UK Top 5

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:45

Put your UK top 5 in order.

Does David Haye deserve to be in your top 5 - if so where?

Here's mine

1 - Joe Calzaghe
2 - David Haye
3 - Ricky Hatton
4 - Clinton Woods
5 - Junior Witter

Note: Depending on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins depends on whether he stays at No1 - in addition if Clinton beats Tarver then in my book he proves his status in the top echelons of the Light Heavyweight division and duely goes above Hatton.

Big Pussy · Post by **Big Pussy** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:51

1. Calzaghe
2. Hatton
3. Haye
4. Witter

And then a bit of distance to the next one
5. Woods

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:53

Big Pussy wrote:1. Calzaghe
2. Hatton
3. Haye
4. Witter

And then a bit of distance to the next one
5. Woods

Why Hatton above Haye?

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:54

Because Hatton has won more fights at top level and only lost to the greatest fighter on the planet!!

Hayes superb though, he will be Number 1 way after the others are running the local pub

Big Pussy · Post by **Big Pussy** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:57

Hatton has proven himself as a champion against a P4Per Zoo, Massua, Collazo, Urango and Castillo. Two weight champion and has been on the top of the game for years.

I rate Haye but he only beat Mormeck in December!! Let's see how he does against the heavies before putting him any higher

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 08:57

thepocketrocket wrote:Because Hatton has won more fights at top level and only lost to the greatest fighter on the planet!!

Hayes superb though, he will be Number 1 way after the others are running the local pub

He got a thorough beating from the top fighter in the planet - and yes there is no shame in that - but a lot of people will argue whether Hatton has proved to be the best fighter in his division - both Haye and Calzaghe have.

Big Pussy · Post by **Big Pussy** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:03

Spud wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:Because Hatton has won more fights at top level and only lost to the greatest fighter on the planet!!

Hayes superb though, he will be Number 1 way after the others are running the local pub
He got a thorough beating from the top fighter in the planet - and yes there is no shame in that - but a lot of people will argue whether Hatton has proved to be the best fighter in his division - both Haye and Calzaghe have.

Disagree. Hatton is regarded as the man at LWW. If you are thinking about Witter for Hatton you could argue Cunningham for Haye!

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:06

Spud wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:Because Hatton has won more fights at top level and only lost to the greatest fighter on the planet!!

Hayes superb though, he will be Number 1 way after the others are running the local pub
He got a thorough beating from the top fighter in the planet - and yes there is no shame in that - but a lot of people will argue whether Hatton has proved to be the best fighter in his division - both Haye and Calzaghe have.

Of course hes the best Light-Welter, hes beaten the Linear champ and beaten other belt holders..dont make this a 'Hattons ducking Witter' thread...I think we have enough of those!! lol

I want Haye to succeed, hes a star in the making and IF his chin holds up against the Heavies we could have a new era(though Chagaev may ice him)

But he is in no way higher than Hatton at the moment, it could be argued that Mormeck was OOOOLD and Enzo was a hype job..im not going to say that as it could be running him down but hayes career has just started, he could end up being better thatn Hatton and Joe..but not yet

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:11

Big Pussy wrote:
Spud wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:Because Hatton has won more fights at top level and only lost to the greatest fighter on the planet!!

Hayes superb though, he will be Number 1 way after the others are running the local pub
He got a thorough beating from the top fighter in the planet - and yes there is no shame in that - but a lot of people will argue whether Hatton has proved to be the best fighter in his division - both Haye and Calzaghe have.
Disagree. Hatton is regarded as the man at LWW. If you are thinking about Witter for Hatton you could argue Cunningham for Haye!

I chuckle because I will have to argue.

Hatton for me - prior to the Mayweather fight - was the best Light Welterweight in the world - whilst the PBF fight was at Welterweight - the manner in which Hatton lost leaves me to question whether Hatton comes back to his prime again - many argue we last saw his prime in the KT fight - so what does a beating against Mayweather do for his confidence?

In addition - you and others argue Hatton is the man at Light Welterweight - that purely has to be only opinion - because again looking at the facts - you have Hatton with the prestigious IBO belt - then Rees with the WBA - Malanaggi with the IBF and then of course Witter with the WBC - so clearly there is no form of undisputed champion at this stage in that particular division is there?

