So what all these Sheep gags then, Loftgroov - not the English form of Racism against the Welsh.
Just look at how many TV shows have featured a Welshman as the traditional stereotypical idiot. Did you see Little Britain, Coupling, Eastenders (Huw was just before Barry).
Us Welsh can laugh at ourselves, whereas the English tend to call a stereophonics song, which states that we'll be chuffed if we can beat England at Rugby, racists.
Amir Khan
Stujones - But your comments only serve to highlight Welsh ignorance.
I am a HUGE rugby union fan, and obviously support England.
I'm from a low income family, got grants to go to uni, had to get shite loads of loans and did it off my own back. (apologies for doing the working class hero bit!
)
But... doesn't that show you that your views are drivle?
I'm not from anything like a middle class background, so why do all the Welsh assume all the English live in palaces and say "Jolly Ho Roger, damn fine game of Polo today what!" when we're as working class as you are? (many of us)
The only differecne is that we can play rugby, and you can't!
I am a HUGE rugby union fan, and obviously support England.
I'm from a low income family, got grants to go to uni, had to get shite loads of loans and did it off my own back. (apologies for doing the working class hero bit!
)But... doesn't that show you that your views are drivle?
I'm not from anything like a middle class background, so why do all the Welsh assume all the English live in palaces and say "Jolly Ho Roger, damn fine game of Polo today what!" when we're as working class as you are? (many of us)
The only differecne is that we can play rugby, and you can't!
It states Wales doesn't care if it loses every game, as long as they beat the English.stujones wrote:So what all these Sheep gags then, Loftgroov - not the English form of Racism against the Welsh.
Just look at how many TV shows have featured a Welshman as the traditional stereotypical idiot. Did you see Little Britain, Coupling, Eastenders (Huw was just before Barry).
Us Welsh can laugh at ourselves, whereas the English tend to call a stereophonics song, which states that we'll be chuffed if we can beat England at Rugby, racists.
Clearly England has been singled out and targeted with resentment...?
Barry wasn't supposed to be Welsh. I dare say there are people with the name Evans that aren't Welsh mate...
Ahhhh yes, but what a NATIONAL SCANDEL is proved to be eh....Chambers wrote:Anne RobinsonLoftgroov wrote: Where is an "English style Max Boyce" ripping it into the Welsh then?
An English person not being nice about Welsh people! Made the front page of every tabloid eh!
I don't think its the same when Max Boyce, Stereophonics, Spike Milligan, Any welsh rugby player, Twin Town, Catatonia do the same though eh...
Read this;
http://www.waleswatch.welshnet.co.uk/media/owenj.htm
The silly mare leave Wales and comes to ..guess where....ENGLAND...to take advantage of the better prospects and then whines about racisim.
F*CK OFF back to Wales then???????
http://www.waleswatch.welshnet.co.uk/media/owenj.htm
The silly mare leave Wales and comes to ..guess where....ENGLAND...to take advantage of the better prospects and then whines about racisim.
F*CK OFF back to Wales then???????
Ummm, when did I say we hated all of you English - that was my whole point. We dislike the England Rugby Team. Most of whom have got backgrounds like the one you describe. Now for those 80 minutes as far a I am concerned you have aleigned yourselfs with these fellows, and when the final whistle occurs - you don't have rub it in our faces if you are victorious - going back to the Merthyr Riots, Rebbeca Riots of old.Loftgroov wrote:Stujones - But your comments only serve to highlight Welsh ignorance.
I am a HUGE rugby union fan, and obviously support England.
I'm from a low income family, got grants to go to uni, had to get shite loads of loans and did it off my own back. (apologies for doing the working class hero bit!
But... doesn't that show you that your views are drivle?
I'm not from anything like a middle class background, so why do all the Welsh assume all the English live in palaces and say "Jolly Ho Roger, damn fine game of Polo today what!" when we're as working class as you are? (many of us)
The only differecne is that we can play rugby, and you can't!
