Is it really DEFAMATION to post this photo?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 12 Mar 2008, 11:51

I can understand that a shill like Thomas Hauser has a reason for attaching himself to Ali like a parasite and selling the mediocrity Ali like mad--

Hauser makes MONEY doing that.

But WHAT but is in it for the retarded Hauser clones like ifeelfine, buzz and company who clutter up the internet genuflecting for their hero and doing the same for free ?

What a pathetic group of suckers.
.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 12 Mar 2008, 12:08

Terry D wrote:
granberry wrote:I can understand that a shill like Thomas Hauser has a reason for attaching himself to Ali like a parasite and selling the mediocrity Ali like mad--

Hauser makes MONEY doing that.

But WHAT but is in it for the retarded Hauser clones like ifeelfine, buzz and company who clutter up the internet genuflecting for their hero and doing the same for free ?

What a pathetic group of suckers.
.
I used to post here for the odd few days but popping back and seeing posts/strands like this makes me realise why I rarely look at this section of Boxrec, time to lump it in with the Current Scene as a no-go.

Agreed. If it wasn't for granberry the place would have gone to the dogs even earlier.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 12 Mar 2008, 13:13

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 17:30

Davey
The point you made is exactly what I was trying to illustrate with some guys on another forum maybe a year or so ago.

Most people treat it as though ALi walked straight into the fight with Frazier straight of the exile.

The reality is, the exile IS a factor in many peoples minds and who knows if Ali would have been beaten by some one else had he not been forced out for theose three years.

The fact is the exile created a unique situation. Ali was a bigger name because of the politics that surrounded him. The fight became huge, Ali was undefeated and considered the man. Frazier got no credit as champ, people still felt he was a pretender. This was a put up or shut up fight.
It ensured both guys got a good pay day.

Both guys had a lot of time to preapre, had a lot of film and info on one another. Ali and his camp were confident of victory all the way up to the fight. So were the fans.

It is only after the fact that 'excuses' materalised that this or that hurt Ali's performance.

It was a good fight. Both men are legends and lived up to the hype.

Frazier bested Ali when both were closer to there prime.

Therafter is makes little difference to the realities of the first fight.

If it was 10 point must then things would have looked less impressive for Ali.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:14

Robinson wrote:
Both men are legends and lived up to the hype.

I don't believe Dave (Davey????) agrees with that statement.

In fact, calling Ali a legend suggest you too are just an Ali shill and, like me, the lowest form of insect ever to post in this forum.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:18

jomothepure wrote:
Terry D wrote:
granberry wrote:I can understand that a shill like Thomas Hauser has a reason for attaching himself to Ali like a parasite and selling the mediocrity Ali like mad--

Hauser makes MONEY doing that.

But WHAT but is in it for the retarded Hauser clones like ifeelfine, buzz and company who clutter up the internet genuflecting for their hero and doing the same for free ?

What a pathetic group of suckers.
.
I used to post here for the odd few days but popping back and seeing posts/strands like this makes me realise why I rarely look at this section of Boxrec, time to lump it in with the Current Scene as a no-go.
Agreed. If it wasn't for granberry the place would have gone to the dogs even earlier.

granberry has brought light to areas that were always in darkness for us shills.

Until he appeared I had no idea that Futch had been bribed in Manilla to call the fight off should Joe ever look like winning.

Now I know the truth.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:27

I am what I am :) and a shill is refreshing to say.

I am more a Frazier fan, I appreciate Ali's skills and talent's but I do agree with many here that he gets alot of credit and is almost over
celebrated.

This is not his fault I suppose. The boxing community, celebrities and
pp culture has embraced him thoroughly and this is frustrating to deal
with.

Frazier wins if the fight happens in say 1969 or 1970 had Ali not retired.

Fraizer was a better fight in the late 1960s than he was at the time of the
Ali fight. He was more active, relied less on one shot power. Seldom loaded up and varied his strikes.

The Ali fight and thereafter saw him alter his game. In my opinion it was better for Ali that he faced a Frazier in the 1970s as opposed to that slugging pain machine of the late 1960s.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:31

Robinson wrote:I am what I am :) and a shill is refreshing to say.

