HAYE: THE AMERICAN VIEW

[Deserter]

Well, Doug Fischer of Maxboxing's at least:

"I was impressed with Haye. I thought that cruiserweight showdown was an even fight going in and he blasted Maccarinelli out like the Welsh title holder was a novice. I don’t give him much of a shot at toppling one of the top five heavyweights, but I’d like to see him try."

Just goes to show that it's so difficult to be objective in boxing - we've got a lot of cheerleaders for Haye in the wake of the weekend's stunning performance, and many are predicting he'd be able to take Vlad.
But just for one second imagine roles reversed - imagine if Vlad was a Brit and Haye was an up-and-coming cruiser/heavy of another nationality? Would we feel that our 'Vlad' was likely to get knocked out by this guy, or would we be pointing out to size disparity, weak chin etc?
I think Haye's definitely got more potential at heavy than Doug Fischer seems to think, but I think we also have to display caution given he's still a complete unknown quantity as a heavyweight, bar his power.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Trying to be objective, I would definitely still have worries for 'Our Wlad' but would realise as I do now that it would probably be a case of who lands first.

[Wales]

Maybe, but is it not feasible Wlad avoids haye enough to pick up a points win.

Also, is it Vlad in Russian and Wlad in English? I always say Wlad, as in Wladamir (i.e his billing) but I often see people say Vlad... ?

[Spud]

I think Haye beats Chageav every day of the week.

The Wladimir Klitschko fight is very very interesting indeed - lets face it if Haye were to land - Wlad has not got a very good record of staying on his feet.

Would Haye have the skills and the speed to get inside the Klitschko jab?? therein lies the result of the fight.

[punchers chance]

Also, is it Vlad in Russian and Wlad in English? I always say Wlad, as in Wladamir (i.e his billing) but I often see people say Vlad... ?

The 'W' is always pronounced as 'V' in German & when he was based there he was promoted as 'Wladimir', which seems to have stuck as the western spelling.

The Ukrainian spelling of his first name, in English letters, is Volodymyr, but the pronunciation is 'Vladimir'.

[MightyWarrior]

Tend to agree Haye is going to have trouble at heavy, easy to forget, with his eye popping wins, that his chin is just not too sturdy. It's not a weakness that just goes away, as we saw with Enzo.

He'll catch a few of the less sturdy heavies and wack em out in style, but I'm sure he'll come a cropper, probably when we least expect it as well.

It'll likely be against some sturdy enough journeyman type, in a warm up, and DH will get shockingly flattened.

Best to dive in with the big fights asap for DH I reckon.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Haye's best chance would come a-la Corrie Sanders, with early round blowouts.

Most big heavies take a while to Warm up, and Haye is a fast starter, and for a heavyweight will have blinding speed.

His problem will come against someone like Wlad who can jab at range. If Haye could get close enough, I think he possibly has the power to shock the big man, but one solid clump for Wlad and I think Haye will be 'doing a Macca.'

[Asterix]

Also, is it Vlad in Russian and Wlad in English? I always say Wlad, as in Wladamir (i.e his billing) but I often see people say Vlad... ?

I think it's just people spelling his name phonetically. Hopefully they'll read this topic and start spelling it with a W from now on.

Haye can give any Heavyweight trouble, so it will be interesting to see whether or not he can make the impact I think he will, which is him being a top 3 heavyweight.

[knockout]

I think Haye would have a punchers chance against Wlad for sure... we all know it doesnt take much to unravel him and Hayes speed will give him as good a chance as anyone to catch Wlad on the chin...

The other side of the coin is as James suggests, he gets caught himself by the ukranian. His speed and reflexes should help him avoid getting caught most of the time but Wlad has fast hands.

It could be another case of who lands first winning

[DG.]

Trying to be objective, I would definitely still have worries for 'Our Wlad' but would realise as I do now that it would probably be a case of who lands first.

Agree!

Especially if 'Our Wlad' was scared of his own shadow as someone mentioned on another thread!

[DG.]

Also, is it Vlad in Russian and Wlad in English? I always say Wlad, as in Wladamir (i.e his billing) but I often see people say Vlad... ?

The 'W' is always pronounced as 'V' in German & when he was based there he was promoted as 'Wladimir', which seems to have stuck as the western spelling.

The Ukrainian spelling of his first name, in English letters, is Volodymyr, but the pronunciation is 'Vladimir'.

Yes - watch any Eurosport and hear them say

VBO!

[Autobarn]

I have a feeling that if Wlad fights Valuev -which has apparently been talked about -there is a chance he could fall apart vs the 7' plus giant. Sure, Wlad technically outclasses him, but he would have to use energy to keep him off.

Now, I am saying this with some certainty: Wlad will not be around as champion when Haye has beaten a handful of contenders in the next 18 or 24 months.