Now, when it comes to football its a different matter, I feel equally as passionately about Football as I do Rugby, but if (when) we lose to you I'd of course feel gutted, but only as gutted I would if Wales lost to Italy - nothing more so. In Wales you associated Rugby as the working mans sport, and Football as the posh kids sport - with England I associate it differently.
Last edited by stujones on 12 Feb 2004, 09:20, edited 1 time in total.
Misunderstood me there - I said Huw was the joker, the village idiot, BEFORE Barry - never said Barry was Welsh.Loftgroov wrote:It states Wales doesn't care if it loses every game, as long as they beat the English.stujones wrote:So what all these Sheep gags then, Loftgroov - not the English form of Racism against the Welsh.
Just look at how many TV shows have featured a Welshman as the traditional stereotypical idiot. Did you see Little Britain, Coupling, Eastenders (Huw was just before Barry).
Us Welsh can laugh at ourselves, whereas the English tend to call a stereophonics song, which states that we'll be chuffed if we can beat England at Rugby, racists.
Clearly England has been singled out and targeted with resentment...?
Barry wasn't supposed to be Welsh. I dare say there are people with the name Evans that aren't Welsh mate...
If you can remember Huw lived with a bloke Lennie.
I believe its a slight difference between Anne Robinson slagging off the whole country as Stereophonics slagging off 15 people.
Spike Milligan was Irish.
Catatonia have never slagged off England, not even in their Welsh songs - they thanked the lord their Welsh, but thats about it.
As for Twin Town, don't you think the whole exercise of the film was that the two losers were Welsh.
-
jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45231
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
You may or may not be interested to know that there has always been antipathy between English and Welsh.
As far back as the ancient Britons, the welsh were not on good terms with the various english tribes.
In fact I remember reading that the very name of the land Wales means 'forgeigners.'
The Welsh were the tribes who were driven out of the other lands and were driven towards what is now Modern day wales after losing significant battles with the Briton tribes.
I would say however, that the Welsh seem to have an unneccesary chip on their shoulders when it comes to English people. I'm English, but of Irish descent, in fact all my family are paddies, and the truth is, there is no such thing as an Englishman anyway, we're all mongrels.
Most english people don't even think about the Welsh, there is very little antipathy towards welsh people in England, and what Antipathy there is is as a result of the common knowledge that the Welsh seem to dislike us, rather than any underlying resentment toward wales or the welsh.
As far back as the ancient Britons, the welsh were not on good terms with the various english tribes.
In fact I remember reading that the very name of the land Wales means 'forgeigners.'
The Welsh were the tribes who were driven out of the other lands and were driven towards what is now Modern day wales after losing significant battles with the Briton tribes.
I would say however, that the Welsh seem to have an unneccesary chip on their shoulders when it comes to English people. I'm English, but of Irish descent, in fact all my family are paddies, and the truth is, there is no such thing as an Englishman anyway, we're all mongrels.
Most english people don't even think about the Welsh, there is very little antipathy towards welsh people in England, and what Antipathy there is is as a result of the common knowledge that the Welsh seem to dislike us, rather than any underlying resentment toward wales or the welsh.
I think the thread, while excellent (although not boxing related) is a little bit bias towards the English vs Welsh rivalries. In 1999 I was in my first year in University and all the Irish and Scots were chuffed to bits when we beat you in the 6 nations. The Irish were saying, "yes those Irish fellows who can swim did in the English" etc. The arguement being put accross is that the Welsh alone are bitter, when its clearly not just us who want to see the English lose, more than their team win.
-
mickeybeard
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 488
- Joined: 31 Jan 2004, 09:05
I have a bit of Welsh blood in me (as well as Cornish and Irish) but I consider myself English. I used to have family in Haverford, and have spent quite a bit of time there. The big differences as far as I can see them:
The English will certainly be passionate about beating the Welsh at sports. There's a small percentage of tossers that hate the Welsh (and probably everyone else). The Welsh have a distressingly large percentage of otherwise decent people who hate all the English, all the time. Now, I'll be the first to admit that we English can be arrogant, overbearing, condescending and ignorant, but even the maost hardcore English-hater I've met will admit that our real 'atrocities' petered out well over 50 years ago. Now we're just a bit of a pain in the arse, but it's like some people have been raised to hate the English, and they really need to take a deep breath and get over it.
