NY TIMES SETTLES ALI-LISTON II QUESTION

[BigJuicyHog]

You are an old prune Gran. If an orthodox fighter throws a right hook, they will be shifting their weight from the right (back) foot to the left (lead) foot. I pretty sure you are just twisting someone elses words to fit your agenda much as you always do. Also, why do you write everything one sentence per line with a line in between like this:

Ali shills are crying

The experts know why

Collins and Boxbuzz blah blah blah.

[BoxBuzz]

it's good that you can boast the basic fundamentals gran. We are all very proud, but you never never never comment on any aspect of concerns other than your own.

In this way you are the most proactive person I have ever encountered.

You simply choose silence on all items that do not promote your specific agenda. It's what makes you granberry. Don't ever change.

[granberry]

You are an old prune Gran. If an orthodox fighter throws a right hook, they will be shifting their weight from the right (back) foot to the left (lead) foot. I pretty sure you are just twisting someone elses words to fit your agenda much as you always do. Also, why do you write everything one sentence per line with a line in between like this:

Ali shills are crying

The experts know why

Collins and Boxbuzz blah blah blah.

Learn how to read, hog.

The article says put the weight on the left foot BEFORE you throw the right hand.

The gleeful stupidity you and your cohorts display here on something as rudimentary as that

shows for all to see the level of competence of 'boxing' internet site posters such as yourself.
.

[BigJuicyHog]

And your make believe world is just gay.

[Collins2000]

You are an old prune Gran. If an orthodox fighter throws a right hook, they will be shifting their weight from the right (back) foot to the left (lead) foot. I pretty sure you are just twisting someone elses words to fit your agenda much as you always do. Also, why do you write everything one sentence per line with a line in between like this:

Ali shills are crying

The experts know why

Collins and Boxbuzz blah blah blah.

Learn how to read, hog.

The article says put the weight on the left foot BEFORE you throw the right hand.

The gleeful stupidity you and your cohorts display here on something as rudimentary as that

shows for all to see the level of competence of 'boxing' internet site posters such as yourself.
.

I see you have capitalised BEFORE for emphasis.

Yet it doesn't appear, CAPITALISED or un-capitalised, in the original article.

Are you making stuff up AGAIN, granberry?

LOL

.

[granberry]

You are an old prune Gran. If an orthodox fighter throws a right hook, they will be shifting their weight from the right (back) foot to the left (lead) foot. I pretty sure you are just twisting someone elses words to fit your agenda much as you always do. Also, why do you write everything one sentence per line with a line in between like this:

Ali shills are crying

The experts know why

Collins and Boxbuzz blah blah blah.

Learn how to read, hog.

The article says put the weight on the left foot BEFORE you throw the right hand.

The gleeful stupidity you and your cohorts display here on something as rudimentary as that

shows for all to see the level of competence of 'boxing' internet site posters such as yourself.
.

I see you have capitalised BEFORE for emphasis.

Yet it doesn't appear, CAPITALISED or un-capitalised, in the original article.

Are you making stuff up AGAIN, granberry?

LOL

.

Of course it appears in the original.

When is collins going to ask his boy Baltazar if he taught his kids to put their weight on their left foot and then throw their right hand?

When is collins going to report the answer back here for all of us?

Joe Gans, Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, and Joe Louis had it all wrong when they threw a right hand

according to the clueless retards of boxrec.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm thinking about having the treasury print up some more money in order to put a stop to the bickering crisis. That seems to do the trick with all other problems...so I think it might work here as well.

[granberry]

I'm thinking about having the treasury print up some more money in order to put a stop to the bickering crisis. That seems to do the trick with all other problems...so I think it might work here as well.

buzz could give Joe Louis lessons on how to throw a right hand.

And snicker in superiority if he was told he is wrong.

The internet--the haven for the clueless.

[Collins2000]

Learn how to read, hog.

The article says put the weight on the left foot BEFORE you throw the right hand.

The gleeful stupidity you and your cohorts display here on something as rudimentary as that

shows for all to see the level of competence of 'boxing' internet site posters such as yourself.
.

I see you have capitalised BEFORE for emphasis.

Yet it doesn't appear, CAPITALISED or un-capitalised, in the original article.

Are you making stuff up AGAIN, granberry?

LOL

.

Of course it appears in the original.

When is collins going to ask his boy Baltazar if he taught his kids to put their weight on their left foot and then throw their right hand?