Haye holds - WBA, WBC & WBO Cruiserweight belts as well as the coveted Ring Magazine recognition as the best man in his division.

For me Hatton is more than capable - but after the Mayweather fight - he finds himself having a lot to prove regarding his credentials as the top man in his division.

Dirk Kelly · Post by **Dirk Kelly** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:14

Spud wrote:Put your UK top 5 in order.

Does David Haye deserve to be in your top 5 - if so where?

Here's mine

1 - Joe Calzaghe
2 - David Haye
3 - Ricky Hatton
4 - Clinton Woods
5 - Junior Witter

Note: Depending on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins depends on whether he stays at No1 - in addition if Clinton beats Tarver then in my book he proves his status in the top echelons of the Light Heavyweight division and duely goes above Hatton.

Can't really argue with your assessment

Big Pussy · Post by **Big Pussy** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:15

You are forgetting one thing.

Hatton has the coveted Ring Magazine belt as recognition as the best man in the division.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:15

Calzaghe - long title reign and unification wins that were a long time coming. Deserved p4p fighter and if he beats Hopkins, a deserved Hall of Famer

Haye - won unified titles in his first world title fight, took the most dangerous title defence, Mormeck & Macca were a combined 11-1 in world title fights both stopped, and also blew out a top 10 cruiser in Gurov. Should be in p4p top 10 for Gurov, Mormeck and Macca KOs.

Hatton - beat Tszyu but has gone off the boil. picked things up vs Castillo in a fine showing, and we don't know what is left after Mayweather. Has wins over several top 10 fighters (Maussa, Urango, Castillo) albeit not always impressive

Witter
Woods

EddieShredder · Post by **EddieShredder** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:16

Until Hatton loses at LWW, then he's the top dog. No arguments. Yes, he should fight Witter, but thats irrelevant to this argument. He is the Linear 140lb champ, and losing to Mayweather hasn't changed that.

Spud, you say the Mayweather loss leaves you to question whether he can regain his prime, but he hasn't fought since and had the chance to prove it. You might well be right, but until he fights again, he's the no1 at LWW by default.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:18

Big Pussy wrote:You are forgetting one thing.

Hatton has the coveted Ring Magazine belt as recognition as the best man in the division.

That was when he beat KT - do Ring Magazine still consider him the Number 1 in the division?

If you had to press me - my opinion still says he is - but thats an opinion rather than FACT - David Haye has proved his credentials as the Number 1 in the divsion and on that basis I put him above Hatton

EddieShredder · Post by **EddieShredder** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:20

Also, you mention he only has the IBO belt, rees has the WBA, Witter the WBC etc....

You're smart enough to know belts mean fook all. Hatton is the linear champ, he has the ring belt. He's given up the other belts he once had at LWW, not lost them. Saying the other fighters have the belts is a weak argument. Like it or not, until he loses at that weight, he's the champ.

Big Pussy · Post by **Big Pussy** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:22

Spud wrote:
Big Pussy wrote:You are forgetting one thing.

Hatton has the coveted Ring Magazine belt as recognition as the best man in the division.
That was when he beat KT - do Ring Magazine still consider him the Number 1 in the division?

If you had to press me - my opinion still says he is - but thats an opinion rather than FACT - David Haye has proved his credentials as the Number 1 in the divsion and on that basis I put him above Hatton

Yep unlike the alphabet titles, the Ring Magazine doesn't let politics (promoters, TV and mandatories) change their rankings. He's been the Ring holder for more than two years and that will only change if Hatton decides to vacate it or gets beaten by the number 2.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 09:31

Shredder & Pussy,

I knew you and others would pick holes in my "Belts" argument - but FACTS are FACTS and opinions are just what they are.

Hatton has been in some terrific battles - some will argue the KT took a lot out of him - then the fight everyone seems to conveniently forget even I have done that when arguing on these boards - The Collazo fight. Ricky lost that fight - said at the time in a room full of people - all of us wanting Ricky to win - that fight was a struggle. The Urango fight could have been easier if Ricky was in tip top shape. The Castillo performance for me was class - but then there was in my view another step back when Ricky in my view got mullered against Mayweather -

How much have those fights taken out of Ricky?? yes Ricky was the main man - WAS being the key word there - is he still there.

