Enzo Calzaghe tonight......

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 22 Mar 2008, 19:51

I have to say its another bad performance from the 'great man'

Now, dont get me wrong, Kotelnik beats Rees 99 out of 100, the defeat isnt Enzos fault...BUT it became clear after round 3 that his tactics wernt working, the body shots wernt landing and nothing was going to the head!!!

As Bunce asked, why didnt he start to bring shots up, why did he stick with a plan that wasnt working?? All you heard was Enzo swearing and giving little or no direction..

Sorry, Enzo is a fitness coach but it strikes me he has made a career riding Joes coat tails..and to be honest, anyone could make Joe a champ, it takes more than that to be a great.

Oh, all the best to Rees, a brave lad and a credit to our beloved sport

bigdave82 · Post by **bigdave82** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:03

It's not so much making Joe the champ as keeping him motivated through so many fights.

Many other fighters (Jones for example) lost that spirit and paid for it.

mrkh · Post by **mrkh** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:16

i always find it amazing when i think that chris eubank claims he trained himself.

mrkh · Post by **mrkh** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:16

(used to tape his own hands, too, old eubank)

Cannibal · Post by **Cannibal** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:36

The body shots were definitely landing, they just weren't having an effect.

All Enzo fighters have top stamina and are urged to throw punches in bunches. Strategy wise I don't think many of them apart from Calzaghe have plan B's.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:42

Cannibal wrote:The body shots were definitely landing, they just weren't having an effect.

All Enzo fighters have top stamina and are urged to throw punches in bunches. Strategy wise I don't think many of them apart from Calzaghe have plan B's.

I think this is the problem...it does appear to be "I will get you really fot, you go in and throw lots of punches..it worked for Joe"

It has been asked before as to why Enzo doesnt bring in sparring partners, guys to imitate the style of the opponent...it could be argues that it doesnt matter as they will fight in the same manner anyway!!

Look at the Lockett thread..when asked by Hooky about sparring for Pavlik Calzaghe and Cleverley are mentioned..is that preperation??

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Mar 2008, 20:50

Enzo should drop his no weights policy, Rees could of benefited from strength training to at least last the distance and Maccarinelli needs more explosiveness.

Rees should try to fight like Joe either.

Sorry, Enzo is a fitness coach but it strikes me he has made a career riding Joes coat tails..and to be honest, anyone could make Joe a champ, it takes more than that to be a great.

He did Improve Maccarinelli's boxing ability though, a couple of losses doesn't make him as bad as your making.

fist · Post by **fist** » 22 Mar 2008, 21:58

[quote="thepocketrocket"]I think this is the problem...it does appear to be "I will get you really fot, you go in and throw lots of punches..it worked for Joe"

Quote]

Is this post a joke??! what a terribly simplistic assumption. The guy has his credentials and its a bit emabarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything he has done with boxers.

chris_23 · Post by **chris_23** » 22 Mar 2008, 22:11

thepocketrocket wrote:I have to say its another bad performance from the 'great man'

Now, dont get me wrong, Kotelnik beats Rees 99 out of 100, the defeat isnt Enzos fault...BUT it became clear after round 3 that his tactics wernt working, the body shots wernt landing and nothing was going to the head!!!

As Bunce asked, why didnt he start to bring shots up, why did he stick with a plan that wasnt working?? All you heard was Enzo swearing and giving little or no direction..

Sorry, Enzo is a fitness coach but it strikes me he has made a career riding Joes coat tails..and to be honest, anyone could make Joe a champ, it takes more than that to be a great.

Oh, all the best to Rees, a brave lad and a credit to our beloved sport

Love him or loathe him Enzo Calzaghe has a great boxing brain. If that isn't the case then its one hell of a coincidence that he has so many top quality fighters in his camp... OK boxers lose - that after all is boxing but I think its ridiculous to start suggesting he's riding Joe's coat tails...

