Can Hatton ever train as hard....

[tony3]

Hatton outweghted PBF by about 7lbs on the night.

SKILLS BEAT HIM - THE WEIGHT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

HATTON NEEDS TO BE BIGGER AND STRONGER THAN IS OPPONENT TO WIN.

BUT THIS TIME.....that was not enough.

Hattons beaten...

DOWN

Floyd got in there with one of the luckiest punches I have ever, and I mean ever, seen in my whole life, if Cortez hadn't have been protecting FM like the crown jewels, Hatton would beaten him from pillar to post to be frank I think he would also have been too much for Sugar Ray Leonard and as for Duran, it would have been a complete mismatch Hatton does him in five, tops.


Before you send a virus to my computer D.G - I'm just kidding.

I knew the moment you said 'luckiest'!

I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was intended.

I changed it at the last minute (albeit seconds too late)because I wasn't entirely sure how you'd react.

[DG.]

Floyd got in there with one of the luckiest punches I have ever, and I mean ever, seen in my whole life, if Cortez hadn't have been protecting FM like the crown jewels, Hatton would beaten him from pillar to post to be frank I think he would also have been too much for Sugar Ray Leonard and as for Duran, it would have been a complete mismatch Hatton does him in five, tops.


Before you send a virus to my computer D.G - I'm just kidding.

I knew the moment you said 'luckiest'!

I'm glad you took that in the spirit it was intended.

I changed it at the last minute (albeit seconds too late)because I wasn't entirely sure how you'd react.

In my book,the only joke is a gift to Hatton fans that COSTS them £15.00!


WTF!!

[states]

Who knows how it'll go with Hatton. I have no doubt that he'll get down to 140 as well as he's done all his career. Will the Mayweather fight prey on his mind? Perhaps. He hadn't lost for a long time. But he was knocked out as an amateur and managed a very solid career after that.

It could be that, back in Manchester, against a guy he should beat, he'll look as good as he did in his WBU days. I doubt we'll see the movement and footwork the young Hatton had, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him overwhelm Lazcano. And Lazcano would have been a step up from the Vilches/Rios of this world.

He found his level, no shame there. Especially as it was a level or two above the level I thought he'd reach.

[Grilling Machine]

The irony is that Hatton would now lose to a man (Witter), who he had every chance of beating a few years ago. Even if he'd lost that fight, it would've been competitive, leaving Ricky's reputation fully intact; increasing it in all likelihood. Mayweather was always a mistake at welter, in any given year.

140 is the limit for a guy of 5'6". I can make that weight at 5'11", and I'm by no means skeletal. I don't think he'll ever regain prime conditioning, because he's not going to push himself towards the edge again. He must know that Witter is Mr Redemption. The opportunity to win back widely-held respect is right there, waiting with the doors open.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Who knows how it'll go with Hatton. I have no doubt that he'll get down to 140 as well as he's done all his career. Will the Mayweather fight prey on his mind? Perhaps. He hadn't lost for a long time. But he was knocked out as an amateur and managed a very solid career after that.

It could be that, back in Manchester, against a guy he should beat, he'll look as good as he did in his WBU days. I doubt we'll see the movement and footwork the young Hatton had, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him overwhelm Lazcano. And Lazcano would have been a step up from the Vilches/Rios of this world.

He found his level, no shame there. Especially as it was a level or two above the level I thought he'd reach.

It is the abscence of movement which I've noticed most in Hatton, from the Tszyu fight onwards.

He used to work the angles so nicely as a young fighter, now he comes in, in a straight line, and then back out in one, this makes him very easy to hit with straight shots.

Perhaps Hatton simply isn't flexible or agile enough to execute this style of fighting now, I'm not sure, but I would be very surprised to see it return.

I think he will just try and overwhelm Lazcano with brute force, It will be interesting to see how hard or easy a night he has.

[STP]

I think the weight-training has made him more cumbersome.

[harrygreb]

theres some really good posts here. for me mayweather was always going to beat ricky at 147 and taking the fight at that weight was signing it off. at 140 though i think it would have been much closer, probably a points win for PBF if ricky had fought wisely. i cant write him off yet.
after a defeat like that its a great opportunity to get back to what made you a world class fighter in the first place. i agree about his conditioning regime messing him up, though.

[scurlaruntings]

Who knows how it'll go with Hatton. I have no doubt that he'll get down to 140 as well as he's done all his career. Will the Mayweather fight prey on his mind? Perhaps. He hadn't lost for a long time. But he was knocked out as an amateur and managed a very solid career after that.