When is collins going to report the answer back here for all of us?

Joe Gans, Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, and Joe Louis had it all wrong when they threw a right hand

according to the clueless retards of boxrec.

Can you post the line with ...before... in it, granberry.

Just to prove you are not making stuff up again.

[granberry]

Ali had his weight completely on his left leg (with his right leg twisted awkwardly behind his left leg) before and during the time he

"knocked out" Sonny Liston with a 'right hand.'

It's right there for all to see.

That meant his 'punch' was an arm slap.

The fight stinks to HIGH HEAVENS.

But the salesmen for the Religion of Ali have to try to sell that tripe and claim it was legitimate.

And here they have their NEW YORK TIMES 'expert' (with the help of a lady Village Voice 'expert')

to sell their agenda.

LOL

[Collins2000]

several paragraphs of meaningless waffle

Here's the paragraph. I don't see the word 'before'. Yet you have repeated several times that it is there. Have you been lying again, granberry?

SPORTS ILLUSTRATED published a frame-by-frame analysis of the film in its June 7, 1965, issue, concluding that Liston was, in fact, knocked out. In the first panel of a four-shot sequence, Ali is seen pulling back to avoid a Liston jab; in the second, he is planting his weight on his left foot, while throwing a short right hand over Liston's left hand; in the third, the punch is just about to land; in the fourth, Sonny's head is snapped sideways the force of the blow, which actually lifts Liston's left foot -- the one his weight was on -- off the canvas, as can be seen by the shadow under Liston's foot.


LOL

.

[granberry]

collins and his fellow members of the Religion of Ali, along with the NEW YORK TIMES and Sports Illustrated (the ultimate shill magazine for Ali),

have to sell the crap of the fake one round "knockout" of Liston by Ali.

collins thrills to their attempts to pass off that fake as legitimate.

When Ali threw the "punch" that "knocked Liston out,"

he had his entiire weight on his left leg, with his right leg twisted behind him.

So it was impossible to get any weight into the "punch."

But collins thrills to the NEW YORK TIMES 'expert' desperately selling the fight as legitimate

just as I knew collins and his ilk would.

That is why I posted the NEW YORK TIMES boxing 'expert', in all his glory,

explaining why the fake was legitimate.

And of course collins now quotes it as his 'authority.'

The film of the fake fight shows for anyone who knows the rudiments of throwing a punch that the "KO" was a raw fake.

The NEW YORK TIMES idiot posing as a boxing 'authority' (with help from the lady writer for the Village Voice)

unwittingly states that the punch and the fight was a fake

since you can't get any power in a right hand if your weight is on your left leg.

The NEW YORK TIMES gibberish posted above attempting to sell the fake as legitimate is hilarious

and I knew the collins types would just as hilariously lack the ability to comprehend that this pathetic attempt to justify the fight is the billionth example of a "news media" phony posing as an 'expert' in order to sell the polticially correct agenda he has been instructed to sell.

[Collins2000]

many lines of worthless drivel while trying to avoid the question.

So, I'll ask it again.

granberry, why did you keep repeating that the article that you posted used the word 'before' after it had been pointed out that, as usual, you were wrong?

LOL

.

[granberry]

The fight was fake.

The "punch" was a fake.

All collins has to clutch to is his Sports Illustrated and NEW YORK TIMES (not to mention the lady from the Village Voice)

trying to sell the fake fight and the fake "punch" as legitimate.

LOL

[BoxBuzz]

granberry have you ever seen the frame by frame? How did Liston fake the remarkable and clearly viewable "car crash" moment when his head snapped from the punch? It snaps AS IF something of considerable force had just landed.

Since it was impossible for this to happen according to you, how did this temple shot have all the physic reactions on his body AS IF something of considerable force had just taken place? Was he able to "mock" or "emulate" such reactions by will?

If so then he is a grandmaster of the illusion, if not...well if not, something intervened..... at just that moment, from what Steven Hawkings would consider one of the "other 20 plus dimensions of reality" that apparently exist.

Now if this is the case there was a conspiracy indeed....and just as you say....the truth is out there.

Now as for the blow itself, it was not enough to keep Liston planted but he was clearly separated from his senses for a short bit of time. A span of time astronomically dwarfed by how long you have been separated from yours.

[granberry]

granberry have you ever seen the frame by frame? How did Liston fake the remarkable and clearly viewable "car crash" moment when his head snapped from the punch? It snaps AS IF something of considerable force had just landed.