I am more a Frazier fan, I appreciate Ali's skills and talent's but I do agree with many here that he gets alot of credit and is almost over
celebrated.

This is not his fault I suppose. The boxing community, celebrities and
pp culture has embraced him thoroughly and this is frustrating to deal
with.

Frazier wins if the fight happens in say 1969 or 1970 had Ali not retired.

Fraizer was a better fight in the late 1960s than he was at the time of the
Ali fight. He was more active, relied less on one shot power. Seldom loaded up and varied his strikes.

The Ali fight and thereafter saw him alter his game. In my opinion it was better for Ali that he faced a Frazier in the 1970s as opposed to that slugging pain machine of the late 1960s.

Yeah, it didn't help Joe that Futch was bribed in manilla did it, kym?

Do you agree with Dave (Davey???) and granberry that Joe was on the point of winning when Futch comitted his treachourous act?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:44

Ive never ever subscribed to such conspiracy theories. I personally feel that Futch was genuinely concerned for Frazier.

That is why the fight was stopped. I fear the sport needs more men of moral character and compassion in a fighters corner. See I come from a sport where one can quit honorable. In boxing I find that if a man succumbs or quits he is a coward or he threw the fight. That is not right.

I am interested to know more about what people think and know on the sport....far fetched to main stream.

BUT I do feel that Ali gets alot of credit.

I think say a Granberry goes all out in trying to illustrate this, but he
at times does hit some points I agree with and other times I seriously
question as to whether he is serious.

As for davey I have thus far agreed with most of what he has said.

Just becuase I agree with some forum members theories and opinions does not mean I agree with them all....

Have I given the impression of this ?

Yours lovingly
Kym

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 19:54

Robinson wrote:Ive never ever subscribed to such conspiracy theories. I personally feel that Futch was genuinely concerned for Frazier.

That is why the fight was stopped. I fear the sport needs more men of moral character and compassion in a fighters corner. See I come from a sport where one can quit honorable. In boxing I find that if a man succumbs or quits he is a coward or he threw the fight. That is not right.

I am interested to know more about what people think and know on the sport....far fetched to main stream.

BUT I do feel that Ali gets alot of credit.

I think say a Granberry goes all out in trying to illustrate this, but he
at times does hit some points I agree with and other times I seriously
question as to whether he is serious.

As for davey I have thus far agreed with most of what he has said.

Just becuase I agree with some forum members theories and opinions does not mean I agree with them all....

Have I given the impression of this ?

Yours lovingly
Kym

Dear Kym,

I am merely trying to understand your take on Ali and Frazier as it is unclear.

granberry and dave describe ali as a mediocre fighter whereas you term him a legend.

I now see you DO NOT believe that baloney about Futch being responsible for Ali's win in Manilla.

How about the claim made by granberry and supported by dave (davey???) that Arthur mercante twice intentionally stuck his finger in Joe Frazier's eye during the first Ali - Frazier fight. Do you believe that gem?

Yours in sport,
Collins2000

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 20:11

I do not think that is true. But I have seen in MMA a ref break a fighters jaw during the contest.

I shall re-watch the fight

but like I listed above conspiracy theories are abound in all sports. Makes it more fun.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 12 Mar 2008, 20:47

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 20:56

Robinson wrote:I have seen in MMA a ref break a fighters jaw during the contest.

Intentionally? If not, then it has nothing to do with the scenario granberry has described.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 21:04

DaveV17 wrote:Collins, you are making up lies again. I don't remember commenting at all on Ali - Frazier 3, mainly because the fight involved a shot Joe Frazier. To me the fight has no signifcance in boxing history. The first fight is the only one of the three in which Frazier was close to his best weight and conditioned. Collins, you never contribute anything to any discussion but don't make up lies and claim that I said them.

Robinson, I agee with you. Frazier peaked against Ellis and he was much more active in 69-70 than he was by the time he fought Ali.

Davey, can you confirm you do not believe the scenario described by your buddy granberry in the 3rd Ali - Frazier fight ie Futch only halted the fight because he was paid by the "ali industry" to do just that?

Don't worry. If he calls you a shill and the lowest form of insect it will not change my opinion of you.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 21:09

In regards to ref Mc Carthy breaking fighter Johnson's haw
Well thats the thing I say accident others say intentional.

take your pick.