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 22 Mar 2008, 22:15

Enzo does a better job than 80% of Britain's trainers. Plus he never had to be a boxer to do It.

Two title losses don't change a thing.

fist · Post by **fist** » 22 Mar 2008, 22:18

chris_23 wrote:
thepocketrocket wrote:I have to say its another bad performance from the 'great man'

Now, dont get me wrong, Kotelnik beats Rees 99 out of 100, the defeat isnt Enzos fault...BUT it became clear after round 3 that his tactics wernt working, the body shots wernt landing and nothing was going to the head!!!

As Bunce asked, why didnt he start to bring shots up, why did he stick with a plan that wasnt working?? All you heard was Enzo swearing and giving little or no direction..

Sorry, Enzo is a fitness coach but it strikes me he has made a career riding Joes coat tails..and to be honest, anyone could make Joe a champ, it takes more than that to be a great.

Oh, all the best to Rees, a brave lad and a credit to our beloved sport
Love him or loathe him Enzo Calzaghe has a great boxing brain. If that isn't the case then its one hell of a coincidence that he has so many top quality fighters in his camp... OK boxers lose - that after all is boxing but I think its ridiculous to start suggesting he's riding Joe's coat tails...

absolutely, well said.

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 23 Mar 2008, 00:58

Futch, D'Amato, Arcel, Dundee, Clancy, Steward and Benton. Enzo Calzaghe can't match the talent pools of any of those. Gainford, Goldman or Blackburn would be a better comparison I think.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 23 Mar 2008, 03:57

you have to work with what you have - if Enzo Mac and Rees had won, we would still be lauding him...

I do tend to agree that he is not a great trainer per se, that he has been fortunate to have Joe around, but... he must be doing something a bit right

maybe he is more of a fitness coach and would benefit getting in someone more skills based, ill leave that judgement to someone else

Datsue · Post by **Datsue** » 23 Mar 2008, 06:12

fist wrote: Is this post a joke??! what a terribly simplistic assumption. The guy has his credentials and its a bit emabarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything he has done with boxers.

So explain again how your incessant, bitter-sounding loathing for David Haye (who once again, has accomplished more in his 22 fight career than Macaroni or Rees with their inflated records built on fighting scrubs, corpses & muppets) is not a "simplistic assumption", & how it is not "embarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything" David has done -- like winning the undisputed world title away from home against the consensus number one in the decision?

Yet you jump to defend the Calzaghes at every turn.

The idea of someone whose carreer path does not involve sitting at home for years fighting bums -- which you term "paying dues"; fvck you'd have a haemorraghe at the way the Thais & Mexicans do things! -- & then going out & fighting for proper titles really gets up your tits, doesn't it? Is it perhaps because it shows up the lack of balls shown by your idols (& there is no real need to point them out, you jump to defend them no matter what).

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit too personal, but you're a snake. You've snipe at Haye any chance you can -- with nonsensical nitpicking, crass semantic carping ("if he's such a big puncher why didn't he REALLY KO Enzo" is near enough verbatim what you said) -- yet you have the pomposity to get on your fvcking high horse when someone who doesn't do things right gets some stick.

I really don't mind your ill-thought out opinions, your biased worldiview or your dodgy reasoning, but your constant reality-denying baiting of others (always with that same fvcking boring "armchair" line -- I'm sitting at a computer swivelly chair, for your info) is getting rather old.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 23 Mar 2008, 06:40

Datsue wrote:
fist wrote: Is this post a joke??! what a terribly simplistic assumption. The guy has his credentials and its a bit emabarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything he has done with boxers.
So explain again how your incessant, bitter-sounding loathing for David Haye (who once again, has accomplished more in his 22 fight career than Macaroni or Rees with their inflated records built on fighting scrubs, corpses & muppets) is not a "simplistic assumption", & how it is not "embarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything" David has done -- like winning the undisputed world title away from home against the consensus number one in the decision?

Yet you jump to defend the Calzaghes at every turn.

