Ali, The Comeback of 1980, What If...

[p4p1]

granberry rambles on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

[p4p1]

can i ask you granberry why do you have such a deep hatred of muhammad ali?

[Goodnight, Irene]

He'll never tell

[granberry]

p4 and irene, the women of boxrec, cluster together on this thread.

Their sister, collins, is not far behind.

[HomicideHenry]

I personally would love to see this source as well; I never heard of that before that the Banks fight was stopped on a disputed call by the referee

[granberry]

I personally would love to see this source as well; I never heard of that before that the Banks fight was stopped on a disputed call by the referee

You would probably have never heard the Leonard-Kevin Howard fight was stopped on a disputed call by the referee.

You would probably have never heard the Ali-Ron Lyle fight was stopped on a disputed call by the referee.

You think Walcott did a good job as referee of Liston-Ali II.

You think Goldstein did a good job as ref of Paret-Griffith III.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Gran's sister, RABID, is MIA :(

[Collins2000]

Gran's sister, RABID, is MIA :(

Don't forget "Galt". He suddenly appeared when granberry was being ripped a new arsehole in "the greatest thread ever".

[I Feel Fine]

So, in other words, no source. That's what I thought.

[granberry]

Gran's sister, RABID, is MIA :(

Don't forget "Galt". He suddenly appeared when granberry was being ripped a new arsehole in "the greatest thread ever".

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec,

can't explain this from that very thread:

Granberry-

Good stuff amigo!

-Rick Farris

______________________________________________________

Granberry,

Your information on Yaqui Lopez in Philly, Saad Mahammad, etc. was great!

As an L.A. gym rat, I saw a lot of great wars between legendary Mexican champs, etc. However, Philly has always had this rep for great gym wars, and I was a fan of most of those great Philadelphia middle & welterweights.

This past Oct. we, Dan Hanley & I, interviewed Georgie Benton, who was inducted as a trainer. Unfortunatly, we didn't have the time that need be devoted to such a great source of history. I loved watching Benton fight, not to mention Bennie Briscoe, Harold Johnson, "Kitten" Hayward, Gypsy Joe Harris, etc.

Hopefully, Benton will attend our '08 WBHOF banquet. If so, we'll be prepared to do it as it should be done.

-Rick

______________________________________________________

Rick Farris writes that he would like to interview Georgie Benton.

Benton lost his own career sitting around and waiting.

He was a used as a ‘policeman’ in the overall agenda.

And then his career was over. His years as a fighter were gone.

WHY? Because Carter was supposed to get a title fight (which he then did) and Benton was a dutiful soldier for the people who were controlling things. Carter didn’t belong in the same ring with a fighter like Benton.

This is very interesting. Right after the WBHOF banquet ended last year, most of the boxers & guests, including myself, had rooms at the Hotel. I was with an old friend who helped us conduct the interviews and we went into the bar to have a drink. George Benton, and one of his son's who'd accompanied him, were sitting at the bar.

I took the stool next to Benton and bought he and his son a drink. Earlier in the evening we'd interviewed Benton, and Dan Hanley did a good job despite having no time to prepare. It was one of those on-the-spot things. I jumped in and we pulled a bit more out of George, however, it was what we discussed "off camera" in the bar that validates, in my mind, what you share in the above post.

I won't continue at this moment, as my wife of less than a week has plans for us. I fight with just about anybody, but I don't cross this Brazilian lady.

-Rick

_______________________________________________________

Granberry,

That was one hell of a story, and it makes much more sense now to me as to why he looked so dramatically different in his fight versus Scott who he outclassed and then his poor showing vs Gregory. I never could figure out why he fought the way he did in that fight as that wasn`t his usual style and he threw almost no body punches either which he normaly did. A shame what happened to him as he had a lot of potential and was a very strong guy with a good head on his shoulders, would you happen to know what Jerry is up to these days and how he is doing by any chance?

[Collins2000]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec,

slithers here with her sisters p4, ifeelikeafairy, and irene

Yawn, same shite as usual.

What's your motive for posting here, mate?

No one takes you seriously. Yet you continue posting the same ridiculous material day after day.

It's rather patheric really.

[granberry]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec,

slithers here with her sisters p4, ifeelikeafairy, and irene

Yawn, same shite as usual.

What's your motive for posting here, mate?

No one takes you seriously. Yet you continue posting the same ridiculous material day after day.

It's rather patheric really.

Acutually what is 'patheric' is collins, the feminine snake of boxrec, and her slithering around boxrec with her buddies, snipping at certain others in ad hominem attacks.

Bicker bicker bicker like a group of old women.

That what boxrec amounts to in the eyes of the snake collins, ifeelfine, p4, irene and the rest of their sorry crew.

[Collins2000]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec,

slithers here with her sisters p4, ifeelikeafairy, and irene

Yawn, same shite as usual.

What's your motive for posting here, mate?

No one takes you seriously. Yet you continue posting the same ridiculous material day after day.

It's rather patheric really.

Acutually what is 'patheric' is collins, the feminine snake of boxrec, and her slithering around boxrec with her buddies, snipping at certain others in ad hominem attacks.

Bicker bicker bicker like a group of old women.

That what boxrec amounts to in the eyes of the snake collins, ifeelfine, p4, irene and the rest of their sorry crew.

granberry, now reduced to pointing out typos?

That's patheric!

Hahahahaha, snipping?

Will you be posting in "the greatest thread ever" today?

[Knucklez]

Seems obvious to me.