I think too that way to much is put on the 3rd meeting. It was two Great fighters past there best fighting in a 3rd world country in hot temp.

I think the theory that RFutch was paid by Ali's people is silly. I feel he genuinely was concerned for Frazier when he stopped the fight. Had he been in Ali's corner he may have done the same also...

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 12 Mar 2008, 21:12

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 12 Mar 2008, 21:23

but Holmes won ! :)

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 21:48

Robinson wrote:In regards to ref Mc Carthy breaking fighter Johnson's haw
Well thats the thing I say accident others say intentional.

take your pick.

I think too that way to much is put on the 3rd meeting. It was two Great fighters past there best fighting in a 3rd world country in hot temp.

I think the theory that RFutch was paid by Ali's people is silly. I feel he genuinely was concerned for Frazier when he stopped the fight. Had he been in Ali's corner he may have done the same also...

Silly?

I think it is fekkin ridiculous and proves he is a nutter.

The idea of Arthur Mercante being paid to repeatedly poke his fingers into Frazier's eye is also about as stupid a claim as I have heard in 30 years of following boxing.

Does anyone in here believe that?

In fact, does anyone in their right mind believe that?

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:02

obviously not. I cannot believe this thread has not been Locked

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:16

no reason to lock it. Opinions are just opinions. And some of the more unusual and diverse opinions provide good entertainment and on occasion a breakthrough in thinking. In this case more of the former than the latter.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:24

BoxBuzz wrote:no reason to lock it. Opinions are just opinions. And some of the more unusual and diverse opinions provide good entertainment and on occasion a breakthrough in thinking. In this case more of the former than the latter.

You Ali shill! Why won't you answer the question, you dillettante! etc etc etc

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 12 Mar 2008, 22:36

When Ali comes off a three year layoff, he has no excuses. When Frazier and Ali are on a level playing field, and Joe loses, it doesn't count.

Poor logic. Ring rust is a reality, its not something the Ali industry invented, many fighters have suffered defeat after coming off long stretches of inactivity that were shorter than Ali's exile, like Robinson for example. Again, just watch the Bonavena fight and try to tell me there was nothing wrong with Ali. He looked better against Frazier, but it was still there. In the rematches, they had both been active, they were both alright, particularly in the second fight, and Ali won. Done deal. The rematches are more important than the first fight. And if someone claims that Ali has no excuses for the first fight, Frazier sure as shit has no excuses for losing the rematches. Either all of the fights count, or none of them do, and the whole trilogy was a meaningless exercise; which it was not, and Ali won it. Saying otherwise is a copout.

As for how they would do in their primes, without long layoffs and other problems; well, I know who I'm betting on. If they fought in 68-70 with no layoff, Ali would be at his best, he would have his speed and reflexes but he would also be stronger and more experienced. Joe would always give him a tough fight, but Ali would win a decision a little easier than he did in '74.

As for granberry's question; I'm not the one who started this thread.

I'd much rather spend more time talking about other fighters, but I'm not going to ignore bullshit, whether its bullshit directed at Ali or Sanchez or someone else. People in Joe Louis and Joe Frazier glass houses shouldn't throw stones... I am very objective about Ali, I do not see that same objectivity when it comes to some of your favorites.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 13 Mar 2008, 03:54

Granberry - you remind me of another poster from long long ago from a far away galaxy that was once Boxrec. He was the gatekeeper of sorts to the BOTP forum but alas one day he was banned. Do you know who I'm on about? Me thinks so

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 13 Mar 2008, 05:48

Terry D wrote:
Collins2000 wrote:
jomothepure wrote: Agreed. If it wasn't for granberry the place would have gone to the dogs even earlier.

granberry has brought light to areas that were always in darkness for us shills.

Until he appeared I had no idea that Futch had been bribed in Manilla to call the fight off should Joe ever look like winning.

Now I know the truth.
I remember talking to his widow and she claims that Futch was most proud of the fact he had a good name in boxing and people respected his integrity. Nice to see it being questioned by a failed boxing writer.

...& one who consistently misspells Manila, no less

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 13 Mar 2008, 05:51

Of course, in Gran's case, it's the least of her concerns