HBO want Wlad-Peter. Money talks. Wlad says he's leaving that fight for his brother but if this fight is made it could harm Wlad. He's been dropped by Fat Peter several times before.

The excellent Alexander Povetkin is the top IBF contender. It's my belief that if you're good enough, you can negate size. Wlad has size but nothing behind it - no fighting spirit, no confidence. Wlad has to fight Povetkin in the next 6 or 7 months.

And obviously, if this Wlad-Valuev fight ever happens...Wlad has feet of clay and I don't think I'm doing anything radical here claiming he's going to get put away or turned into damaged goods.


Haye could be coming in at the right time. Povetkin, old ama rival Solis, Chagaev is decent with the WBA title...These guys are all about 6' 3, 225-30 at best (take note Solis!), not far off Haye's ideal weight/ and his height. Things could get good all of a sudden. Haye's long range skills remind me of Lewis (though he won't have Lewis-size at heavy). Povetkin's will and drive remind me of Holyfield. etc etc

[Lenny]

Haye's best chance would come a-la Corrie Sanders, with early round blowouts.

Most big heavies take a while to Warm up, and Haye is a fast starter, and for a heavyweight will have blinding speed.

His problem will come against someone like Wlad who can jab at range. If Haye could get close enough, I think he possibly has the power to shock the big man, but one solid clump for Wlad and I think Haye will be 'doing a Macca.'

One big difference in my opinion though is when Haye had Enzo hurt that was it, he started unloading with right hands and once again showed his finishing ability. Wlad doesn't do this against heavyweights with average power, I can see him hurting Haye and letting him off the hook. If Haye is aggresive against Wlad I can really see him scaring the shit out of the big Ukrainian. Big if, but if a decent hitting heavy can get past the jab, straight right combo, Wlad is there for the taking

In saying this I would still favour Klitchko, but not confidently

[Deserter]

Well, Doug Fischer of Maxboxing's at least:

"I was impressed with Haye. I thought that cruiserweight showdown was an even fight going in and he blasted Maccarinelli out like the Welsh title holder was a novice. I don’t give him much of a shot at toppling one of the top five heavyweights, but I’d like to see him try."

Just goes to show that it's so difficult to be objective in boxing - we've got a lot of cheerleaders for Haye in the wake of the weekend's stunning performance, and many are predicting he'd be able to take Vlad.
But just for one second imagine roles reversed - imagine if Vlad was a Brit and Haye was an up-and-coming cruiser/heavy of another nationality? Would we feel that our 'Vlad' was likely to get knocked out by this guy, or would we be pointing out to size disparity, weak chin etc?
I think Haye's definitely got more potential at heavy than Doug Fischer seems to think, but I think we also have to display caution given he's still a complete unknown quantity as a heavyweight, bar his power.

Objectively, subjectively, any way you take it Wlad is a pretty poor fighter all round. Sure he has long arms and can grab well these days but is that the best we are hoping for?

Forget size, feel the quality. If we had a Louis, Marciano, Liston or their ilk I'd give them a great chance versus Wlad simply because he has been over more times than Burton-Liz and he is not very good. No axe-grinding of any kind, he struggled with Will Ferrell and looked terrified.

Vlad (Wlad?) is definitely a bit gun-shy, but his size and athleticism still make him an incredibly difficult proposition for anyone out there at the moment.
You don't have a body of work like he has, and just post a shut-out against a rival world champ from being a "pretty poor fighter". Vulnerable? Yes. Poor? No.
Solis, mentioned elsewhere, is definitely one to watch.

[Asterix]

Vlad (Wlad?)

Wlad has a W, Vitali has a V.

[yiddo14]

Being a tad harsh on Wlad here I feel.

He has plenty more than just size.
For starters, no one in Boxing hits harder.
When his feet are planted and he is looking to finish, he hits harder than anyone out there right now.

Granted, his confidence has taken a battering over the past 3 years or so, but he is slowly regaining it.
Add his ramrod jab and very good footwork for such a big fella and we have a pretty formidable fighter.

I think he will destroy Peter if and when they rematch.
Their first fight and Peter's subsequent heavy knockdowns against McCline will only give Wlad confidence.

Povetkin is a good fighter, but he is tailor made for Wlad. He also lacks the power to take Wlad out with a single shot.

I honestly believe if Wlad is to lose over the next 2 or 3 years, the man to put money on to beat him is David Haye.
Haye has the speed, skill and most important of all, the devastating knockout power to take Wlad out.
I would still favour Wlad over Haye should they ever meet, mainly because of my reservations over Haye's chin and stamina(Wlad has never come close to being outboxed by the way)and of just how hard Wlad can hit, but I would not be suprised to see Haye take him out in explosiv style.

Wlad is under-rated and a very good Heavyweight, who could dominate for some time to come.