That said, during the time I've spent in Wales, Scotland and even Cornwall, it seems that a lot of people hate the idea of the English. I was in a boozer in Coatbridge a few months back, and heard an old boys screaming at his mate "fornicate the fuckin' English, fornicate all of 'em". I responded with "ta very much", and the guy was pretty much apologetic. Me and the missus spent the next couple of hours chatting to the two of them, and by the end he informed me that, while he still hated 'the English', I was 'alright'. Luck me!
The English will certainly be passionate about beating the Welsh at sports. There's a small percentage of tossers that hate the Welsh (and probably everyone else). The Welsh have a distressingly large percentage of otherwise decent people who hate all the English, all the time. Now, I'll be the first to admit that we English can be arrogant, overbearing, condescending and ignorant, but even the maost hardcore English-hater I've met will admit that our real 'atrocities' petered out well over 50 years ago. Now we're just a bit of a pain in the arse, but it's like some people have been raised to hate the English, and they really need to take a deep breath and get over it.
That said, during the time I've spent in Wales, Scotland and even Cornwall, it seems that a lot of people hate the idea of the English. I was in a boozer in Coatbridge a few months back, and heard an old boys screaming at his mate "fornicate the fuckin' English, fornicate all of 'em". I responded with "ta very much", and the guy was pretty much apologetic. Me and the missus spent the next couple of hours chatting to the two of them, and by the end he informed me that, while he still hated 'the English', I was 'alright'. Luck me!
Two very true and distinct points there;
(1) The Welsh seem to be brought up to hate the English. Kids are taught "England & the English are not to be liked", and carry this through to adulthood...and their kids...and so on.
(2) The English don't walk around spending half their time thinking about Wales & the Welsh....and how much they may or may not dislike them
(no chip on their shoulder).
(1) The Welsh seem to be brought up to hate the English. Kids are taught "England & the English are not to be liked", and carry this through to adulthood...and their kids...and so on.
(2) The English don't walk around spending half their time thinking about Wales & the Welsh....and how much they may or may not dislike them
(no chip on their shoulder).
Being Welsh, the answer to the first point is wrong - a bit of a generalisation there.Loftgroov wrote:Two very true and distinct points there;
(1) The Welsh seem to be brought up to hate the English. Kids are taught "England & the English are not to be liked", and carry this through to adulthood...and their kids...and so on.
(2) The English don't walk around spending half their time thinking about Wales & the Welsh....and how much they may or may not dislike them
(no chip on their shoulder).
2) For someone who doesn't carry a chip on his shoulder, who thought of alot of example of the Welsh being racist - seems like you think about it alot.
I'm English and proud to be so. A healthy rivalry in sport is good but bad news when the bitterness overflows into 'real' life.
A little salutary tale - I was abroad on a night out with one of my best mates who is a Welsh lad, from Hirwaun, near Aberdare, if anyone's interested. I'm a big football fan and had an England top on. This big Welsh lad who I didn't know from Adam (he'd had a few beers too) proceeded to call me all the names under the sun, simply for being English.
My Welsh pal steps in and gave him back as good as he got. He even tried speaking Welsh to him and the lad couldn't understand it!
I suppose the tale is that there are arseholes everywhere of all nationalities - English too.
An aside - I'm from a very working class background and have an innate hatred of upper-class English elitism. If a load of Welsh miners had managed to storm 10 Downing Street in 1985 I would have applauded their efforts.
Rugby is a great game but difficult to get into when you are from my background, I would argue. We didn't even play it at school, just football and cricket. When I went to university, I discovered that (I'm talking English lads here) rugby players, when they get together, are the biggest arseholes in the whole universe. My experience showed that, almost to a man they were - or pretended to be - rich, pompous, arrogant and vulgar. Most annoying, they used to pull the birds - but mainly from their own social background.
