THE DEBATE: REAL WORLD TITLES OR WBO & INTERIM TITLES

[overhand_right]

Here's one for ya: How would The Battersea Bombers career panned out had he signed with Fwankie Warren in 2001 instead of Don King?

Warren would not have sent over his colourful British, Commonwealth and European champ to the states to box a DK fighter on a DK bill as Eastman actually did v Joppy.

So, he'd be boxing Armand Krajnc in London for the vacant WBO strap, a fight im sure even Eastmans most adamant detractors (the entire British boxrec forum bar Overhand) would concede he'd win easily.

Which of course would kick off a long string of WBO defences in and around the UK against FWs carefully vetted opponents (washed up, weight drained, coming off a loss, US clubfighters, brain damaged ex-names et al). Queue Julio Cesar Green, Haccine Cherifi and the Usual Suspects.

Eastman, under FW & his easy opponents, could easily of put together a long reign under these circumstances, instead of challenging the best in their backyard which is what he really did.

Since the most of you regard FWs fighters as real world champions for holding WBO belts and never fighting/getting knocked out by the legitimate world champ, shouldn't Eastman be given more respect for challenging the best for genuine world titles?

Which is the more admirable: challenging and losing a genuine world title fight, or amassing a string of defences over carefully chosen opponents in the very loosely regulated WBO or WBU rankings....?

"I dont want to be a WBO champion, that's too easy. I want to be like Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan and Julian Jackson and win a real world title". Joe Calzaghe, 1995.

[Lenny]

Eastman's opposition outside of Joppy and Hopkins was so poor though. If he was to beat Krajnc it would rank up there as one of his best wins. And Joppy was hardly the top guy in the division when Eastman fought him.

And to say...

Which of course would kick off a long string of WBO defences in and around the UK against FWs carefully vetted opponents (washed up, weight drained, coming off a loss, US clubfighters, brain damaged ex-names et al). Queue Julio Cesar Green, Haccine Cherifi and the Usual Suspects.

He fought Cherifi! He was old and past it remember

[banjo]

If I were a pro boxer i'd probably use the WBO belt to get my foot on the ladder but I certainly would't call my self a world champion until i'd unified it with at least 2 other belts.

I think it's a useful belt as some major stars held it early on in their careers examples being DLH, Benn and Cotto.

[boxingchat]

Here's one for ya: How would The Battersea Bombers career panned out had he signed with Fwankie Warren in 2001 instead of Don King?

Warren would not have sent over his colourful British, Commonwealth and European champ to the states to box a DK fighter on a DK bill as Eastman actually did v Joppy.

So, he'd be boxing Armand Krajnc in London for the vacant WBO strap, a fight im sure even Eastmans most adamant detractors (the entire British boxrec forum bar Overhand) would concede he'd win easily.

Which of course would kick off a long string of WBO defences in and around the UK against FWs carefully vetted opponents (washed up, weight drained, coming off a loss, US clubfighters, brain damaged ex-names et al). Queue Julio Cesar Green, Haccine Cherifi and the Usual Suspects.

Eastman, under FW & his easy opponents, could easily of put together a long reign under these circumstances, instead of challenging the best in their backyard which is what he really did.

Since the most of you regard FWs fighters as real world champions for holding WBO belts and never fighting/getting knocked out by the legitimate world champ, shouldn't Eastman be given more respect for challenging the best for genuine world titles?

Which is the more admirable: challenging and losing a genuine world title fight, or amassing a string of defences over carefully chosen opponents in the very loosely regulated WBO or WBU rankings....?

"I dont want to be a WBO champion, that's too easy. I want to be like Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan and Julian Jackson and win a real world title". Joe Calzaghe, 1995.

Surely when writing such inaccurate drivel you should change your name to 'underhand right' (as in wanker). First of all Eastman signed with Don King of his own accord. He was offered Harry Simon and Joe Calzaghe but, being advised by a soppy bird, chose to do otherwise. As for getting knocked out by a legitimate world champion - That's an accolate isn't it?

Gerald McClellan was a WBO Champion or are you forgetting that? Julian Jackson couldn't fight in the UK due to his dodgy eyes and was beaten by McClellan for the WBO title anyway!

allegedly has never put any fighter in the ring who has Brain damage and such a fighter would not be allowed in the ring anyway, anywhere in the civilised world. Another inaccuracy bordering on libel. Julio Cesar Green? When did Warren promote him? Didn't Cherifi win European and a WBC title after fighting Robin Reid in the UK for the WBC, not WBO title? He fought Harry Simon in Puerto Rico for the WBO title before fighting Trinidad shortly afterwards.

Howard Eastman lost to Joppy and Bernard Hopkins so he did fight the best and you must remeber, colouful as he was he meant jck-shit in world terms and didn't draw flys let alone crowds or TV in the UK. Maybe Warren would have done a better job with him but ultimately he would have fought Calzaghe and got knocked out had he gone that route.

As for Joe Calzaghes 13 year old quote - Has he not won WBC/WBA/IBF and the Ring Magazine belts since then - Whilst still with Warren? Warren has staged more WBC/WBA?IBF/WBO fights than any other UK promoter so why the critiscism?