Since it was impossible for this to happen according to you, how did this temple shot have all the physic reactions on his body AS IF something of considerable force had just taken place? Was he able to "mock" or "emulate" such reactions by will?

If so then he is a grandmaster of the illusion, if not...well if not, something intervened..... at just that moment, from what Steven Hawkings would consider one of the "other 20 plus dimensions of reality" that apparently exist.

Now if this is the case there was a conspiracy indeed....and just as you say....the truth is out there.

Now as for the blow itself, it was not enough to keep Liston planted but he was clearly separated from his senses for a short bit of time. A span of time astronomically dwarfed by how long you have been separated from yours.

buzz and his cohorts sell tripe in their desperate attempt to justify their icon and the fakery he was involved in.

The fact that Ali stood there and yelled at Liston is a dead giveaway he knew the "punch" was nothing.

"It was a phony" was the comment of George Chuvalo.

But the New York Times and buzz and the lady from the Village Voice know better.

Sell your stinking tripe, buzz.

[BoxBuzz]

granberry have you ever seen the frame by frame? How did Liston fake the remarkable and clearly viewable "car crash" moment when his head snapped from the punch? It snaps AS IF something of considerable force had just landed.

Since it was impossible for this to happen according to you, how did this temple shot have all the physic reactions on his body AS IF something of considerable force had just taken place? Was he able to "mock" or "emulate" such reactions by will?

If so then he is a grandmaster of the illusion, if not...well if not, something intervened..... at just that moment, from what Steven Hawkings would consider one of the "other 20 plus dimensions of reality" that apparently exist.

Now if this is the case there was a conspiracy indeed....and just as you say....the truth is out there.

Now as for the blow itself, it was not enough to keep Liston planted but he was clearly separated from his senses for a short bit of time. A span of time astronomically dwarfed by how long you have been separated from yours.

buzz and his cohorts sell tripe in their desperate attempt to justify their icon and the fakery he was involved in.

The fact that Ali stood there and yelled at Liston is a dead giveaway he knew the "punch" was nothing.

"It was a phony" was the comment of George Chuvalo.

But the New York Times and buzz and the lady from the Village Voice know better.

Sell your stinking tripe, buzz.

tripe? It's not tripe it's just a bit controversial UNTIL you actually look at the facts AND listen to what at least someone besides yourself is saying.

I never said it was a KO punch....but I do think it took his confidence away. He was not game for this battle that he KNEW he could not win. It all started when the date got changed and he felt he could not match the shape he was in for the original set date. He was psyched out....not that it would have any difference if he wasn't. He did not have the skill, the will, or the chops to get the job done that night. Accept it, find peace. I promise I will accept your apology when it eventually comes, as I know it will. We'll get together and I'll accept that beer you'll want to buy me as you explain how you just sometimes get carried away with your hard headed nature.

Why do you belabor this point so much? You yourself know you don't truly believe a word your saying on this subject........it's just your desperate attempt at revisionism. Your hysteria on this subject is always entertaining. And I will look forward to your future desperation and futile attempts to change what is and was, into your personally substituted and imagined history.

[granberry]

buzz should use his psychic ability (he can read Sonny Liston's thoughts)

in the financial world and he would be a zillionaire.

buzz thinks you can put your weight on your left leg to throw a right hand

but he KNOWS Liston's thoughts. LOL

The fight was a FAKE.

The "punch" was a FAKE.

Everybody knows that except Ali shills.

Ali couldn't hurt Doug Jones and barely got out of his fight with 185 pound Henry Cooper

but now he can suddenly "knock out" Sonny Liston with a single punch.

LOL

All the Thomas Hausers, Norman Mailers, NEW YORK TIMES 'authorities' and women writers from the Village Voice and their ilk combined will never make that fake legitimate.
.

[Collins2000]

wrote a load of twaddle

granberry, can I assume by the fact that you have now stopped quoting the word 'before' that you have finally realised it was NEVER in the article you hysterically posted?

Of course, if you weren't such a eunuch, you'd have the balls to admit it.

LOL
.

[granberry]

collins, the female snake of boxrec,

has never asnwered my question about reporting back to all of us with Baltazar's answer to the question

did he teach his kids to throw a right hand by putting their weight on the left leg in order to throw it.

collins will never answer that question.