A little salutary tale - I was abroad on a night out with one of my best mates who is a Welsh lad, from Hirwaun, near Aberdare, if anyone's interested. I'm a big football fan and had an England top on. This big Welsh lad who I didn't know from Adam (he'd had a few beers too) proceeded to call me all the names under the sun, simply for being English.
My Welsh pal steps in and gave him back as good as he got. He even tried speaking Welsh to him and the lad couldn't understand it!
I suppose the tale is that there are arseholes everywhere of all nationalities - English too.
An aside - I'm from a very working class background and have an innate hatred of upper-class English elitism. If a load of Welsh miners had managed to storm 10 Downing Street in 1985 I would have applauded their efforts.
Rugby is a great game but difficult to get into when you are from my background, I would argue. We didn't even play it at school, just football and cricket. When I went to university, I discovered that (I'm talking English lads here) rugby players, when they get together, are the biggest arseholes in the whole universe. My experience showed that, almost to a man they were - or pretended to be - rich, pompous, arrogant and vulgar. Most annoying, they used to pull the birds - but mainly from their own social background.
-
jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45231
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Ian,
I would recommend you read up on the Rebecca Riots and also the Welsh miners riots of the 19th Century. You mentioned how you applauded the miners strike in 1985 - quite right too. I'm sure you'd find it fascinating. Not quite sure, why us Welsh wanted to do it dressed as Women though - yes, that was true.
If it wasn't for the success of the riots and also the excellent writing of a times reporter (whose name escapes me) then I'm sure the structure of firstly the mining system and secondly the toll gates wouldn't have been altered. These riots benefit ALL people from a working background, regardless of nationality.
Secondly, I do agree with your views concerning Rugby players. Having played the game for a number of years, I expected to enjoy 3 years at the University - which was a Welsh one. After 2 weeks, I hated the big headness and cliqueness of the team, so I stopped playing - but continued to play for a club instead. I'm sorry to state, but the vast majority of the players (and certainly the ones that annoyed me) were English.
I would recommend you read up on the Rebecca Riots and also the Welsh miners riots of the 19th Century. You mentioned how you applauded the miners strike in 1985 - quite right too. I'm sure you'd find it fascinating. Not quite sure, why us Welsh wanted to do it dressed as Women though - yes, that was true.
If it wasn't for the success of the riots and also the excellent writing of a times reporter (whose name escapes me) then I'm sure the structure of firstly the mining system and secondly the toll gates wouldn't have been altered. These riots benefit ALL people from a working background, regardless of nationality.
Secondly, I do agree with your views concerning Rugby players. Having played the game for a number of years, I expected to enjoy 3 years at the University - which was a Welsh one. After 2 weeks, I hated the big headness and cliqueness of the team, so I stopped playing - but continued to play for a club instead. I'm sorry to state, but the vast majority of the players (and certainly the ones that annoyed me) were English.
You should read up on Edward Istujones wrote:Ian,
I would recommend you read up on the Rebecca Riots and also the Welsh miners riots of the 19th Century. You mentioned how you applauded the miners strike in 1985 - quite right too. I'm sure you'd find it fascinating. Not quite sure, why us Welsh wanted to do it dressed as Women though - yes, that was true.
If it wasn't for the success of the riots and also the excellent writing of a times reporter (whose name escapes me) then I'm sure the structure of firstly the mining system and secondly the toll gates wouldn't have been altered. These riots benefit ALL people from a working background, regardless of nationality.
Secondly, I do agree with your views concerning Rugby players. Having played the game for a number of years, I expected to enjoy 3 years at the University - which was a Welsh one. After 2 weeks, I hated the big headness and cliqueness of the team, so I stopped playing - but continued to play for a club instead. I'm sorry to state, but the vast majority of the players (and certainly the ones that annoyed me) were English.
Did he play Rugby?Loftgroov wrote:You should read up on Edward Istujones wrote:Ian,
I would recommend you read up on the Rebecca Riots and also the Welsh miners riots of the 19th Century. You mentioned how you applauded the miners strike in 1985 - quite right too. I'm sure you'd find it fascinating. Not quite sure, why us Welsh wanted to do it dressed as Women though - yes, that was true.
