Help find Enzo Calzaghe's marbles...

fist · Post by **fist** » 20 Mar 2008, 14:10

THEBUTCH wrote:Enzo Calzaghe quotes have put himself in a bad light. What a sore loser. Big Mac got a BIG hiding so she should show some sportsmanship, like Warren did who whent straight over and shook Haye's hand, or just shut his trap.

If Haye is nothing special as he seems to be indicating then Maccarinelli must be a very ordinary boxer indeed, seeing as he got completely anhilated.

I dont think they do put him in a bad light. I think he's correct in what he says - Macca made mistakes and he can learn from them. Even with the power that Haye boasts about he still didnt achieve the KO and he had plenty of free shots when Macca was dazed. As for not rating David Haye, well thats Enzo's opinion and to be honest I agree to an extent in that I still have many doubts over the bloke - chin, stamina and heart.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Mar 2008, 14:47

And let's not forget, he stood on the ropes waving in Carl Thompson, and took his beating like a real warrior, after totally running out og gas and being decked.

A fighter of feint heart would have stayed down or turned their back.

You can question Haye's stamina, or possibly his chin, but he's shown enough to be respected in the heart department.

He also came through serious cuts to beat Fragomenni.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 20 Mar 2008, 15:52

i dont even question his stamina any more, he fought at a decent pace against fragomeni and showed he can carry his power late too.

Fragomeni was such a tough guy, noone has been able to take haye's shots like he did for a lot of that fight.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 20 Mar 2008, 17:08

I agree that the Fragomeni fight taught us a lot about Haye that has since been confirmed at the highest level.

And to suggest Haye didn't manage to KO Enzo is somewhat churlish.

Ally-M1 · Post by **Ally-M1** » 20 Mar 2008, 17:20

Enzo Calzaghe's comments on Haye in my opinion were somewhat wide of the mark... He is clearly not looking at the same fight most of us did...

That aside, I understand if he is trying to build Enzo Maccarinelli's confidence - and it may well work... Maccarinelli's confdence right now will be an all time low... Hopefully (for British Boxing) he'll regroup and stay in the top mix at Cruiserweight...

As for Haye, I hope and believe he'll be a success at Heavyweight... Top marks for having the bollox to stepup and go for it.

E · Post by E » 20 Mar 2008, 18:43

The thing is, and I'm not excusing his point of view, that Enzo Cal's sligt madness is also the key to his success, is one-mindedness, his no-sit taking persona.

Myself personally I think he's great and one of boxing's true characters.

his reputaion is well on the line this year though with macca losing, then Rees and his son in big tests.

fist · Post by **fist** » 20 Mar 2008, 22:02

E wrote:The thing is, and I'm not excusing his point of view, that Enzo Cal's sligt madness is also the key to his success, is one-mindedness, his no-sit taking persona.

Myself personally I think he's great and one of boxing's true characters.

his reputaion is well on the line this year though with macca losing, then Rees and his son in big tests.

good post

fist · Post by **fist** » 21 Mar 2008, 13:05

[quote="jamesmcdonnell"]And let's not forget, he stood on the ropes waving in Carl Thompson, and took his beating like a real warrior, after totally running out og gas and being decked.

quote]

Nonetheless, his chin is questionable. An older Thompson KO'd him - a much smaller Eubank did better than Haye against a young Thompson, and Eubank was past it.

Haye has speed and power, but he will get put down again qithout question. Still needs to prove his stamina, still needs to clock up more fights - the guy comes across as a part timer - couple of fights a year and thats it. 22 fights is his lot so far.

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 21 Mar 2008, 13:24

Enzo Calzaghe's record speaks for itself, can't beleive people question mark his ability over one of his fighters getting beat against an opponent he was never going to beat regardless. The same people on this forum are asking for boxers to take bigger fights to take on the best stop avoiding each other then turn against the boxer or trainer etc when the guy loses. It seems now all it takes is one defeat then they are either washed up or not very good in the first place. It seems that when someone gets recognition for there ability (recently enzo calzaghe for his coaching achievements) everybody seems to try to take them down a peg. What is the reason for this is it down to their own lack of achievement.

fist · Post by **fist** » 21 Mar 2008, 13:31

bbjc wrote:Enzo Calzaghe's record speaks for itself, can't beleive people question mark his ability over one of his fighters getting beat against an opponent he was never going to beat regardless. The same people on this forum are asking for boxers to take bigger fights to take on the best stop avoiding each other then turn against the boxer or trainer etc when the guy loses. It seems now all it takes is one defeat then they are either washed up or not very good in the first place. It seems that when someone gets recognition for there ability (recently enzo calzaghe for his coaching achievements) everybody seems to try to take them down a peg. What is the reason for this is it down to their own lack of achievement.

Cos their miserable sad bistards thats why. Boxing is entertainment and all boxers and trainers deserve some recognition for their contribution. Many of the arm chair pundits on this site are never happy and rarely seem to enjoy the sport.

fist · Post by **fist** » 21 Mar 2008, 13:47

Terry D wrote:
fist wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:And let's not forget, he stood on the ropes waving in Carl Thompson, and took his beating like a real warrior, after totally running out og gas and being decked.

quote]

Nonetheless, his chin is questionable. An older Thompson KO'd him - a much smaller Eubank did better than Haye against a young Thompson, and Eubank was past it.

