Will David Haye become the new Herbie Hide?

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:02

Some comparions here. Both fast, muscular and hard hitting cruiserweights with suspect chins. Hide beefed up and blew away a few heavyweights until he got in with a decent one and came unstuck........will Haye go the same way, lets hope not but I wouldn't be shocked if he did !!

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:11

Could happen If Haye beefs up too much.

Booth sounds more like a personal trainer than a boxing coach, he's just got a talent In Haye that makes him look good.

pasty_spud · Post by **pasty_spud** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:12

good point...but theres no decent heavyweights

Controversial · Post by **Controversial** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:18

pasty_spud wrote:good point...but theres no decent heavyweights

No there's not but it only take one punch from these big guys to end a fight. It will be interesting to see how Haye reacts when he is hit flush with a big punch from a natural heavyweight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:19

pasty_spud wrote:good point...but theres no decent heavyweights

I don't doubt he would beat a peter or Ibragimov type, but someone like Chagaev who can get close and rough you up on the Inside will take away the reach Haye's right hand needs.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:22

Haye's got a suspect chin and he could get taken out with a single shot at heavyweight, but that doesn't make him another Herbie Hide. Hide was a mental midget who fell apart as soon as his opponents fired back. Haye on the other hand has already proven he's got heart and he's much more mentally stable. I don't think he's anything like Herbie Hide.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:31

Hide never passed the acid test like Haye has. Did Hide ever beat anyone ranked in the top20 as a HW? What was his best win 11 fight veteran Bentt or an ancient Tucker? Mormeck and Big mac are better wins than anyone Hide beat

Haye has managed to come back against adversity against Mormeck and prove his heart.

Hides chin may have been terrible at cruser too. He got ko'd by a fat average cruser in Chichango. So why is it assumed Hide goes to cruser and he sudenly has a chin of steel and a heart of a lion?

Does Haye have a china chin? Does Haye have a worse chin than Wlad. Haye was stopped against Thompson BUT Haye had thrown 100punches a round and punched himself out. He was down and hurt against Mormeck but Mormeck can bang is stocky as most HWs. I think Hayes beard is underrated (awaits jokes).

Hide-Big Mac anyone?

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:50

Controversial wrote:Some comparions here. Both fast, muscular and hard hitting cruiserweights with suspect chins. Hide beefed up and blew away a few heavyweights until he got in with a decent one and came unstuck........will Haye go the same way, lets hope not but I wouldn't be shocked if he did !!

2 reasons why Haye will not be the new Hide.

1) Haye is NATURALLY bigger.

2) There are no Riddick Bowe types around now.

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 09 Mar 2008, 07:59

Max Molyneux wrote:Could happen If Haye beefs up too much.

Booth sounds more like a personal trainer than a boxing coach, he's just got a talent In Haye that makes him look good.

Agree. Haye could've made any coach look good - he's just got bundles of talent and any half-decent trainer who knows what he's doing could've taken Haye where he is now. In fact, perhaps a hard taskmaster-type coach might have gripped him from the start and told him to cut out the party life thus taking Haye to greater things earlier. He's had an easy ride under Booth who's let him get away with all the fun stuff etc. Anyone agree?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 08:03

2) There are no Riddick Bowe types around now.

Or Vitali Klitschko.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 09 Mar 2008, 08:03

Boxingmad wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Could happen If Haye beefs up too much.

Booth sounds more like a personal trainer than a boxing coach, he's just got a talent In Haye that makes him look good.
Agree. Haye could've made any coach look good - he's just got bundles of talent and any half-decent trainer who knows what he's doing could've taken Haye where he is now. In fact, perhaps a hard taskmaster-type coach might have gripped him from the start and told him to cut out the party life thus taking Haye to greater things earlier. He's had an easy ride under Booth who's let him get away with all the fun stuff etc. Anyone agree?

Hay is a natural, what he does works so no need change it.

Heavyweight may be an even easier ride without having to starve himself.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Mar 2008, 08:48

Haye has pedigree and power. Comparing him to Hide is a bit insulting. Because Haye has KO'd two world champs in his last 2 fights and has probably earned himself a spot in the lower 10 of the pound for pound rankings.

If Haye faisl at heavyweight, his career has still been a triumph. I think he'll do well.

