Doug Jones

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Mar 2008, 18:22

hey guys I have really began to enjoy watching this little over achiever.

I have watched several times a compression of his Ali fight, I just watched his beating over Foster (who took the fight on very short notice).

I have also started to watch his fight against Folley, which so far seems pretty good.

I have also his Chuvalo fight ready to watch shortly.

Are there any other bouts of his floating aorund ?

What I have noticed about him so far is that he fights a clever aggressive fight and he is able to slip punches very subtley, he does this well off the other guys jab.

He also has nice, sneaky and very efficent upper cuts, a right to the body and a stiff though short jab.

The tragedy is that he is a name on another man;s record. Watching these other fights one grows to appreciate how talented and fun to watch he was, also you can see how he gave Ali a hard time. He had the style to do it.

The tragedy is that casual fans hear that this guy Jones gave Ali a tough time, and that is it. I must confess that before I came to this site, I over looked Jones and most likely a great deal of others.

Now to me, courtesy of you guys, I have become a fan of this tough lil battler Jones who is a damned fun guy to watch.

He is no longer just a guy that Ali beat in a close fight.

Kym

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 17 Mar 2008, 18:58

Robinson, I haven't seen it but Granberry said that Doug Jones and Harold Johnson is a great fight. Jones is one of my favorite fighters to watch because of his near flawless technigues.

Joe Louis is another, and another is Evander Holyfield. If any kid wanted to learn to box, he/she couldn't go wrong watching Doug Jones, Joe Louis, and Evander Holyfield. Their techniques are excellent,

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 17 Mar 2008, 19:04

I am trying to chase up some Johnson fights actually. Im actually excited at the idea of watching two in action.

He was not completly flawless but damned is he a talent, I wish he had it in him to have gone further. Though the best are only so revered for those that challenge them.

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 18 Mar 2008, 02:50

I have always liked Doug Jones. He was featured in the very first "Boxing Illustrated" I bought in the mid/late sixties.
I have the following fights:
Zora Folley 2nd
Bob Foster
George Chuvalo
Harold Johnson
Eddie Machen
Harold Johnson

The fight against Billy Daniels also exists.
The fight against Joe Frazier should exist (rumour only)

Woller

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 18 Mar 2008, 03:32

The main career of Doug Jones was as a lightheavyweight.

After he had the bad luck to run into Harold Johnson in his chance at the lightheavyweight title,

he gave up on that title and the rest of his career was as a fat, less than perfectly conditioned fighter in the heavyweight class.

After he retired, Doug Jones said that by far the most gifted fighter he had fought in his career was Harold Johnson.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 18 Mar 2008, 04:41

I wouild love to see the Johnson and Frazier fights.

Would you be able to give me a run down on the Johnson fights ..was it a one sided fair with Johnson boxing superbly or was it closer than this.

Gran

I would not call him lazy and fat, he seemed pretty damned handy and capable though smallish in his HW fights.

I am a fan of the man that I have seen.

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 27 Mar 2008, 16:11

I have just watched the second Doug Jones v Billy Daniels fight. Daniels did make Doug look bad for long periods of the fight and won a split decision.

Woller

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 27 Mar 2008, 16:15

At the weigh in before the fight where Doug Jones beat him and then Clay was given the "decision,"

Cassius Clay made up a "poem" about how fat Doug Jones was (Jones weighed 188 and a fraction---13 pounds over the lightheavyweight limit).

Clay outweighed Jones by 25 pounds and was unable to hurt him.

(2 fights before Clay was supposedly able to "beat" Sonny Liston).

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 27 Mar 2008, 18:02

Here are some AP reports of the Clay-Jones fight:

Personally, I thought Clay won, but it was a very close fight.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 27 Mar 2008, 18:59

I would like to see the full Clay-Jones fight I have only seen a compressed version of the fight.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 28 Mar 2008, 02:08

I never seen the film in its entirety, but from what I seen throughout, it seemed that Jones landed the much crisper punches and seemed to have connected more often; for being a man who relied so much on his jab, almost on a offensive level (Ali), he was able to be hit relatively 'easy' by the jab by Jones. He was a magnificent fighter, Jones was. No question about it.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 02:53

Jones definitely did not out land Clay. Jones was hurt as many times as Clay was; the times where Clay was hurt are just advertised more. I had it Clay 5-4-1, as did two of the judges.

Jones' performance was good, as was his performance against Foster. But an older Ali would have beaten him easier, and an older Foster might have beaten him. Foster was only 11-0.

Jones was good, but he's become something of an urban legend.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 28 Mar 2008, 03:56

No one has ever explained how Clay could show no defense, no punching power and inferior boxing ability against the much smaller Doug Jones,

and then "beat" Liston easily 2 fights later.

LOL

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:19

How did Jones lose to Folley one month and knock him out four months later. How did Douglas lose to Tucker then beat Tyson. Schmeling makes Louis look stupid one night, then can't compete with him the next.

Jones was a nobody, so Clay trained like he was a nobody. Liston he took more seriously. Typical behavior, typical pattern that we see over and again in boxing history. Some guys lose a fight and win a title in their next fight, like Escalera. Not too unusual for people who know boxing. The Clay who fought Liston would have abused Jones.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:26

LISTON is the fighter who changed for the Clay fight.

LOL

Ignorance of Liston is a prerequisite for considering the Clay-Liston fights legitimate.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:34

I'd wager I've seen more Liston fights than you have.

Liston hit Clay with punches that would have knocked out Williams or Patterson. And yet he was willing to hit this skinny 22 year old with monster shots, all the while with the intention of throwing the fight.

