Claude Abrams

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:41

Bunce is probably very good for promoting the sport, his enthusiasm is infectious, and can excite Joe Public.
However for the anorak his knowledge seems very limited

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 11 Mar 2008, 20:48

G0mez wrote:
Big Pussy wrote:
G0mez wrote: You cannot feast on bums, binmen and semi-retired opponents for years and then suddenly make the jump up in class to someone of Haye's standing.

Basically Enzo has gathered the fame & fortune without actually achieving anything.... Wheras Haye has been doing the correct thing making achievements and now the fame and fortune will follow suit.
You don't talk a lot of sense but you hit the nail on the head there.

This was the first time Enzo faced someone who wasn't there to lose and it showed.

Enzo is a chump- happy to collect the money and the fake plaudits when it suited him against fighters like Gunn so he can collect the insults now!
It's all about the packaging in this case.

Enzo has been showcased on prime time knocking out cabbie's and a big chunk of the public bought it.

Once you strip away all that make-believe and padded record your left with what you saw Saturday night.

Let's reverse the psychology here for a moment... Lets pretend for a moment that it was David Haye taking on the unbeaten bull strong No1 contender Frogomeni and prime-time ITV in front of 20-30,000 and then following on with a prime ITV fight against Mormeck with all the belts on the line in front of 20-30,000.. all on a huge Calzaghe undercard broadcast across the states and in all the media.

..meanwhile little known Enzo fights in front of 1500 at York Hall against Bobby Gunn. Then his next opponent Ezra Sellers is rejected... then he eeked out a decision against previously beaten Braithwaite who'd come off a 2 year layoff.... all in front of 800 people at Altricham leisure centre...

Would you really and truly say this was a 50/50 fight still?

Somehow i dont think anyone would.

And thats Showbizz

Gomez... it is a rare post that boasts insight. Spot on.

Macca, nice guy, but MASSIVE hype job, that many on here bought into despite their knowledge of the sport.

So you can fool most of the people, most of the time!

whatashambles · Post by **whatashambles** » 11 Mar 2008, 21:26

Bunce is probably very good for promoting the sport, his enthusiasm is infectious, and can excite Joe Public.
However for the anorak his knowledge seems very limited

I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem is he goes often goes over the top and loses credibility because of it. I'd love to have two Claude Abrams but to Joe Public it would probably be boring. I would prefer to just keep Bunce for the Warren bouts and maybe get someone better in with Abrams for the early morning fights.

I agree completely with Gomez as well. Warren is often too concerned with preserving fighters 0 losses. Haye lost early on because he was thrown in with someone better than him and because he was underprepared. It gave him a kick in the right direction and he's probably gone further because of it.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 12 Mar 2008, 05:38

Claude Abrams is excellent , Bunce used to annoy me greatly, but i've kind of warmed to his rants a bit now, i think they use him because alot of the other guys can come across as a bit flat on TV.
I also think Bob Mee is excellent, truly great knowledge of boxers and boxing.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Mar 2008, 06:02

Old bones Ian wrote:Claude Abrams is excellent , Bunce used to annoy me greatly, but i've kind of warmed to his rants a bit now, i think they use him because alot of the other guys can come across as a bit flat on TV.
I also think Bob Mee is excellent, truly great knowledge of boxers and boxing.

Bob Mee is an absolute top man.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 06:13

He knows his onions, but comes across a bit flat at times.

I think what is needed for boxing is a bit of a combination, excitability and knowledgability.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 12 Mar 2008, 06:50

Then again i don't like the style of Teddy Atlas on the american fights, his droning on about the same thing in most fights, and he never likes to be wrong even if he's called it different all the way through a fight, when the fight ends in a KO he tries to make out he always saw it coming.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 06:54

Yeah, Atlas sets his jaw early on in the fight, and once he's made his observation, he just bangs on, and on, and on, and on, and on about it. He's really tedious.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 12 Mar 2008, 06:59

I do find alot of commentators just have conversations with the co-commentator thoughout a fight nowadays. I prefer the old style of describing whats going on in the ring, with a few facts thrown in.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:10

Old bones Ian wrote:Then again i don't like the style of Teddy Atlas on the american fights, his droning on about the same thing in most fights, and he never likes to be wrong even if he's called it different all the way through a fight, when the fight ends in a KO he tries to make out he always saw it coming.

Credit to Atlas, though. He's very good at explaining the science to people that have little or no knowledge.

However, his actions backstage at ESPN FNF recently were disgusting.

Read his book if you get a chance, best boxing biography I've read so far!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:17

What did he do, I remember some sort of dust up?

Got his book, not read it yet.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote:What did he do, I remember some sort of dust up?

Got his book, not read it yet.

Read it, you'll love it. IT's a shame there wasn't reality TV when he trained Moorer as they are the perfect real-life odd couple.

This is what was reported:
http://www.silive.com/news/advance/inde ... xml&coll=1

Bobby Dobbs said (I'm paraphrasing, and my memory is sketchy) that what actually happened was Atlas got violent with Doug (possibly kicking the shizzle out of him, throwing him against a wall, etc). Then Bobby got in trouble for saying what he did on BoxRec and the thread died, as did my interest towards the end.

http://www.boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 34&start=0

P.S. Drove past your house apparently on Sat going to the O2 (Clapham, I think). Dirk knows where you live, God knows how. I'd be worried if I were you!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:27

I live in Tulse Hill.

There's quite a few people who've sent me packages over the years who know my address.

Can't imagine why you'd pass through Tulse hill on the way to the 02 however.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:28

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I live in Tulse Hill.

There's quite a few people who've sent me packages over the years who know my address.

Can't imagine why you'd pass through Tulse hill on the way to the 02 however.