[Max Molyneux]

Wlad will seriously hurt Haye, he's being taken too lightly here because of the Ibragimov fight.

Haye will have serious problems dropping the hands then stepping In to throw the straight right. Klitschko's very strong as well and will hold him alot. He will keep going forward Imposing himself on Haye with the straights and Klitschko's straights are very powerful.

Klits not much of an uppercut guy but timed right, I think Haye could be countered with the uppercut as he tries that bend low and stepping In throwing the right.

[Shirow]

It seems there are only 2 ways to beat Wlad either rush him or soak up punishment & outlast him.
It seems that Manny hasn't tried to improve his mindset just worked out a style that works within his post Corrie limitations. Great accuracy, powerful single shots, carefully maintained balance and tying up on the inside. None of things would have saved him against Corrie's speed attack and if anyone can emulate that it's Haye.

I'm not going overboard though but things will be more interesting with Haye at HW.

[steve689]

Doug Fischer...the man with the wild scorecards who sounds like Joe Goossen mixed with a hairdresser?! Not convinced by his opinions at the best of times, but he has a point when it comes to Klitschko-Haye.

[rhino222]

I think Haye beats Chageav every day of the week.

The Wladimir Klitschko fight is very very interesting indeed - lets face it if Haye were to land - Wlad has not got a very good record of staying on his feet.

Would Haye have the skills and the speed to get inside the Klitschko jab?? therein lies the result of the fight.

but klitschko does not stay down, he gets up again, would haye be able to drop him the 4 or 5 times needed to beat him, without wladimir landing his own bomb.

[DavidPayne]

Klitschko showed heart and courage to get up against Peter, one timid performance doesn't make him a coward.

Haye still has lots to do. Lets keep a context on his potential.

Maccarinelli is a good guy and an improved fighter, but he hangs his chin out and was overawed by the occasion, he also lacks prime quality on his resume. Braithwaite and Hobson were good, good fighters and Dominguez is no mug bu to be fair he was a leading contender at the weight save for the current fractured title nonsense and struggles to weigh more than 14 stone.

Revisionism? Not really, over-hyped beforehand? Possibly.

Haye is a terrific talent, refreshingly ambitious and honest and it is undoubtedly true the heavyweight picture is pretty mediocre but he still has much to do to.

Suddenly he walks through Wlad, Peter et al, who will be taller, heavier, further away and hit harder than Mormeck, who dropped him or Macca who cut and shook him.

I cant wait to watch him try and I applaud his attitude.

But I still need to see him beat a top tenner.

Were he to upend a Ruiz, Rahman or similar, then I really would be jumping on board but he has work to do yet.

[DavidPayne]

Saying Brewster "walked through" Wlad doesn't quite tell the story of the fight.

Had Haye been the one taking Wlad's shots that night he wouldn't have made it to the third. True, Wlad wouldn't have hit him as easy but Brewster, who I really like because of that performance and one or two others, took a shellacking for four rounds before Wlad collapsed.

Wlad isn't Lewis, I'll grant you. But he has shown he can suck it up and he has shown he can box.

Look I'm not trying to be the only guy bigging up these big lumps. They're quite big enough, but come on, Mormeck hit Haye with right hands over the left repeatedly despite being shorter, shorter of arm and not a big puncher.

He gives Rahman that chance or Wlad and one would assume Haye could have significant problems.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Terry, I concur with much of what you are saying. I believe that maybe Wlad will be a little better in his next fight, perhaps the occasion got to him and made him overly cautious, though he's never going to exactly be Arturo Gatti in there.

One cavet I would make, is that it's going to be odd for Haye to be conceding both height, weight and reach advantages for the first time.

Wlad is not the easiest to tag these days, he puts his weight on the back foot and leans away from shots, then ties up on the inside. It's a boring strategy, but it seems to be hard to negate.

Haye could be a younger version of Sanders at heavyweight, but I think Wlad now has learned tactics which would have allowed him to survive the Sanders fight.

[Spud]

I think Haye beats Chageav every day of the week.

The Wladimir Klitschko fight is very very interesting indeed - lets face it if Haye were to land - Wlad has not got a very good record of staying on his feet.

Would Haye have the skills and the speed to get inside the Klitschko jab?? therein lies the result of the fight.

but klitschko does not stay down, he gets up again, would haye be able to drop him the 4 or 5 times needed to beat him, without wladimir landing his own bomb.

I think you are underestimating the power of Hayes punch at heavyweight.

Look what he did to Bonin - yes yes I know Bonin is not one of the top boys but nonetheless he seems to have done okayish.

Took Mr Harrison 9 rounds to bomb him out.

[nickd]

In his previous match Bonin was knocked down by a guy making his debut who had absolutely no skill whatsoever. Let's not go overboard on that, any world class Heavy with a dig would put Bonin away in no time.