Haye has speed and power, but he will get put down again qithout question. Still needs to prove his stamina, still needs to clock up more fights - the guy comes across as a part timer - couple of fights a year and thats it. 22 fights is his lot so far.
He had to wait for the Mormeck fight last year as it was moved back once. How long was it between dethoring Mormeck and him brushing aside Enzo? He had a few EBU fights in succession and that activity got him his shot at Mormeck.

Thompson did not cleanly KO him. As mentioned he was on his feet after taking a number of right hands to the chin, the one that put him down was to the top of his head, Haye got up and threw back. He actually waved Thompson in after taking the last big shot and the last punch of the fight was a right hand thrown by Haye that missed the target. Not bad for a guy with no chin. Plenty of guys would have been gone after those right hands.

Haye will be put over again at some point but it is likely to be against top opposition and he is even more likely to get up and fire back.

Saying he has no chin, stamina, heart or resolve is more than a little bit stupid isn't it?

Did you go for Enzo by any chance

Not a fan of Macca mate. Wasnt bothered that he lost. Though he seems like a good bloke. My criticisms of Haye are genuine. He's been put down numerous times in a realtively inactive career. Not sure about his stamina or chin. Thompson sorted him out and as said, a much smaller and past it Eubank faired better against a younger Thompson. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. As for Haye as a boxing personality, he seems arrogant.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 21 Mar 2008, 14:16

fist wrote:
bbjc wrote:Enzo Calzaghe's record speaks for itself, can't beleive people question mark his ability over one of his fighters getting beat against an opponent he was never going to beat regardless. The same people on this forum are asking for boxers to take bigger fights to take on the best stop avoiding each other then turn against the boxer or trainer etc when the guy loses. It seems now all it takes is one defeat then they are either washed up or not very good in the first place. It seems that when someone gets recognition for there ability (recently enzo calzaghe for his coaching achievements) everybody seems to try to take them down a peg. What is the reason for this is it down to their own lack of achievement.
Cos their miserable sad bistards thats why. Boxing is entertainment and all boxers and trainers deserve some recognition for their contribution. Many of the arm chair pundits on this site are never happy and rarely seem to enjoy the sport.

Surely you're contradicting yourself, though? On the one hand you are nitpicking a fighter who has just...

* Travelled to France to knock out the leading fighter in his division
* Put it all on the line against a fellow domestic fighter he didn't need
* Knocked out said domestic fighter without breaking sweat
* Unified the WBC/WBA/WBO and Ring Mag titles quicker than anyone else I can remember
* Emerged as a genuine force for Great Britain up at heavyweight

...And on the other hand you're saying people should lay off Enzo Calzaghe for one loss and enjoy boxing a little more. By all means, slate Haye when/if he gets beaten again. But, in the mean time, surely he's one of the good things people should be getting excited about within British boxing?

If I'm wrong, just say...

Also, one defeat doesn't make a man, right? Well how come you'd rather analyse the David Haye who lost early in his career to CT than the one who's just demolished Mormeck and Maccarinelli? Enzo Calzaghe shouldn't be scrutinised because of his ONE DEFEAT, should he?

bbjc · Post by **bbjc** » 21 Mar 2008, 14:31

think you're getting mixed up with the different postings m8 i ve never mentioned Haye

fist · Post by **fist** » 21 Mar 2008, 17:12

Eraserhead wrote:
fist wrote:
bbjc wrote:Enzo Calzaghe's record speaks for itself, can't beleive people question mark his ability over one of his fighters getting beat against an opponent he was never going to beat regardless. The same people on this forum are asking for boxers to take bigger fights to take on the best stop avoiding each other then turn against the boxer or trainer etc when the guy loses. It seems now all it takes is one defeat then they are either washed up or not very good in the first place. It seems that when someone gets recognition for there ability (recently enzo calzaghe for his coaching achievements) everybody seems to try to take them down a peg. What is the reason for this is it down to their own lack of achievement.
Cos their miserable sad bistards thats why. Boxing is entertainment and all boxers and trainers deserve some recognition for their contribution. Many of the arm chair pundits on this site are never happy and rarely seem to enjoy the sport.
Surely you're contradicting yourself, though? On the one hand you are nitpicking a fighter who has just...

* Travelled to France to knock out the leading fighter in his division
* Put it all on the line against a fellow domestic fighter he didn't need
* Knocked out said domestic fighter without breaking sweat
* Unified the WBC/WBA/WBO and Ring Mag titles quicker than anyone else I can remember
* Emerged as a genuine force for Great Britain up at heavyweight

...And on the other hand you're saying people should lay off Enzo Calzaghe for one loss and enjoy boxing a little more. By all means, slate Haye when/if he gets beaten again. But, in the mean time, surely he's one of the good things people should be getting excited about within British boxing?

If I'm wrong, just say...

Also, one defeat doesn't make a man, right? Well how come you'd rather analyse the David Haye who lost early in his career to CT than the one who's just demolished Mormeck and Maccarinelli? Enzo Calzaghe shouldn't be scrutinised because of his ONE DEFEAT, should he?

I see where your coming from mate, but to clarify, Im no fan of Macca and I dont think there's much to say other than Haye was better and that Macca made some major mistakes. And the reason for my statements regarding David Haye is simply because he has won belts in his last few fights, had some deserved acclaim and I have an opinion on him, in that I dont think he has the longeveity that some others on this forum do, I still have questions about his chin and stamina. So its no mystery mate. I am in no way defending Macca, he lost end of. And as for Haye, I dont rate him that much yet. Likewise, I agree with plenty of Enzo's comments. Hope that puts in context for you.