It could be that, back in Manchester, against a guy he should beat, he'll look as good as he did in his WBU days. I doubt we'll see the movement and footwork the young Hatton had, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him overwhelm Lazcano. And Lazcano would have been a step up from the Vilches/Rios of this world.

He found his level, no shame there. Especially as it was a level or two above the level I thought he'd reach.

It is the abscence of movement which I've noticed most in Hatton, from the Tszyu fight onwards.

He used to work the angles so nicely as a young fighter, now he comes in, in a straight line, and then back out in one, this makes him very easy to hit with straight shots.

Perhaps Hatton simply isn't flexible or agile enough to execute this style of fighting now, I'm not sure, but I would be very surprised to see it return.

I think he will just try and overwhelm Lazcano with brute force, It will be interesting to see how hard or easy a night he has.

See this is what i dont understand. What movement? He never had it before the Kostya fight.He walked forward in straight lines stayed in Kostya`s grill and walked him down. In his fights prior to this he was beating up WBU level opponents.ANY fighter can look good against B and C level opponents of which Hatton always looked great beating up the Stephen Smiths of this world.Now that his moved up in class naturally that has changed.

The reality is simple.Hatton was good but not great.He was never that skilled to begin with and did nothing special other than bully his opponents who invariably had powder puffs for mitts. If Hatton was facing punchers his career wouldnt even have got into 2nd gear. Warren guided him skillfully and Hatton has stayed true to form. Every part of his career has been a classic right place right time and naturally the excuse that he lost to the P4P best -when prior to the fight he and that twat Billy said they knew they were going to win, Lord knows how - always goes down well with his staunchest fans.

The reality is his class isnt even good enough to hang with a guy like Kermit Cintron.ANY of the big names at 47 would eat him alive.Now that 140 is pretty much a wasteland bar Witter, he should be establishing his dominance at the weight.If this was the 140 of 5 years ago Hatton wouldnt even be getting a look in.

[scurlaruntings]

theres some really good posts here. for me mayweather was always going to beat ricky at 147 and taking the fight at that weight was signing it off. at 140 though i think it would have been much closer, probably a points win for PBF if ricky had fought wisely. i cant write him off yet.
after a defeat like that its a great opportunity to get back to what made you a world class fighter in the first place. i agree about his conditioning regime messing him up, though.

And what makes you think that 7lbs is going to be the magical diffrence? To my knowledge Hatton came in at 143.He was close to 140.Wether this fight was fought at 112lbs or 200lbs providing both fighters could make weight Hatton gets beat 10 times out of 10.

Theres no point in arguing the virtues of Hatton PBF at 140 just because 140 is percieved to be Hattons stronger weight. The weight was not the issue here.He simply didnt have the tools to bridge the gulf in class. If Hatton fought Shane Cotto DLH Cintron Williams Margo Zab Judah Witter etc he gets beat.And he gets beat handily.

[fist]

As he did in preparation for Mayweather?

I mean, Ricky appeared to put everything he had int o training camp, & having lost to Floyd, will he be able to recapture the extra motivation he must have had in the months & weeks leading up to the bout with Floyd?

Personally, I don't think Ricky will ever be able to train as hard, put as much effort into his preparation, as he did for Floyd. Mentally, there's no way he could.

of course he can. its up to him. he knows he fought the best in the world and did his best in the early part of the fight, despite being hamperedby the ref. He made the fatal error becoming frustrated and lost to a better boxer. He knows he can still be the best at his natural weight and no reason why he cant have the hunger to reclaim his reputation and status. Im off to his next fight and Im no fan of his. Hopefully will be a good fight and good luck to him

[Grilling Machine]

Theres no point in arguing the virtues of Hatton PBF at 140 just because 140 is percieved to be Hattons stronger weight.

It's not about Hatton's optimal weight, it's about Mayweather's least advantageous.

[scurlaruntings]

Then why not argue the virtues of Hatton vs Vladmir at 140 providing Vlad gets on the atkins diet and cuts both his legs off. The argument is infantile and stupid. 7lbs is not the magical diffrence and DOES not make a blind bit of diffrence in this case. Hatton just isnt good enough end of story.