Next collins should ask Baltazar if he taught his son Tony to throw his left hook by first putting his weight on his right leg. LOL

collins is the the single most rabid Ali shill on boxrec

and he just cannot accept that his hero's "knockout" is a raw fake.

Poor collins.

It's tough belonging a religion based on a series of frauds.

[I Feel Fine]

I think granberry annoys people so much that, even when he's probably right, some find it hard to agree with anything he has to say.

I do tend to think that the knock down itself was legitimate, even if the knock out wasn't, he may have been caught by surprise by the shot and went down. Maybe Ali knocked him down legitimately, and Liston figured "f-ck it, I'm not going to even bother" and stayed down?

Either way, I'm sure he could have gotten up. There were rumors that there were snipers coming to kill Ali, in light of Malcolm X recently being assassinated, or there were rumors that if Liston won the black Muslims would kill him, and so Liston wanted to get out of there ASAP. Or maybe the point someone made earlier is right, about how Liston didn't get up because Ali was dancing and hopping around the ring, and that this was the reason why Liston thought he could stay down. But, whatever the reason, I think its likely he could have gotten up in time. I don't think Ali hit him hard enough to knock him out, though anything is possible. Liston had a great chin. Leotis Martin had to drill him into the ground to KO him, and even that was an older Liston.

Its a confusing situation. The only thing we do know is that a punch did land, the idea that there was a "phantom punch" is clearly wrong, Ali did connect. The question is how hard.

[granberry]

Here it is straight from the NEW YORK TIMES expert Allen Bara

Just past the first minute of the first round, Ali knocked Liston cold,

Barbara Long, who covered the fight for The Village Voice and was seated behind Ali's corner, recalled that Liston had reacted, when hit, ''like a man on a bicycle hitting a low-lying branch.''

Good to get these 'authorities' to weigh in and dispense their knowledge.

No major crime figure was known to have made big money from betting on Clay in the first fight;

Yes, "major crime figures" always have a notarized description of their bets printed in the paper

Nor has any Black Muslim involvement, like a threat against Liston's life, ever been proven.

And of course Black Muslims always notarize their threats and have them printed in the paper.

[p4p1]

Boxing expert granberry stated several times:

If a southpaw threw a left hook he'd punch himself in the face

LOL

It's lucky granberry has never had anything to do with training fighters

LOL

.

A lot you know Collins, the reason granberry can speak with authority on this issue is that HE IS A SOUTHPAW and proves this bit of physics on a daily basis. It actually explains a lot....

Now don't you feel foolish for doubting?

im a southpaw and have dropped people with a left hook i dont see why i would hit myself in the face

[observer1]

Well the first time saw the "Phantom Punch", before i ever read into this conspiracy mumbo-jumbo, i thought it was a legitimiate Punch and Legitimate Knockout.

As good as Liston was, you have to accept he was simply schooled that fight.

Cue the Shill nonesense from granberry

[Ezzard]

I think granberry annoys people so much that, even when he's probably right, some find it hard to agree with anything he has to say.

I do tend to think that the knock down itself was legitimate, even if the knock out wasn't, he may have been caught by surprise by the shot and went down. Maybe Ali knocked him down legitimately, and Liston figured "f-ck it, I'm not going to even bother" and stayed down?

Either way, I'm sure he could have gotten up. There were rumors that there were snipers coming to kill Ali, in light of Malcolm X recently being assassinated, or there were rumors that if Liston won the black Muslims would kill him, and so Liston wanted to get out of there ASAP. Or maybe the point someone made earlier is right, about how Liston didn't get up because Ali was dancing and hopping around the ring, and that this was the reason why Liston thought he could stay down. But, whatever the reason, I think its likely he could have gotten up in time. I don't think Ali hit him hard enough to knock him out, though anything is possible. Liston had a great chin. Leotis Martin had to drill him into the ground to KO him, and even that was an older Liston.

Its a confusing situation. The only thing we do know is that a punch did land, the idea that there was a "phantom punch" is clearly wrong, Ali did connect. The question is how hard.

I think this is a good take on it.

If Nunn had fought Kalambay 10 times he wouldn't have stopped him in the 1st again. Carter could not do the same against Griffith. Smith would never have beaten Witherspoon in 1 again if they'd had a 100 rematches.

I think Liston got dropped early by a fast shot that he could have shrugged off later in the fight. I don't know if there was a fix or not. I just think liston could have got up and I think Ali knew it.