I'm surprised no one has picked up on this. Could Enzo be the next Herbie? The cruiserweight version of Hide? WBO title, several poor defenses, gets KO'd when he stepped up...

Maybe they could fight each other and find out as PN suggests...Would be exciting.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Mar 2008, 09:27

Better comparison for Haye is Lewis. He is the cruiser equivalent of Lewis. The way he starches bigger guys. Also, seeing Haye break down Mormeck with steady patience and power, I thought a bit of Lewis-Tyson. Haye has a similar pace to Lewis as well and obviously is big for his weight.
Hopefully he wins some heavyweight title fights. If he does, he won't win 16 or so title defenses though.

Haye turned that last fight into a Lewis-Both type murder!

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 09 Mar 2008, 09:30

I always think the arguement about Hayes chin not being good is rather silly. If he gets hit flush on the chin by any good cruiser or HW he will go down but Haye recovered well against Mormek and went on to win. Big men obviously punch hard and its all about covering up well while trying to land a big one. The style Haye has could be his downfall though. Lets put it this way, I wouldnt fancy his chances against Chagaev.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 09 Mar 2008, 12:59

Max Molyneux wrote:
pasty_spud wrote:good point...but theres no decent heavyweights
I don't doubt he would beat a peter or Ibragimov type, but someone like Chagaev who can get close and rough you up on the Inside will take away the reach Haye's right hand needs.

Yeah, well you've also been spouting off for weeks about how Enzo Maccarinelli would take David Haye apart. When, in reality, you couldn't have been any more wrong. You're not exactly Nostradamus when it comes to these thinks are you?

As for Haye/Hide comparisons...whatever Haye achieves at HW, he's already achieved more in his career than Herbie Hide ever did. He's the undisputed and unified cruiserweight champion of the world.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:07

Eraserhead wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
pasty_spud wrote:good point...but theres no decent heavyweights
I don't doubt he would beat a peter or Ibragimov type, but someone like Chagaev who can get close and rough you up on the Inside will take away the reach Haye's right hand needs.
Yeah, well you've also been spouting off for weeks about how Enzo Maccarinelli would take David Haye apart. When, in reality, you couldn't have been any more wrong. You're not exactly Nostradamus when it comes to these thinks are you?

So what? Doesn't everyone make a wrong prediction.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the Heavyweight bit though, some of you fans are terrible and will say any shit for the sake of It.

Fighters who have got on the Inside of Haye have taken him to later rounds which doesn't give him the chance to land his big right. It wasn't till Haye got his distance that he sparked Mormeck with that big right and was In trouble when JMM got close.

His bending down when throwing It will make It harder for him to touch taller HW's too.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:12

Max Molyneux wrote:
Eraserhead wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: I don't doubt he would beat a peter or Ibragimov type, but someone like Chagaev who can get close and rough you up on the Inside will take away the reach Haye's right hand needs.
Yeah, well you've also been spouting off for weeks about how Enzo Maccarinelli would take David Haye apart. When, in reality, you couldn't have been any more wrong. You're not exactly Nostradamus when it comes to these thinks are you?

So what? Doesn't everyone make a wrong prediction.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the Heavyweight bit though, some of you fans are terrible and will say any shit for the sake of It.

Fighters who have got on the Inside of Haye have taken him to later rounds which doesn't give him the chance to land his big right. It wasn't till Haye got his distance that he sparked Mormeck with that big right and was In trouble when JMM got close.

His bending down when throwing It will make It harder for him to touch taller HW's too.

Wrong predictions are fine - it just amuses me how you were almost trying to persuade yourself that Enzo would win out of sheer dislike for Haye. It's clear you don't like the WBC/WBA/WBO/Ring Mag champion of the world.

Even now - when you've been exposed a little and are clearly hurting - you're finding ways to criticise the future of British boxing, a guy who's pretty much just done what it took Calzaghe and Hatton 40-odd fights to accomplish.