[rhino222]

hattons movement was always in and out in straight lines, the only time he moved laterally when he was switching with big left and right hands downstairs, bang bang.........bang bang bang.... the opponents would be too pre-occupied and busy digging there elbows into their sides to protect themselves than they were thinking about trying to hit ricky on the way in or on the way out. i have looked at ricky fights time and time again and fighters would cover up and as ricky was on the retreat they would throw a hook..but he was gone by then.

hatton always had speed to get in and out, and his reputation saved his straight lines from being embarrassed.

the hatton of today is slower (apart from the first 3 against urango) and therefore the opponent has time to catch ricky on the way in or on the way out. ricky gets hit and this deters him from unloading his body arsenal, and as he does not have the speed when he gets close therefore he is wide open to counters.

as hatton gets older he gets hit more and therefore he gets slower. his yo yo diet has done him no favours because his training effort and energy is spent losing weight.

i am honestly of the opinion that witter would now wipe the floor with him, junior is very accurate and hits very very hard, harder than PBF in my opinion. the ricky of 3 years ago would potentially have beaten witter, the trouble is that, if the fight was made this year, hatton would start as favourite, due to the amount of cash that the blinkered manc idiots would put on him, the smart money would be on a witter KO in about 4-6 rounds, and i reckon you might get 20-1 for that.

[Spud]

Rhino - boxing is about opinions - I believe myself Junior Witters only chance is as I have always stated catching Ricky in the first 4 rounds.

I have always stated Witter gives Hatton murders for the first few rounds -but if the fight is not over by then we all know Junior has a tendency to either lose concentration, get bored or tire in the latter rounds - and lets face it Ricky rarely does.

1 - 4 rounds its a Witter fight

5th round onwards - Hatton wins.

[chesh]

Rhino - boxing is about opinions - I believe myself Junior Witters only chance is as I have always stated catching Ricky in the first 4 rounds.

I have always stated Witter gives Hatton murders for the first few rounds -but if the fight is not over by then we all know Junior has a tendency to either lose concentration, get bored or tire in the latter rounds - and lets face it Ricky rarely does.

1 - 4 rounds its a Witter fight

5th round onwards - Hatton wins.

Until not so long ago, I would have agreed with you on that, Spud, but Hatton now clearly has stamina issues which lessen both his punch output and punch resistance. I can't imagine Junior losing concentration or getting bored for one second if he had Hatton in the ring with him.

[bbjc]

Not sure ricky has gotten too much slower think it's all down to the level of opponents he is now fighting, these guys don't let you get away with the things hatton done against the guys when he was on the way up. How many times have you seen a boxer early in his career look amazing and you hold really high hopes for him only to see him get found out a bit later on as his career progresses due to the better class of opponent.

This is what has happened to Hatton he is fighting a better standard of opponent, who would have thought 4 years ago when Hatton was fighting Vilches, Pedersen and Oliveira that he would go on to beat Tszyu Castillo and have a competetive fight to a point with Mayweather - in this respect Hatton has exceeded expectations. Hatton in my opinion could have held out for a points defeat against Floyd just like we have seen too much in boxing over the years but instead went for it in the biggest fight of his life and ended up being Ko'd - think people are looking too much into that.

Hatton would beat junior Witter who thoroughly deserves his shot, i am surprised at how hattons boxing record is constantly disected and critisised and yet Witter is being made out to be the super champ when he has clearly not fought at the level of Hatton.

I will be dissappointed if this fight was never made but have no problems with the current opponent for Hatton for his next fight for a comeback with a record of 37-4-1 is not too bad. I ve got a feeling Hatton wants too get back in the ring with the top guys in boxing and will bypass witter at the moment - if this doesn't happen witter must be on the agenda at some point.

[harrygreb]

i think scurls argument is "infantile and stupid". if weight didnt make any difference why didnt floyd take the fight at 140? the guy is right, it is advantages and disadvantages. last time i looked hatton was the best light-welter in the world and until he gets his ass kicked at 140lbs thats how i see him. scurl is just on the anti hatton bandwagon which gets more crowded with idiots every day. its too easy to crit ricky for losing in the way he did against p4p no.1 mayweather at floyds most comfortable weight. (of course, i now wait for the poor performance against lazcano and the inevitable filling of the anti hatton bus with boxing experts).

[scurlaruntings]

i think scurls argument is "infantile and stupid". if weight didnt make any difference why didnt floyd take the fight at 140? the guy is right, it is advantages and disadvantages. last time i looked hatton was the best light-welter in the world and until he gets his ass kicked at 140lbs thats how i see him. scurl is just on the anti hatton bandwagon which gets more crowded with idiots every day. its too easy to crit ricky for losing in the way he did against p4p no.1 mayweather at floyds most comfortable weight. (of course, i now wait for the poor performance against lazcano and the inevitable filling of the anti hatton bus with boxing experts).

