Next for Haye? Opinions

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 13:52

Tua? Someone who's short but a natural HW whos clearly stronger than the short Cruisers who gave Haye problems.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:02

If he beats Rahman there will be no one who doesn't believe he is the real deal. My prefference would be to stop off at European level first fighting the winner of Skelton Samm. If its the former Warren would probably like a last oppertunity to milk some money out of the aging cash cow with an all London fight against Haye who has more and more of a name hear and state side after last night.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:02

He should fight 3 times a year at minimum.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:04

leforge wrote:He should fight 3 times a year at minimum.

Well If he wants to retire at 30 he should but he will fight twice a year at best.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:10

leforge wrote:He should fight 3 times a year at minimum.

He's taking 6 months off to get his body in shape according to Buncy and then I imagen he'll fight in sept and probably december if he can, I think he was better because of the intensaty of his activity in the run up to this fight, i.e. going from one training regime to the next.

The_Don1 · Post by **The_Don1** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:27

I remember him saying after he beat Mormeck that the WBA would fast track him to a title shot at heavyweight if he moved up, I'd expect him to be challenging for that title in a at least his 2nd fight at heavy, if not his first as he seems very confident about moving up.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:33

Kali Meehan he no 4 with WBA , Rahman 11wba, Moorer 6 wba, Bidenko 5 wba all winnable fights

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Mar 2008, 14:59

josh fg wrote:If he beats Rahman there will be no one who doesn't believe he is the real deal. My prefference would be to stop off at European level first fighting the winner of Skelton Samm. If its the former Warren would probably like a last oppertunity to milk some money out of the aging cash cow with an all London fight against Haye who has more and more of a name hear and state side after last night.

European route worked very well at cruiser. You'd think with all the Eastern European heavies that Haye might do the same. However, just past it Americans without powerful promoters would be easier to get fights with.

glahn · Post by **glahn** » 09 Mar 2008, 15:34

If he's going the WBA route he'd better hope that Chagaev beats Valuev in the rematch, because Valuev would be just about the toughest fight for him at heavyweight, styles-wise. Maybe even moreso than Wlad.

fist · Post by **fist** » 09 Mar 2008, 16:19

I dont know, Haye still doesnt really impress me that much. He just looks vulnerable to the KO. Maybe thats the few wobbles he has had on the way and the KO from Carl. Plus Ive never ever been impressed with his stamina. Just feel that he is BEATABLE at Cruiser and well at heavy, god knows. I detest the HW scene, bores me to death, so Haye may make it interesting for a while, but it will only be interesting if there is some real competition for him.

He's got plenty of bang and good speed. And credit for the performance last night, though part of me feels that Enzo didnt do himself any favours.

As a boxing personality I dont like David Haye, he's arrogant.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 09 Mar 2008, 16:23

I knew if Haye won there be people saying Enzo was no good. Haye won't make at heavy. Lets weight and see and get behind a very talented fighter.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 09 Mar 2008, 16:36

Like I say, regardless of what happens at heavyweight (and I think he'll win a belt), Haye has done more than most British world champs. 22 fights and he's fought Carl Thompson, Al Gurov, JM Mormeck and Enzo Macca, winning 3 of 4, vs top 10 fighters. Scored spectacular early KOs and proven he can get up and break a fighter down in systematic fashion. Winning Euro, WBA, WBC, and WBO belts. Winning a major title fight away from home, AND winning a big all UK bout before a massive crowd.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 09 Mar 2008, 16:54

Autobarn wrote:Like I say, regardless of what happens at heavyweight (and I think he'll win a belt), Haye has done more than most British world champs. 22 fights and he's fought Carl Thompson, Al Gurov, JM Mormeck and Enzo Macca, winning 3 of 4, vs top 10 fighters. Scored spectacular early KOs and proven he can get up and break a fighter down in systematic fashion. Winning Euro, WBA, WBC, and WBO belts. Winning a major title fight away from home, AND winning a big all UK bout before a massive crowd.

Its a tidy little resume for a loud mouth chinny bragard, wouldn't you say?

Some people might find Haye's personality a little prickly but at least he backs up his mouth, takes on genuine challenges and excites the paying public.

You can't say fairer than that in my book.

fist · Post by **fist** » 09 Mar 2008, 17:11

Autobarn wrote:Like I say, regardless of what happens at heavyweight (and I think he'll win a belt), Haye has done more than most British world champs. 22 fights and he's fought Carl Thompson, Al Gurov, JM Mormeck and Enzo Macca, winning 3 of 4, vs top 10 fighters. Scored spectacular early KOs and proven he can get up and break a fighter down in systematic fashion. Winning Euro, WBA, WBC, and WBO belts. Winning a major title fight away from home, AND winning a big all UK bout before a massive crowd.