Liston showed in the second fight that he didn't know how to throw a fight. He went down on the first real punch, in the first round, then looked like a moron falling all over himself on the ground. Yet in the first fight he was a master choreographer who could fake it for six rounds.

Bullshit.

Conspiracy theorists = lowest form of human life.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:37

The BIG problem for the Ali 'enthusiasts' :

Trying (desperately) to pass off the Liston-Clay fights as 'legitimate."

LOL

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:42

It's an easy thing to explain, and an easy thing to see. When you've devoted your life to hating someone who hasn't fought in 27 years, its a little tougher to acknowledge, and certainly much more difficult to try to counter other people's points; something you've never been able to do.

Was Marciano-Walcott I a fix just because Walcott took a dive in the second fight? You're a Marciano fan, I'm sure you don't believe that. And yet Walcott did the same thing Liston did.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:49

To swallow Liston-Clay I

one has to believe the Liston who fought a number of rounds with a broken jaw in a fight when he was a nobody

suddenly quits in his corner with a "sore shoulder"
to give up the heavyweight championship of the world.

That Clay, who less than two rounds earlier was knocked into dreamland by 185 pound Henry Cooper's left hook

suddenly has a perfect defense.

LOL

And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 04:55

Duran didn't quit against Hagler and Barkley, yet when he was being frustrated and couldn't do anything he quit against Leonard and gave up the Welterweight title. Perceived tough fighters will have hope if they have an opponent they can hit, but they often quit mentally when they are in with an opponent they can't do anything with. Happens all the time. Add to that Liston's cut eye. He claimed a shoulder injury, whether that was an excuse or something legit I don't know. But he was sure willing to take a lot of punishment to sell the first dive, while in the rematch he wasn't even willing to go past one round to make it look good. Odd behavior.

Only an idiot would suggest that Ali wasn't hard to hit. Jones wouldn't have hit him in later fights. And only an idiot would say that Clay took Jones as seriously as he did Liston. He trained for a four round fight with Jones, while he pushed himself hard for Liston; and it clearly showed. Add to that the fact that Liston was 34 and had been fighting one round exhibitions with Patterson for the last two years. And the reality is that Liston did hit Clay, and he hit him with some hard shots; shots that easily would have stopped Patterson a year earlier. But he was fighting a more mobile fighter who wasn't standing in front of him and who wasn't going down on the first punch, and add his conditioning to that and you have a scenario that isn't hard to figure out; unless you have an Ali bug up your ass.

You don't know shit about boxing.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:20

I think Jones had success against Ali, because Ali was a mover. Jones cut inside, stayed with him and landed this way. He kept the pressure on, almost like a Frazier would nearly a decade later. Ali was almost always moving, skimming away from Jones/

Folley on the other hand was a more traditional boxer, he stood in front of Jones and threw sharp and clean hooks, Folleys left hook abd long jab did the damage. Folley chased Jones down once he landed the cross and left hook.
Folley just brawled and mauled Jones in round two, but Jones showed his mettle, taking it and coming back himself.

Folley was able to keep Jones at the end of his punches and inside his arc of power as such. Jones was trying to play catch up from the end of round one, sure he had his moments but accurate meaningful punches on Folley's part were the key.

I shall say one thing come the end of round two, Folley-Jones was a fight.

In the later rounds both men trade jabs, outside shots, but also are quite happy to work inside, stand on a x in the middle of the ring and blast the body and knock the skull inches from one another.

It was being well schooled and established as a boxer that saw Folley beat Jones for many of the rounds. Folley loses to Ali most nights, but Jones no doubt gives Ali trouble...Folley however still beats Jones on and off.

Jones showed one thing in the Folley fight...though beaten he never stopped fighting and showed he wanted to win, and for moments in each round he was. The KO was well earned. And Jones gained momentum and was able to over come with heart and guts.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:41

Whether his talent has become urban legend or whatever...I shall say one thing.

Jones is in three of my new favourite fights to watch now...

Jones vs Chuvalo, Foster and Folley.

I just like to watch the man do his thing.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:45

The Jones fight was always the "smoking gun" for people that hate the guy that beat Patterson, Liston, Frazier and Foreman.

It was a great story because very few people had seen it until just a few years ago. the haters who never saw the fight needed something to cling to. (Of course they always had to ignore the fact that the fight was in Jones' hometown and he still didn't get the decision.)

However, now that ESPN Classic has shown it a few times, the myth has been exposed. Jones was competitive and fought a very good fight, but he didn't win enough rounds and it's all there to see.

Btw-Who else could win the Fight of the Year and have it constantly brought up as a negative? Not to mention that he was a pro for less than 2 and 1/2 years, and in only his 18th fight.

It's so surprising that the discussion of this thread has turned to this one fight. Couldn't see that coming.

Jones actually had several interesting fights; Including Bobo Olson,Harold Johnson, Von Clay, Bob Foster,Joe Frazier,Eddie Machen,Zora Folley,George Chuvalo, and Ernie Terrell. Maybe we can go back to talking about them? This thread is supposed to be about Jones.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:48

I am trying to hunt those fights down.

Does the Frazier fight exist on film at all?

I can not find any Johnson fights.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Mar 2008, 10:07

Being GENEROUS to Jones I had the fight Clay 6 Jones 3 1 even.

I like Doug Jones and he was an excellent light HW who could upset class HWs on good nights.

But literally there's NO WAY he won the Clay fight. People who have him winning, display your scorecards. Clay clearly outworked and outpunched Jones.