The idea of someone whose carreer path does not involve sitting at home for years fighting bums -- which you term "paying dues"; fvck you'd have a haemorraghe at the way the Thais & Mexicans do things! -- & then going out & fighting for proper titles really gets up your tits, doesn't it? Is it perhaps because it shows up the lack of balls shown by your idols (& there is no real need to point them out, you jump to defend them no matter what).

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit too personal, but you're a snake. You've snipe at Haye any chance you can -- with nonsensical nitpicking, crass semantic carping ("if he's such a big puncher why didn't he REALLY KO Enzo" is near enough verbatim what you said) -- yet you have the pomposity to get on your fvcking high horse when someone who doesn't do things right gets some stick.

I really don't mind your ill-thought out opinions, your biased worldiview or your dodgy reasoning, but your constant reality-denying baiting of others (always with that same fvcking boring "armchair" line -- I'm sitting at a computer swivelly chair, for your info) is getting rather old.

Damn, talk about an old-fashioned rinsing. Spot on with each and every point.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 23 Mar 2008, 06:49

I will state again Pocket - how on earth can you "water down" Enzo Calzaghes credentials as a trainer - what he has achieved some trainers can only continue to dream about.

Yeah okay like everyone sometimes Enzo may make the odd mistake here and there - f*ck me he is only human!!! - but how many times Pocket have you been sat on your "potty" watching the boxing and heard the trainers talking in between rounds for the boxer to do the complete opposite once the bell rings.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:01

Spud wrote:I will state again Pocket - how on earth can you "water down" Enzo Calzaghes credentials as a trainer - what he has achieved some trainers can only continue to dream about.

Yeah okay like everyone sometimes Enzo may make the odd mistake here and there - f*ck me he is only human!!! - but how many times Pocket have you been sat on your "potty" watching the boxing and heard the trainers talking in between rounds for the boxer to do the complete opposite once the bell rings.

Come off it Spud, you know and I know that there are systemic problems with the way the Newbridge camp do things, Joe can get away with it due to raw talent, guys like Rees and maccrinelli need more than that..how the hell was sparring with Bradley Pryce gonna help Rees fight Kotelnik, a defensive master with accurate shots??? Come on Spud!!

Enzo has a lot of good points, his fitness regime is incredible, hes one hell of a motivator and he has helped turn round careers of guys who were going off the rails, I RESPECT HIM...but he needs to get someone more tactically astute in the gym, drop the no weights policy and get some bloody sparring partners in if he wants his fighters to improve..

Whats so wrong in me saying that??

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:19

Pocket - you mention Joe Calzaghe's raw talent lets him get away with it - Rees and Maccarinelli both won world titles - if it wasn't raw talent which got them there then surely you have to give the trainer an immense amount of credit for getting them there in position to fight for world titles.

thepocketrocket · Post by **thepocketrocket** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:26

Spud wrote:Pocket - you mention Joe Calzaghe's raw talent lets him get away with it - Rees and Maccarinelli both won world titles - if it wasn't raw talent which got them there then surely you have to give the trainer an immense amount of credit for getting them there in position to fight for world titles.

Yes Spud, it was conditioning and motivation, things I have already mentioned!!

But if you look at it in the cold light of day you see that Macc won his title when he fought ol Marcelo Dominguez and Rees beat an Mbaye who thought that all he had to do was turn up and win(what a great night though!!) against that kind of opposition you can get by on conditioning and workrate..but are you telling me that you dont need more than that to beat Haye and Kotelnik??

Kotelnik went to Austria and spent 3 months fighting small guys to imitate Rees' style, Rees stayed in the Newbridge camp...who was more prepared Spud????

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:31

Spud wrote:Pocket - you mention Joe Calzaghe's raw talent lets him get away with it - Rees and Maccarinelli both won world titles - if it wasn't raw talent which got them there then surely you have to give the trainer an immense amount of credit for getting them there in position to fight for world titles.