You need to look at the WBO's list of Champions over the years and you may change your blinkered and narrow mind. De La Hoya, Hamed, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Haye, Klitschko, Winky Wright, Barrera, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Hearns, Leonard, McClellan to name but a few. Not a bad list of bums eh?

[jomothepure]

You need to look at the WBO's list of Champions over the years and you may change your blinkered mind. De La Hoya, Hamed, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Haye, Klitschko, Winky Wright, Barrera, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Hearns, Leonard, McClellan etc etc. Not a bad list of bums eh?

Change champions to challengers and does the sentiment of your argument hold?

[MBP]

If I were a pro boxer i'd probably use the WBO belt to get my foot on the ladder but I certainly would't call my self a world champion until i'd unified it with at least 2 other belts.

If you was a Pro boxer and had a WBO belt You'd be over the Moon and be telling every one you was a world Champion.
THATS A FACT

[stujones]

Well, I would consider the WBO as authentic as the WBA when there is a Super Champion - as there was when Eastman fought Joppy.

[Autobarn]

Here's one for ya: How would The Battersea Bombers career panned out had he signed with Fwankie Warren in 2001 instead of Don King?

Warren would not have sent over his colourful British, Commonwealth and European champ to the states to box a DK fighter on a DK bill as Eastman actually did v Joppy.

So, he'd be boxing Armand Krajnc in London for the vacant WBO strap, a fight im sure even Eastmans most adamant detractors (the entire British boxrec forum bar Overhand) would concede he'd win easily.

Which of course would kick off a long string of WBO defences in and around the UK against FWs carefully vetted opponents (washed up, weight drained, coming off a loss, US clubfighters, brain damaged ex-names et al). Queue Julio Cesar Green, Haccine Cherifi and the Usual Suspects.

Eastman, under FW & his easy opponents, could easily of put together a long reign under these circumstances, instead of challenging the best in their backyard which is what he really did.

Since the most of you regard FWs fighters as real world champions for holding WBO belts and never fighting/getting knocked out by the legitimate world champ, shouldn't Eastman be given more respect for challenging the best for genuine world titles?

Which is the more admirable: challenging and losing a genuine world title fight, or amassing a string of defences over carefully chosen opponents in the very loosely regulated WBO or WBU rankings....?

"I dont want to be a WBO champion, that's too easy. I want to be like Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan and Julian Jackson and win a real world title". Joe Calzaghe, 1995.

You need to look at the WBO's list of Champions over the years and you may change your blinkered and narrow mind. De La Hoya, Hamed, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Haye, Klitschko, Winky Wright, Barrera, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Hearns, Leonard, McClellan to name but a few. Not a bad list of bums eh?

Leonard didn't win a WBO title. He drew vs Hearns for the super middle version

For WBO rosters how about Herbie Hide, Zsolt Erdei, Otis Grant, Sergey Liakhovic, Tommy Morrison, .

Now, there is debate whether the WBO is or isn't a poor man's world title. Yes, big names have held it, and so have names who never should've held "world" crowns. It took Calzaghe about 10 years to get acknowledged as a proper champion since winning his 1st belt. As to a list of bums, look at 1/2 of Calzaghe's challengers. What goes on between promoter & sanctioning body? How does Lockett get ranked, how did Macca get ranked? How nice do you have to be to the WBO to get a fighter ranked? Is it just that the WBO needed a nice home when they were fledgling in the early 90s and are still grateful? Fighters should get ranked on achievement, yet there are guys who get flashy sanctioning body rankings.

I notice the IBF are less Brit friendly. Didn't they have some failed attempt to rival the BBBofC and after the 1st batch of UK IBF champs like McCrory, Duke, Marsh it took a long time for Brits to fight for them again. Even when Hatton was fighting an elim for Stewart, the IBF came over unannounced and upset Hatton telling him he couldn't put on loadsa weight post weigh in.

[dondada]

If I were a pro boxer i'd probably use the WBO belt to get my foot on the ladder but I certainly would't call my self a world champion until i'd unified it with at least 2 other belts.

If you was a Pro boxer and had a WBO belt You'd be over the Moon and be telling every one you was a world Champion.
THATS A FACT

I can probably sort you a WBU one for a few quid. If fact, they could all be yours for not very much. You could be a 17-weight world champion.

Go on son

[boxingchat]

Here's one for ya: How would The Battersea Bombers career panned out had he signed with Fwankie Warren in 2001 instead of Don King?

Warren would not have sent over his colourful British, Commonwealth and European champ to the states to box a DK fighter on a DK bill as Eastman actually did v Joppy.

So, he'd be boxing Armand Krajnc in London for the vacant WBO strap, a fight im sure even Eastmans most adamant detractors (the entire British boxrec forum bar Overhand) would concede he'd win easily.

Which of course would kick off a long string of WBO defences in and around the UK against FWs carefully vetted opponents (washed up, weight drained, coming off a loss, US clubfighters, brain damaged ex-names et al). Queue Julio Cesar Green, Haccine Cherifi and the Usual Suspects.