The pray tell why didnt Hatton accept the fight against Floyd 2 years ago when they were both at 140. Oh thats right Ricky wasnt ready. The plethora of excuses from Ricky and his die hard fans is utterly shambolic. The facts remain if you have ever got in the ring and fought 7lbs means absolutely squat. Floyd has risen from 130 and been succesful. Why? Because he has the physical tools to hang with fighters naturally heavier than him.

Hatton though clearly DOES NOT. Physically his bigger than Floyd and yet no Hatton fan seems to be capable of understanding that his loss had nothing to do with the ref or 7lbs or the stars not lining up in the sky at night but simply because Floyd was the better fighter.PERIOD.

[dbf]

I can't agree that having the Mayweather fight at 147 was an advantage for Floyd. It was the weight class that Floyd held a title (linear) in and had been operating at prior to the De La Hoya fight.

Floyd tried to make the fight at 140 numerous times, especially after his fight with Gatti and Hatton straight up said 'no, not yet'. Mayweather then chose to move up not adding any considerable bulk.

Mayweather could still have made 140 and if Hatton held the WBC belt (Floyd loves them) and Floyd didn't have a belt at welter then he might have accomdated Hatton at light welter.

Ricky is naturally bigger than Mayweather and on fight night at welter or light welter he would weigh more than, and that is the bottom line.

[harrygreb]

yeah, of course youre right and hatton is as good at 147 as he is at 140lbs. fares please!!!

[dbf]

yeah, of course youre right and hatton is as good at 147 as he is at 140lbs. fares please!!!

The point here is that fighting Mayweather at 147 made no difference as Floyd is not a fully fledged welterweight.

Obviously Ricky wouldn't be as effective at 147 against a Cintron or Margarito.

[harrygreb]

i'd like to point out that human beings vary greatly as to how they put on and shed weight and how that weight is carried. floyd is as natural a welterweight as i have seen. ricky's natural weight is more difficult to ascertain but it is clear he campaigns most effectively at 140lbs.

perhaps i'll suggest to colin lynes - as natural a lightwelter as you'll find - next time i see him that he campaigns at welter from now on because scurl tells me that 7lbs doesnt matter.

[Twinkle Toes]

Mayweather was always going to be the wrong fight for Hatton - Being at 140 or 147 makes no odds in my opinion.

Mayweather campaigned at 130 for a long time before moving onwards and upwards - We can't dismiss this fact.

Regards Hatton, I think we have long seen the best of him - 40+ fights is a long career by any stretch. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lazcano gives him a few problems, although I do expect Hatton to bash/smother his way through it.

[Spud]

I completely agree with the people who state no matter what the weight and no matter what the preparation - Ricky Hatton was never going to and never will beat Floyd Mayweather.

For me the question all of you need to get your teeth into is this - whilst I do not think any sane person can deny Ricky Hatton is without doubt a world class boxer how will he come back from the defeat against Mayweather - do not say he had an easy time - for me it was a slow and painful taking apart of Hatton and yes I stress from the worlds best pound for pound boxer - but nonetheless if was for me a bad defeat - couple that with the struggles against Collazo and the not so easy fight against Urango - I am completely and utterly intrigued how Ricky will fare against Lazcano.

Call me a cynic - but Ricky has just signed with Golden Boy and will be one of their premier fighters - Lazcano is a Golden Boy fighter - put 2 and 2 together and then make 5 with regards to the outcome of this fight - it is clearly going to be a win for Hatton but how will he look - will he ever be good enough again to take on the best pound for pound fighters in the world??

[scurlaruntings]

i'd like to point out that human beings vary greatly as to how they put on and shed weight and how that weight is carried. floyd is as natural a welterweight as i have seen. ricky's natural weight is more difficult to ascertain but it is clear he campaigns most effectively at 140lbs.

perhaps i'll suggest to colin lynes - as natural a lightwelter as you'll find - next time i see him that he campaigns at welter from now on because scurl tells me that 7lbs doesnt matter.

Good. I see your sound reasoning. Care to argue the virtues of Samuel Peter vs Hatton at 140? Im sure if Peter can chop off his legs he might give Hatton a fair tussle before he succumbs to a Hatton bodyshot