David Haye IS the main man in his division and if Calzaghe has a bad night at the office in April - Haye will be sat firmly at the very top of the tree - and whats more I feel there is very little substantial argument to displace him.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 11 Mar 2008, 11:23

Spud wrote:Put your UK top 5 in order.

Does David Haye deserve to be in your top 5 - if so where?

Here's mine

1 - Joe Calzaghe
2 - David Haye
3 - Ricky Hatton
4 - Clinton Woods
5 - Junior Witter

Note: Depending on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins depends on whether he stays at No1 - in addition if Clinton beats Tarver then in my book he proves his status in the top echelons of the Light Heavyweight division and duely goes above Hatton.

what exactly would Joe Calzaghe have to do in order for you to ditch him as number one in favour of David Haye who almost got stopped against Fragomeni and was on very shaky ground versus Mormeck then blasted out a guy half the people on here are now calling crap.
Bearing in mind the only time Calzaghe has looked remotely in trouble he got straight up and stopped the opponent in the next round?

Or is it me??

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:08

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
Spud wrote:Put your UK top 5 in order.

Does David Haye deserve to be in your top 5 - if so where?

Here's mine

1 - Joe Calzaghe
2 - David Haye
3 - Ricky Hatton
4 - Clinton Woods
5 - Junior Witter

Note: Depending on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins depends on whether he stays at No1 - in addition if Clinton beats Tarver then in my book he proves his status in the top echelons of the Light Heavyweight division and duely goes above Hatton.
what exactly would Joe Calzaghe have to do in order for you to ditch him as number one in favour of David Haye who almost got stopped against Fragomeni and was on very shaky ground versus Mormeck then blasted out a guy half the people on here are now calling crap.
Bearing in mind the only time Calzaghe has looked remotely in trouble he got straight up and stopped the opponent in the next round?
Or is it me??

Now you are cornering me - I always stated that I wanted Calzaghe to take on the very best in his division many years ago - I stated that when he did and if he won then I would stop abusing him!!! - For me Calzaghes win against Kessler did just that - so I do not want to diminish Calzaghes achievement for me being the Undisputed Super Middleweight Champion Of The World.

However if Calzaghe loses against Hopkins and as stated on another thread I think he will almost get cheated out of if by the judges - it will leave boxing fans like myself totally and utterly frustrated all because Calzaghe could have taken on the very best so much earlier and in his prime and in my opinion beaten all comers - he chose not to.

Where as with David Haye - you simply have to give credit where it is due - he will take on anyone - and relatively early in World Title terms he has taken on the best and beaten them!!!

Calzaghe has to beat Hopkins in my view to keep his place at the top - where as David Haye has reached the top already in his division and has now chosen to take on another division and declared he will take on all comers and he means it - Calzaghe chose to do that at the end of his career and in my view too late - very frustrating when in my view he would have been even better than people give him credit for.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:17

Terry D wrote:The top three can be mixed about but no arguments from me at 4-Clinton and 5-Witter. Or maybe even Witter at #4. They have not taken on the likes of a Kessler, Kostya or Mormeck as of yet. In my humble forlock tugging opinion Calzaghe is #1 right now he has longevity but Haye is certianly working his way up and Hatton is #2 as wins over Tszyu and Castillo may be quibbled with but if Witter had them half the threads on this board would disappear.

I have to tempt you with some bait

Hatton/Witter - do you think thats an easy fight.

I have always stated it - Witter gives Ricky murders for the first 4 rounds - then who knows!!!

What about yourself??

And another thing - something hardly anyone has stated - I personally think the longer Ricky leaves it - the bigger Witters chance of beating him becomes a reality!!!

You will say Witter is the older fighter - I will say Ricky has been in a lot harder fights.

I am not saying Witter wins - If I were totally honest it is one fight if you got me to tell the total truth without bullsh*t - I havn't got a bloody clue - one of those rare occasions of honesty!!!

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:18

But Witter bring nothing to the table remember Spud

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:26

Lenny wrote:But Witter bring nothing to the table remember Spud

Lenny give me a break dude - playing the promotional game - at the time!!!