Granberry was a reporter in the late 60's for some worthless rag that no-one read. he was once at the back of a pack of journalists trying desperately to get close to the great man, his hero - Muhammad Ali.

When eventually he was allowed to ask his question, it was so trivial and uninspired that Ali simply turned and made a mocking, scything comment at Granberry's expense, causing the rest of the crowd to point and laugh at Gran while he slinked off into the shadows.

Since then, he's never been able to forgive the man he idolised, and the memory of that horrible day sits like a broken bottle in his gut.

[BoxBuzz]

Here is a question for boxing "expert" buzz:

WHAT was Clay doing when he got knocked down by Sonny Banks' left hook?
.

Winking at Jayne Mansfield?

FYI Banks was in no shape to continue......




HEre we see beaten up and Broken Jawed, Ali attempting to deliver one his patented pitty pat arm punches on Kenny Norton in a closely fought losing effort against Kenny.

[HomicideHenry]

On a side note, in tribute to Sonny Banks, he died following injuries in his match against Leotis Martin in what was one of the greatest Philadelphia slug fests of all time... ~pours some whiskey on the floor~...

[granberry]

Here is a question for boxing "expert" buzz:

WHAT was Clay doing when he got knocked down by Sonny Banks' left hook?
.

Winking at Jayne Mansfield?

buzz doesn't know the fundamentals of boxing--and he is PROUD of it.

ANSWER my question buzz.

What was Ali doing at the moment he was knocked down by Banks ?

What he was doing is perfectly visible.

[BoxBuzz]

point will be I will say he forgot his fundamentals for a moment and you will say he never knew them.....

[granberry]

point will be I will say he forgot his fundamentals for a moment and you will say he never knew them.....

WHAT DID HE DO, buzz.

Anyone with two eyes can see.

[BoxBuzz]

point will be I will say he forgot his fundamentals for a moment and you will say he never knew them.....

WHAT DID HE DO, buzz.

Anyone with two eyes can see.

So the fact that I only have one eye would keep me from knowing this simple fact? I think not.....and furthermore....I've a mind to knock some sense into you with my glass eye.....believe me one of these things comin' at you from point blank range at 95 miles an hour will do the trick!

[Collins2000]

point will be I will say he forgot his fundamentals for a moment and you will say he never knew them.....

WHAT DID HE DO, buzz.

Anyone with two eyes can see.

So the fact that I only have one eye would keep me from knowing this simple fact? I think not.....and furthermore....I've a mind to knock some sense into you with my glass eye.....believe me one of these things comin' at you from point blank range at 95 miles an hour will do the trick!

You are wasting your time trying good humoured banter with him, mate.

You only have to read his posts in this thread to see the fellow is a total twat with no redeeeming features at all.

Did you see him crying out hysterically for a moderator to come to his aid when I was giving him a dose of his own crap a couple of days ago?

That was fekkin classic.

[BoxBuzz]

Hey I may be called upon to speak to Hugo Chavez and try to talk reason to him. Is there a better place to practice?

[Collins2000]

Hey I may be called upon to speak to Hugo Chavez and try to talk reason to him. Is there a better place to practice?

Good point.

But I am not gonna hold my breath waiting for him to acknowledge your worthiness.

[BoxBuzz]

Hmmm well I think he was being distracted by a pretty woman ringside,

But as you have pointed out before his style along with is arrogance could combine to create that "hole" or "oversight" you make such a big deal of. That makes him on occasion uniquely susceptible to the left hook.

I've never quite bought it....though that may have been a bit of a weakness and those with the best LH's got through on occasion the fact is that he avoided far more than got through. And with Frazier he was of course the best of the best in that dept.

Anyway I know where this goes...Ali's no good, he's an abomination, he had no skills, he was a fraud, he really didnt' care if your kids lived with roaches...yadda yadda yadda.

I'd have to see the Banks film at the moment of KD to know if he was inhaling or exhaling at the time. I suppose I should ask you what Banks was doing at the exact moment that Ali Knocked him down. Would you need to refer to the film? Or does the fact that Ali was knocked down in this fight make it such a sentinel moment that you have memorized every bit of it?

If so it must be painful to see that Banks KD and the finale of the TKO. My condolences to you on that.

And granberry, I really do believe that Ali did not want you livin' with roaches. But that's just one man's opinion.

[joe kurtz]

Instead of facing Holmes, that he had the opprotunity to have faced those he originally planned on facing [Tate and Weaver] and let's say for the hell of it, he also gives Coetzee a crack at him as well.


What are your predictions on these three hypotheticals?

Myself, I see Ali getting bombed out earlier and more brutally than the Holmes encounter in all three of these bouts; let's face it, Coetzee, Weaver and Tate were all big punching guys. I see Tate beating Ali on a TKO in 10, I see Weaver doing it inside of 8 rounds, and I see Coetzee doing the same.

What do you all think?

I've often run this "what if?" scenario through my head over the years as well.

IMO, if Ali & his people had decided to go after the WBA title rather than meeting Holmes on 10/2/80, then he'd have likely suffered a heavier, more severe beating enroute to being stopped by Mike Weaver, but it would have been a shorter fight. Therefore, perhaps the accumulative effects wouldn't have been as bad?

Obviously, there's no way to be sure, but I think that the Ali mystique & the magnitude of the event would have caused Weaver to start off slowly, with him not realizing that Ali had nothing to offer until maybe four or five rounds in. After which, I see him turning up the heat & steamrolling the former three time champ along the ropes until either the ref stops it or the towel's thrown in around the eighth stanza.