Calzaghe definitely installs confidence in his fighters. No doubt about that. But when you're winning 'world titles' against Marcelo Dominguez/Mark Hobson and Souley M'Baye, I'd say Enzo and Rees' title success had as much to do with the matchmaker as the trainer. As for getting into position for a world title... Neither Rees or Enzo beat anyone leading into their title fights. Again, wonderful matchmaking.

chris s · Post by **chris s** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:35

Fighters make the trainers.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:47

Enzo does a superb job with fitness and motivation. Maybe tactics dont always work but the success rate of the team has been superb until recently. Kotelnik was just too good for Rees but Rees fought hard and his workrate was excellant. The problem was Kotelnik was the one with the telling, hurtful punches that eventually got him the stoppage. As we know all three judges had Kotelnik winning so the result would have been the same had Rees survived. Rees caused an enormous upset getting the title against all the odds. He isnt really world class so nobody should be that surprised to see him beaten. Lets not blame Enzo he did what he could with what he had in Rees and thats that.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 23 Mar 2008, 07:56

chris s wrote:Fighters make the trainers.

They do thats true, but a good trainer can sometimes get the extra out of a talented fighter to make him a champion.

fist · Post by **fist** » 23 Mar 2008, 08:48

Datsue wrote:
fist wrote: Is this post a joke??! what a terribly simplistic assumption. The guy has his credentials and its a bit emabarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything he has done with boxers.
So explain again how your incessant, bitter-sounding loathing for David Haye (who once again, has accomplished more in his 22 fight career than Macaroni or Rees with their inflated records built on fighting scrubs, corpses & muppets) is not a "simplistic assumption", & how it is not "embarrassing for you to sit in your armchair and try to undermine everything" David has done -- like winning the undisputed world title away from home against the consensus number one in the decision?

Yet you jump to defend the Calzaghes at every turn.

The idea of someone whose carreer path does not involve sitting at home for years fighting bums -- which you term "paying dues"; fvck you'd have a haemorraghe at the way the Thais & Mexicans do things! -- & then going out & fighting for proper titles really gets up your tits, doesn't it? Is it perhaps because it shows up the lack of balls shown by your idols (& there is no real need to point them out, you jump to defend them no matter what).

I'm sorry if this all seems a bit too personal, but you're a snake. You've snipe at Haye any chance you can -- with nonsensical nitpicking, crass semantic carping ("if he's such a big puncher why didn't he REALLY KO Enzo" is near enough verbatim what you said) -- yet you have the pomposity to get on your fvcking high horse when someone who doesn't do things right gets some stick.

I really don't mind your ill-thought out opinions, your biased worldiview or your dodgy reasoning, but your constant reality-denying baiting of others (always with that same fvcking boring "armchair" line -- I'm sitting at a computer swivelly chair, for your info) is getting rather old.

What the feck! Lol. Mate your talking crap. I dont loathe David Haye! Exaggeration on your part mate. I said there are still questions I have regarding his chin, stamina and what seems to be a low frequency of fights (maybe there are reasons for the latter). Ive explained my reasons for having these doubts.

Now as for my defence of Enzo Calzaghe in this context, I think it is unfair to undermine everything he has achieved at his gym and the plaudits he has recieved lately. Just my opinion mate and a bit strange on your part to start comparing that to my doubts over David Haye's longevity. Also, for the record, I am no bloody fan of Rees or Macca, though the latter seems like a decent bloke. As for Joe Calzaghe, yep, I am fan of his, I think he is the Best British Boxer and one of the best SMWs ever. So hope that clarifies things for you, you horrible little ficker.

dbf · Post by **dbf** » 23 Mar 2008, 09:02

chris s wrote:Fighters make the trainers.

I can't fully agree with this statement. Brendan Ingle for example, made plenty of fighters, and continues to do so.

Enzo Calzaghe tonight......

Enzo Calzaghe tonight......

Re: Enzo Calzaghe tonight......

Re: Enzo Calzaghe tonight......