But to be honest my friend - although I stated it at the time - other than quashing and satisfying our intrigue into who wins the fight - at the time Ricky did not need Witter - and I fully understand and agree with Ricky's and the Teams reasoning in NOT taking the fight.

But - a defeat as we all know changes an awful lot in boxing and as I have highlighted on these boards - Ricky had a hard fight against Urango, he also had a nightmare against Collazo and then got mullered against Mayweather - we all question on these board how much defeats or hard fights take out of a boxer - a boxer also thrives on confidence - Mayweather thrashed Hatton in my view - for me the big question is how will Ricky come back from that.

That little theory which will have some chuckling and some wanting to put me at the bottom of the canal yet again - makes a Witter fight too close to call at this stage.

A fight changes everything will Hatton's announcement tommorrow that he fights Lazcano in Manchester - change peoples perceptions on Hatton or will he walk straight through him??

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:32

1. Calzaghe
2.Hatton
3.Haye
4.Woods
5.Witter

The best thing about it is the top 3 are also comfortably inside the top 15 p4p in the game

British Boxing is on fire!

Wait until the Olympic hopefuls turn over after Beijing too.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Mar 2008, 12:48

mmm.... Interesting.

I would JUST give an edge to Hatton for his longevity - he made on or two decent WBU title defenses - better than the Cruiserweight equivalent of Gurov, Fragomeni, and Arthur Williams.

He also beat what could be described at the Enzo Maccarinelli equivelent at Welterweight in Collazo.... so that would be like Haye beating Ibragimov or Briggs (when they were champions) and he aint done that yet.

Tszyu and Mormeck.... whilst Tszyu was definately considered the man and certainly higher in the P4P stakes than Mormeck (possibly a cruicial factor)... both fighters had competition from other belt holders who many experts thought they would lose to at that stage in their career.... Cunnigham for Mormeck... Cotto, MAYWEATHER and maybe Gatti for Tszyu.

But I think overall - I would give the edge to Hatton - just on non title opponents and longevity.

Witter 4 and Woods 5.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 11 Mar 2008, 13:07

Spud wrote:
NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
Spud wrote:Put your UK top 5 in order.

Does David Haye deserve to be in your top 5 - if so where?

Here's mine

1 - Joe Calzaghe
2 - David Haye
3 - Ricky Hatton
4 - Clinton Woods
5 - Junior Witter

Note: Depending on Calzaghe's performance against Hopkins depends on whether he stays at No1 - in addition if Clinton beats Tarver then in my book he proves his status in the top echelons of the Light Heavyweight division and duely goes above Hatton.
what exactly would Joe Calzaghe have to do in order for you to ditch him as number one in favour of David Haye who almost got stopped against Fragomeni and was on very shaky ground versus Mormeck then blasted out a guy half the people on here are now calling crap.
Bearing in mind the only time Calzaghe has looked remotely in trouble he got straight up and stopped the opponent in the next round?
Or is it me??
Now you are cornering me - I always stated that I wanted Calzaghe to take on the very best in his division many years ago - I stated that when he did and if he won then I would stop abusing him!!! - For me Calzaghes win against Kessler did just that - so I do not want to diminish Calzaghes achievement for me being the Undisputed Super Middleweight Champion Of The World.

However if Calzaghe loses against Hopkins and as stated on another thread I think he will almost get cheated out of if by the judges - it will leave boxing fans like myself totally and utterly frustrated all because Calzaghe could have taken on the very best so much earlier and in his prime and in my opinion beaten all comers - he chose not to.

Where as with David Haye - you simply have to give credit where it is due - he will take on anyone - and relatively early in World Title terms he has taken on the best and beaten them!!!

Calzaghe has to beat Hopkins in my view to keep his place at the top - where as David Haye has reached the top already in his division and has now chosen to take on another division and declared he will take on all comers and he means it - Calzaghe chose to do that at the end of his career and in my view too late - very frustrating when in my view he would have been even better than people give him credit for.

fair do's then for the explanation - you are talking about career achievement whereas I'm talking about ability. In terms of ability DH and JC are not in the same library let alone on the same page.
Joe would defeat Haye quicker than he dismantled Lacy IMO - to take that risk against a puncher like David would be a stupid risk though tbh. Joe's too small for cruiser and David's too big in fact really Stu what are you talking about? Calzaghe challenge Haye??

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