If it wasn't for the success of the riots and also the excellent writing of a times reporter (whose name escapes me) then I'm sure the structure of firstly the mining system and secondly the toll gates wouldn't have been altered. These riots benefit ALL people from a working background, regardless of nationality.
Secondly, I do agree with your views concerning Rugby players. Having played the game for a number of years, I expected to enjoy 3 years at the University - which was a Welsh one. After 2 weeks, I hated the big headness and cliqueness of the team, so I stopped playing - but continued to play for a club instead. I'm sorry to state, but the vast majority of the players (and certainly the ones that annoyed me) were English.
Well... only with welsh people as equipment....stujones wrote:Did he play Rugby?Loftgroov wrote:You should read up on Edward Istujones wrote:Ian,
I would recommend you read up on the Rebecca Riots and also the Welsh miners riots of the 19th Century. You mentioned how you applauded the miners strike in 1985 - quite right too. I'm sure you'd find it fascinating. Not quite sure, why us Welsh wanted to do it dressed as Women though - yes, that was true.
If it wasn't for the success of the riots and also the excellent writing of a times reporter (whose name escapes me) then I'm sure the structure of firstly the mining system and secondly the toll gates wouldn't have been altered. These riots benefit ALL people from a working background, regardless of nationality.
Secondly, I do agree with your views concerning Rugby players. Having played the game for a number of years, I expected to enjoy 3 years at the University - which was a Welsh one. After 2 weeks, I hated the big headness and cliqueness of the team, so I stopped playing - but continued to play for a club instead. I'm sorry to state, but the vast majority of the players (and certainly the ones that annoyed me) were English.
-
jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45231
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
My own limited experience with Rugby players at Essex University revealed them to a man to be arrogant, overbearing
There was an incident in a dancehall one evening, when in the midst of coversation with one of the rugby squad, I coughed and accidently spat rum and coke into his face.....
There was no trouble at first, I apologised and bought him a drink, and explained it was a genuine accident. He seemed fine with that, and toddled off drunk and happy.
10 minutes later he reappears with another member of the rugby team, who proceeds to berate me, and tells him to demand another another apology, informing me that I should get on my knees and beg his forgiveness.
I was quite drunk at the time, and feeling bold, so I told him I had no intention of getting on my knees, and furthermore that I would not be apologising again.
I was then berated further, and a more forceful demand was made, I went right up to his face and bellowed 'GO fornicate YOURSELF' obviously a reasonable request.
They both wandered off at that point, somewhat nonplussed that someone who was physically smaller than them hadn't meekly complied with their wishes, and was not intimidated by their pack mentality.
I was informed about 10 minutes later that trouble was brewing and I was advised that I was about to get battered shitless by the entire rugby squad, not having the sense to make an exit due to the dutch courage flowing through my veins, I stood firm, and waited for the inevitable battering.
Knockout will know who I am on about, simon somthing or other, the fat bastard who was president of the NUS and the captain of the rugby squad, and a professional pie eating champion, came over to me and explained
'Now you're a brave lad, and I'm not saying we're harder than you, but there's 10 of us here right now, and unless you leave we're going to kick the fornicate out of you, it's up to you mate...'
At first I was defiant and explained I had no intention of going anywhere or apologising further, but in time explained in those terms, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and 'did one.'
What a bunch of fornicating heroes though, I mean it takes a big set of balls to initiate a 10-1 fight against someone who would probably have lost in a fight in a 1 on 1 fight with most of them.
Rugby twats tend to be from rich middle class families, and go to schools where due to their physical prowess they are given special treatment, rather like American jocks, and generally going through life thinking that nobody has the right or balls to stand up to their towering physical presence and resounding snobbery.
[/img]
There was an incident in a dancehall one evening, when in the midst of coversation with one of the rugby squad, I coughed and accidently spat rum and coke into his face.....
There was no trouble at first, I apologised and bought him a drink, and explained it was a genuine accident. He seemed fine with that, and toddled off drunk and happy.