Its not bad mate, but I still think he has been hugely inactive since turning pro. Its not as if any of the cruiser lot would ever be pound for pound contenders, so even though he's done great to capture the belts, I'm still not overly impressed. I think he is vulnerable to the KO and has crap stamina. The plus side is his speed and power. I give the bloke credit but personally he doesnt do it for me. He never seemed passionate about the sport till recent times and still goes on about leaving in two and a half years, this from a man who in recent years has been averaging just a couple of fights a year. Dont really rate him Im afraid in terms of all time british greats. Nope, he has a lot to do and even then he'll only be up against crap opposition in possibly the worst division. Just my thoughts.

sendo · Post by **sendo** » 09 Mar 2008, 17:38

I don't agree that cruiser is a crap division right now, it's a good one and has been for the last 2 years. A good mix of fighting styles, one clear champ in Mormeck (now Haye) and a large pool of contenders made up of previous champs or young up and comers.

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 09 Mar 2008, 22:59

I think fighting a British HW would be stupid and unneccesary for David Haye. We already know that none of them are any better than moderately good European fighters, what would he prove by beating Matt bloody Skelton? No disrespect to Skelton, but what is the point? Would be like Calzaghe having a tune up at Light Heavy by fighting Tony Oakey - no-one would give a shit.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 10 Mar 2008, 05:17

You know what promotion I see comeing soon? Haye versus Valuev, promoted as, wait for it: David versus Goliath.

How good would that be??

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Mar 2008, 06:34

fist wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Like I say, regardless of what happens at heavyweight (and I think he'll win a belt), Haye has done more than most British world champs. 22 fights and he's fought Carl Thompson, Al Gurov, JM Mormeck and Enzo Macca, winning 3 of 4, vs top 10 fighters. Scored spectacular early KOs and proven he can get up and break a fighter down in systematic fashion. Winning Euro, WBA, WBC, and WBO belts. Winning a major title fight away from home, AND winning a big all UK bout before a massive crowd.
Its not bad mate, but I still think he has been hugely inactive since turning pro. Its not as if any of the cruiser lot would ever be pound for pound contenders, so even though he's done great to capture the belts, I'm still not overly impressed. I think he is vulnerable to the KO and has crap stamina. The plus side is his speed and power. I give the bloke credit but personally he doesnt do it for me. He never seemed passionate about the sport till recent times and still goes on about leaving in two and a half years, this from a man who in recent years has been averaging just a couple of fights a year. Dont really rate him Im afraid in terms of all time british greats. Nope, he has a lot to do and even then he'll only be up against crap opposition in possibly the worst division. Just my thoughts.

Regardless of stamina, I think he's a big bloke for his weight (cruiser) and big blokes often can't fight at massive pace ala Lewis up at heavyweight. So yu use size, skill and power instead which Haye has in abundance.

I think Macca was really coming on as a pro and at very least he offered a big punch. Gurov was a big, skilled southpaw (if vulnerable). Mormeck was good at applying pressure, even if his stamina lets him down late. To knock all 3 out is impressive IMO. Reminiscent of Lewis doing guys like Ruddock, Golota, Grant -guys whom many had touted to chin him.

I think Haye's output will be better up at heavyweight, even though we don't have more than 1 round of proof. if he's at a comfortable weight, then his output should increase. I don't know, I just thought he looked more "vibrant" in the Bonin (and Delaney) fights.

Let's look at cruiser. It has been a bit of a "bruiser's" division of recent years with hard bastards lie Carl Thompson, Kelvin Davis, Sebastian Rothmann, O'Neil Bell, Wayne Braithwaite and Jean Marc Mormeck. Some of these guys are fearsome sluggers. (Let's not forget Macca beat one of these guys, which IMO helps validate Mac. Mormeck is a two-time unified champ, etc.)