Dirk's fecking SatNav took us round the small roads in London, at 16.00 on a Sat. Great.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 08:39

Ahh, the beautiful blooms of hoodlums along the verdant vales of Norwood Road junction, how picturesque.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:15

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:
Old bones Ian wrote:Then again i don't like the style of Teddy Atlas on the american fights, his droning on about the same thing in most fights, and he never likes to be wrong even if he's called it different all the way through a fight, when the fight ends in a KO he tries to make out he always saw it coming.
Credit to Atlas, though. He's very good at explaining the science to people that have little or no knowledge.

However, his actions backstage at ESPN FNF recently were disgusting.

Read his book if you get a chance, best boxing biography I've read so far!

I agree, his book is excellent

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:20

jamesmcdonnell wrote:He knows his onions, but comes across a bit flat at times.

I think what is needed for boxing is a bit of a combination, excitability and knowledgability.

Bob Mee would be excellent as a Colour commentator to the likes of Darke and Adam Smith.

To be fair to him - Holdsworth does ask such "anoraky" questions that occasionnaly make him just look like a statto.... I like it, but I can see why others might not.

Like when Holdsworth says stuff like "this is for the European Exeternal Union title - whatever that means, its a mickey mouse belt and we won't discuss it further - what does it mean Bob?"

If Mee knows the answer - then he knows the answer and of course he should answer the question.

I like Abrams alot as a ringside analysis... he shows tremendous knowledge but doesn't give it the big I am. I think its because he has limited (does he have any?) actual fighting experience that he allows the ex world champions to have more of a say - and doesn't potray arrogance at all.

I think if Mee was working with some of the other guys, as a colour commentator or as a in studio expert - then he would act like Abrams.

Bunce though.......

THEBUTCH · Post by **THEBUTCH** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:21

As a front man presenter I single out Ron McIntosh these days. He did an excellent job on Radio 5 last weekend, and would like SkySports to move him into their studio. Wishful thinking.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:24

Coco wrote:Bunce is probably very good for promoting the sport, his enthusiasm is infectious, and can excite Joe Public.
However for the anorak his knowledge seems very limited

Problem is though... whilst many are not anoraks - anybody tuning in to Setanta boxing's coverage are all ready boxing fans and therefore the sport doesn't need to be promoted to them.

Get Bunce on this morning or something - then great.

To his credit, I do like his pre-recorded stuff. Sometimes a bit OTT, like Eddie Butlers' are for the Rugby, but they are top drawer.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:31

stujones wrote:
Coco wrote:Bunce is probably very good for promoting the sport, his enthusiasm is infectious, and can excite Joe Public.
However for the anorak his knowledge seems very limited
Problem is though... whilst many are not anoraks - anybody tuning in to Setanta boxing's coverage are all ready boxing fans and therefore the sport doesn't need to be promoted to them.

Get Bunce on this morning or something - then great.

To his credit, I do like his pre-recorded stuff. Sometimes a bit OTT, like Eddie Butlers' are for the Rugby, but they are top drawer.

I like his pre recorded stuff too, prob as he has the time to do the research to do a proper job, a bit like when he is writing articles

However live telly does highlight his lack of knowledge, unless he is deliberately being a cheerleader for his paymasters.

Nevertheless as a combination having Bunce with genuine experts like Mee and Abrams probably works.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Mar 2008, 09:44

THEBUTCH wrote:As a front man presenter I single out Ron McIntosh these days. He did an excellent job on Radio 5 last weekend, and would like SkySports to move him into their studio. Wishful thinking.

Its cruel I know - but he just doesn't have the face for TV. He was a little bit wooden when doing his stuff on TV. He could be great though in a like Ed Robinson role for any of the broadcasters.

I don't think he in the UK have much of a problem when it comes to presenters. Jim Rosenthal will be out of a job soon, there is also Matt Smith who is good as his stand in, Paul Dempsey is the maestro, and Dave Clarke is improving as is Paul Boardman (is that his name?)... someone told me he was Stan Boardman's son... is that true?

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 12 Mar 2008, 10:45

Yes Paul is Stan Boardmans son

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Mar 2008, 11:15

stujones wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:He knows his onions, but comes across a bit flat at times.

I think what is needed for boxing is a bit of a combination, excitability and knowledgability.
Bob Mee would be excellent as a Colour commentator to the likes of Darke and Adam Smith.

To be fair to him - Holdsworth does ask such "anoraky" questions that occasionnaly make him just look like a statto.... I like it, but I can see why others might not.

Like when Holdsworth says stuff like "this is for the European Exeternal Union title - whatever that means, its a mickey mouse belt and we won't discuss it further - what does it mean Bob?"

If Mee knows the answer - then he knows the answer and of course he should answer the question.

I like Abrams alot as a ringside analysis... he shows tremendous knowledge but doesn't give it the big I am. I think its because he has limited (does he have any?) actual fighting experience that he allows the ex world champions to have more of a say - and doesn't potray arrogance at all.

I think if Mee was working with some of the other guys, as a colour commentator or as a in studio expert - then he would act like Abrams.

Bunce though.......

I'm glad Claude has been brought back, he's the voice of reason, gives a balanced analysis of a fight without any real ego. I'm a big admirer, though he does need to be offset with someone who brings the excitement of the big occasion.

If he was given a go at commentating, I could see him pairing well with Watt or Jim Neilly.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Mar 2008, 11:25

Jesus... Jim Neilly.

I suppose Abrams could work in a 3 group with Watt and someone - but I cannot see either filling the Darke, Smith, Rawling role and calling the action.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 12 Mar 2008, 11:33

Please stick Abrahams on the box. Anything to stop him writing (aaargh!).