10 minutes later he reappears with another member of the rugby team, who proceeds to berate me, and tells him to demand another another apology, informing me that I should get on my knees and beg his forgiveness.
I was quite drunk at the time, and feeling bold, so I told him I had no intention of getting on my knees, and furthermore that I would not be apologising again.
I was then berated further, and a more forceful demand was made, I went right up to his face and bellowed 'GO fornicate YOURSELF' obviously a reasonable request.
They both wandered off at that point, somewhat nonplussed that someone who was physically smaller than them hadn't meekly complied with their wishes, and was not intimidated by their pack mentality.
I was informed about 10 minutes later that trouble was brewing and I was advised that I was about to get battered shitless by the entire rugby squad, not having the sense to make an exit due to the dutch courage flowing through my veins, I stood firm, and waited for the inevitable battering.
Knockout will know who I am on about, simon somthing or other, the fat bastard who was president of the NUS and the captain of the rugby squad, and a professional pie eating champion, came over to me and explained
'Now you're a brave lad, and I'm not saying we're harder than you, but there's 10 of us here right now, and unless you leave we're going to kick the fornicate out of you, it's up to you mate...'
At first I was defiant and explained I had no intention of going anywhere or apologising further, but in time explained in those terms, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and 'did one.'
What a bunch of fornicating heroes though, I mean it takes a big set of balls to initiate a 10-1 fight against someone who would probably have lost in a fight in a 1 on 1 fight with most of them.
Rugby twats tend to be from rich middle class families, and go to schools where due to their physical prowess they are given special treatment, rather like American jocks, and generally going through life thinking that nobody has the right or balls to stand up to their towering physical presence and resounding snobbery.
[/img]
Jesus, what a bunch or arseholes. Although my history with the UNI Rugby team isn't quite a shocking as that. After I told the captain my decision to devote more time to the club game, he too seemed happy about it. However, when I tried to make acquientances with people out in the Union. The team would gang up and tell the people that I was talking to (when I'm wasn't around) what twat I was etc - the back talking that they do is unbelievable.jamesmcdonnell wrote:My own limited experience with Rugby players at Essex University revealed them to a man to be arrogant, overbearing
There was an incident in a dancehall one evening, when in the midst of coversation with one of the rugby squad, I coughed and accidently spat rum and coke into his face.....
There was no trouble at first, I apologised and bought him a drink, and explained it was a genuine accident. He seemed fine with that, and toddled off drunk and happy.
10 minutes later he reappears with another member of the rugby team, who proceeds to berate me, and tells him to demand another another apology, informing me that I should get on my knees and beg his forgiveness.
I was quite drunk at the time, and feeling bold, so I told him I had no intention of getting on my knees, and furthermore that I would not be apologising again.
I was then berated further, and a more forceful demand was made, I went right up to his face and bellowed 'GO fornicate YOURSELF' obviously a reasonable request.
They both wandered off at that point, somewhat nonplussed that someone who was physically smaller than them hadn't meekly complied with their wishes, and was not intimidated by their pack mentality.
I was informed about 10 minutes later that trouble was brewing and I was advised that I was about to get battered shitless by the entire rugby squad, not having the sense to make an exit due to the dutch courage flowing through my veins, I stood firm, and waited for the inevitable battering.
Knockout will know who I am on about, simon somthing or other, the fat bastard who was president of the NUS and the captain of the rugby squad, and a professional pie eating champion, came over to me and explained
'Now you're a brave lad, and I'm not saying we're harder than you, but there's 10 of us here right now, and unless you leave we're going to kick the fornicate out of you, it's up to you mate...'
At first I was defiant and explained I had no intention of going anywhere or apologising further, but in time explained in those terms, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and 'did one.'
What a bunch of fornicating heroes though, I mean it takes a big set of balls to initiate a 10-1 fight against someone who would probably have lost in a fight in a 1 on 1 fight with most of them.
Rugby twats tend to be from rich middle class families, and go to schools where due to their physical prowess they are given special treatment, rather like American jocks, and generally going through life thinking that nobody has the right or balls to stand up to their towering physical presence and resounding snobbery.
[/img]