Eastman, under FW & his easy opponents, could easily of put together a long reign under these circumstances, instead of challenging the best in their backyard which is what he really did.

Since the most of you regard FWs fighters as real world champions for holding WBO belts and never fighting/getting knocked out by the legitimate world champ, shouldn't Eastman be given more respect for challenging the best for genuine world titles?

Which is the more admirable: challenging and losing a genuine world title fight, or amassing a string of defences over carefully chosen opponents in the very loosely regulated WBO or WBU rankings....?

"I dont want to be a WBO champion, that's too easy. I want to be like Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan and Julian Jackson and win a real world title". Joe Calzaghe, 1995.

You need to look at the WBO's list of Champions over the years and you may change your blinkered and narrow mind. De La Hoya, Hamed, Calzaghe, Hopkins, Haye, Klitschko, Winky Wright, Barrera, Benn, Eubank, Collins, Hearns, Leonard, McClellan to name but a few. Not a bad list of bums eh?

Leonard didn't win a WBO title. He drew vs Hearns for the super middle version

For WBO rosters how about Herbie Hide, Zsolt Erdei, Otis Grant, Sergey Liakhovic, Tommy Morrison, .

Now, there is debate whether the WBO is or isn't a poor man's world title. Yes, big names have held it, and so have names who never should've held "world" crowns. It took Calzaghe about 10 years to get acknowledged as a proper champion since winning his 1st belt. As to a list of bums, look at 1/2 of Calzaghe's challengers. What goes on between promoter & sanctioning body? How does Lockett get ranked, how did Macca get ranked? How nice do you have to be to the WBO to get a fighter ranked? Is it just that the WBO needed a nice home when they were fledgling in the early 90s and are still grateful? Fighters should get ranked on achievement, yet there are guys who get flashy sanctioning body rankings.

I notice the IBF are less Brit friendly. Didn't they have some failed attempt to rival the BBBofC and after the 1st batch of UK IBF champs like McCrory, Duke, Marsh it took a long time for Brits to fight for them again. Even when Hatton was fighting an elim for Stewart, the IBF came over unannounced and upset Hatton telling him he couldn't put on loadsa weight post weigh in.

The IBF did not pull a stroke on Hatton. His trainer didn't bother to read the rules and a rule that had been in there some time, that everyone was aware of was told to Billy Graham early on but he just wouldn't accept it.

[Autobarn]

cool, no conspiracy there then

[MBP]

If I were a pro boxer i'd probably use the WBO belt to get my foot on the ladder but I certainly would't call my self a world champion until i'd unified it with at least 2 other belts.

If you was a Pro boxer and had a WBO belt You'd be over the Moon and be telling every one you was a world Champion.
THATS A FACT

I can probably sort you a WBU one for a few quid. If fact, they could all be yours for not very much. You could be a 17-weight world champion.

Go on son

Lovely mate

Na but i would prefer to be a WBU or a WBO Champ then not to be a Champ at all..

[banjo]

If you was a Pro boxer and had a WBO belt You'd be over the Moon and be telling every one you was a world Champion.
THATS A FACT

I can probably sort you a WBU one for a few quid. If fact, they could all be yours for not very much. You could be a 17-weight world champion.

Go on son

Lovely mate

Na but i would prefer to be a WBU or a WBO Champ then not to be a Champ at all..

Comments like that are ridiculous

No wonder boxing is in such a mess

[m1kee50]

two words tell you all you need to know about the WBO - Bobby Gunn

[MBP]

Comments like that are ridiculous

No wonder boxing is in such a mess

My comment was fair, You'd know about it if you boxed as a Pro

[Greg Nicholas]

"I dont want to be a WBO champion, that's too easy. I want to be like Mike McCallum, Gerald McClellan and Julian Jackson and win a real world title". Joe Calzaghe, 1995.

Is that a real quote..? Lol.. took him 13 yrs.. lol..

[Poncey]

IMO the most crooked of the titles is the WBC, although it probably carries the most respect, so I consider the WBO a worthy title based upon that and the whole WBA Super Champ and WBC Champion Emeritus crap.

[banjo]

We might as well say that ALL alphabet titles are crooked there is no honour in winning these belts anymore it is just about money.

IMO Witters WBC title is no more credible than Hattons IBO belt. I'd say Juan Lazcano is a classier opponent than Arturo Morua.

[Poncey]

I think the IBO belts are actually gaining respect nowadays, if you look at previous and current belt holders it ain't bad.

[STP]

Most of the WBO's top 10's are always basically the same names in the WBC, WBA and IBF top 10's. But they do sometimes have a baffling name or two in the top 10 and then sanction that fight to keep the strap on a particular boxer who is bringing in money with defences and tickets or whatever.

Interestingly, two days after Nigel Benn beat DeWitt, Hearn and Eubank referred to his WBO crown as a 'cardboard crown' and boasted they had Julian Jackson (vacant WBC) and Mike McCallum (WBA) lined up. Eubank and Calzaghe are really quite similar!