What's there to hate? He does everything we, as fans, want.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:18

I think the more apt question is: "Is David Haye the new Naseem Hamed".
In both cases you're talking about exciting, charismatic world champions with phenomenal punching power.
And in both cases you're talking about the inherent danger in their approach. Naseem's increasing reliance on his power led to him neglecting his undoubted boxing skills in the quest for single-shot KOs and based on Haye's performances to date and his references to his power (including in the interview last night), I'm concerned that he will also rely too much on his power and neglect his boxing skills as his career develops and will consequently come unstuck when he comes up against someone who can negate that power, either through a fantastic chin or evasive skills.
There aren't many all-time great fighters in the history of boxing who were known purely for their one-punch power and if Haye is to reach his goals I think he needs to recognise he's not going to be able blast every single one of his opponents out of there in the same fashion as last night.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:19

I did say I am a fan of Haye and Maccarinelli before the fight, just because I picked Enzo doesn't mean I don't like him.

I picked Enzo because of the way he looked tired In the Mormeck fight and was taking straight shots too much and didn't show his speed and reflexes. He was clearly better last night than the Mormeck fight and showed the same speed and movement he had for the Gurov.

You are clearly stupid and for some reason making shit up. Making a wrong pick doesn't mean I'm hating on someone.

He won last night doesn't mean I can't say he might lose to whoever at HW, HW's not Cruiserweight where he Is great at.

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:25

Max Molyneux wrote:
Eraserhead wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: I don't doubt he would beat a peter or Ibragimov type, but someone like Chagaev who can get close and rough you up on the Inside will take away the reach Haye's right hand needs.
Yeah, well you've also been spouting off for weeks about how Enzo Maccarinelli would take David Haye apart. When, in reality, you couldn't have been any more wrong. You're not exactly Nostradamus when it comes to these thinks are you?

So what? Doesn't everyone make a wrong prediction.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the Heavyweight bit though, some of you fans are terrible and will say any shit for the sake of It.

Fighters who have got on the Inside of Haye have taken him to later rounds which doesn't give him the chance to land his big right. It wasn't till Haye got his distance that he sparked Mormeck with that big right and was In trouble when JMM got close.

His bending down when throwing It will make It harder for him to touch taller HW's too.

I think the taller heavyweights suit Haye, not many of them over 6ft 4 - Gurov was 6ft 5 and he was reached easily.

Haye likes the taller fighters - much easier for him.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:43

Would someone as tall as Valuev suit him?

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:50

Wouldn't compair him (or enzo for that matter) to Hide. Centeral to Hide's failings as a fighter were not his chin but his attitude and lack of disipline. Haye's attitude is 100s of times better.

The most exciting thing about this fight was it was the old and new training methods in boxing realy tested against one another and modern tequneacs won out. Says a lot and will hopfully give other trainers a kick up the arse.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:53

Max Molyneux wrote:Would someone as tall as Valuev suit him?

Valuev is a physical freak and would always be difficult for any HW to fight. However he is soft enough round the middle for haye to realy be able to rough him up with some good boddy shots. I could see Haye cutting him in half.

Hopfuly Haye will get Rahman out and we'll learn a lot about his chances at HW from that fight.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:54

How about Vladimir Virchis? Granite chin and heavy hands.

Limited boxing ability though.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:10

Terry D wrote:
DG. wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote: So what? Doesn't everyone make a wrong prediction.

Doesn't mean I'm wrong about the Heavyweight bit though, some of you fans are terrible and will say any shit for the sake of It.

Fighters who have got on the Inside of Haye have taken him to later rounds which doesn't give him the chance to land his big right. It wasn't till Haye got his distance that he sparked Mormeck with that big right and was In trouble when JMM got close.

His bending down when throwing It will make It harder for him to touch taller HW's too.
I think the taller heavyweights suit Haye, not many of them over 6ft 4 - Gurov was 6ft 5 and he was reached easily.

Haye likes the taller fighters - much easier for him.

Yep, he hammers stiff straight-up fighters. He will slaughter Wlad in my opinion

I think we have to be careful not to go overboard in the wake of last night's victory. Beating Mormeck remains Haye's most impressive victory to date in my opinion, as Enzo was over-hyped IMO.
Whatever Vlad's weaknesses, he's got huge size advantages, a hell of a jab and that combined with the way he fights 'scared' at the moment means he's going to be difficult to 'chin-check'. Let's also not forget that Haye can be caught with right hands and Vlad carries some serious, serious power with this shot.

Will David Haye become the new Herbie Hide?

Will David Haye become the new Herbie Hide?

Re: Will David Haye become the new Herbie Hide?