You'd have to say haye represents the skill and class of the division; that's why he's the champ.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 10 Mar 2008, 06:37

Considering how well Skelton performed against Chagaev, I think he would be a very awkward foe for Haye
I think Haye's results at HW will be mixed - he'll almost definitely get knocked out somewhere along the line because of his sloppy defence and less than stellar chin.
His best bet for a title would have been against Maskaev, but that route has gone now. I think Peter would be too strong for Haye, likewise Klitschko although Haye would have a punchers chance against Vlad. His best chance would be a WBA title shot against Chageav, a smaller heavyweight and someone nearer his size.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Mar 2008, 06:43

jeej wrote:I think fighting a British HW would be stupid and unneccesary for David Haye. We already know that none of them are any better than moderately good European fighters, what would he prove by beating Matt bloody Skelton? No disrespect to Skelton, but what is the point? Would be like Calzaghe having a tune up at Light Heavy by fighting Tony Oakey - no-one would give a shit.

well said, they can fight one another, the UK heavies. if anyone can be arsed to promote the fights!

Would love to see Haye v Greenberg just for starters. Could be a decent cash in for Roman. It's obvious his matchmakers have avoided conflict but can they turn down the cash? I'd just like this in a way I'd like Haye-Hide, as a kind of crazy attraction.

I think they should allow the world scene to run its course a bit. Chag has Valuev as a mandatory. Wlad could be trying to get a Valuev fight. Wlad won't unify with Peter - he's leaving Vitali the chance. Wlad also will have to fight Povetkin later this year. I see some of these older guys losing a lot of mileage in hard fights.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Mar 2008, 06:47

dr_devious wrote:Considering how well Skelton performed against Chagaev, I think he would be a very awkward foe for Haye
I think Haye's results at HW will be mixed - he'll almost definitely get knocked out somewhere along the line because of his sloppy defence and less than stellar chin.
His best bet for a title would have been against Maskaev, but that route has gone now. I think Peter would be too strong for Haye, likewise Klitschko although Haye would have a punchers chance against Vlad. His best chance would be a WBA title shot against Chageav, a smaller heavyweight and someone nearer his size.

I do think Haye's speed has been downplayed a bit. Surely that low left allows him to jab faster, and at heavy he'll have extra energy levels to maybe throw more? Also, take into account the slowness of most heavies...

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 10 Mar 2008, 06:54

fist wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Like I say, regardless of what happens at heavyweight (and I think he'll win a belt), Haye has done more than most British world champs. 22 fights and he's fought Carl Thompson, Al Gurov, JM Mormeck and Enzo Macca, winning 3 of 4, vs top 10 fighters. Scored spectacular early KOs and proven he can get up and break a fighter down in systematic fashion. Winning Euro, WBA, WBC, and WBO belts. Winning a major title fight away from home, AND winning a big all UK bout before a massive crowd.
Its not bad mate, but I still think he has been hugely inactive since turning pro. Its not as if any of the cruiser lot would ever be pound for pound contenders, so even though he's done great to capture the belts, I'm still not overly impressed. I think he is vulnerable to the KO and has crap stamina. The plus side is his speed and power. I give the bloke credit but personally he doesnt do it for me. He never seemed passionate about the sport till recent times and still goes on about leaving in two and a half years, this from a man who in recent years has been averaging just a couple of fights a year. Dont really rate him Im afraid in terms of all time british greats. Nope, he has a lot to do and even then he'll only be up against crap opposition in possibly the worst division. Just my thoughts.

Interestingly, Holyfied didn't have that many fights either. I think if you make it to championship level early (Haye was EBU champ end of 2005-end of 2006; that's 3, 4 yrs in his career) and then when you get the world titles ppl do slow down their schedules.

I wish world champs would fight more, as Kelly Pavlik is planning on hving another 3 defenses of his title this year!

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 10 Mar 2008, 07:34

Next for David Haye - it will be a "named" heavyweight in the world's top ten - my personal choice would be Hasin Rahman.

But don't be surprised if someone like Matt Skelton is brought into the equation - or dare anyone say it - and lets go for a mad choice - Audley Harrison.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 10 Mar 2008, 09:15

It won't be next but lets hope hes fast tracked to face WBA Champ Chageav whos looking very beatable.

I can see them going for ex-WBA champ Ruiz who doesn't have anywhere else to go. And if he blasts out Ruiz he'll be a hero

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 10 Mar 2008, 09:31

He'll want a know commodity, slow, tall and cumbersome to look sensational against.

He wont want any short-armed, short ass punchers or grab and huggers.

So no Brewster, McCall, Tua, Toney or Ruiz etc.

Rahman is a decent shout, but both Tony Thompson and Evander Holyfield have their advantages too.

Either ranking or renown.

Remember, we're talking about a Sep-Nov fight, the heavyweight picture could be very different by then. Povetkin could need recycling by then.

But the second tier of Americans; Brock, Chambers, Guinn etc could all provide amply opp for a medicore return.