Ottke's legacy?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Feb 2004, 09:21

I've been hearing that Friday's result between Johnson and Woods has enhanced Ottke's legacy a great deal. I have heard that, contary to popular belief, Ottke thoroughly deserved the verdict when he and Johnson clashed a few years ago.

Has anybody seen this fight? Whilst Ottke is not the most popular fighter on this board, you have to respect him. I don't think Calzaghe would have had it all his way if they would have met a few years ago.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 07 Feb 2004, 12:15

I had Ottke winning 116-112. Usual Ottke fight interm of style.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 07 Feb 2004, 12:18

Freiheit wrote:I had Ottke winning 116-112. Usual Ottke fight interm of style.

I know its style's makes fights, but if Calzaghe beat Johnston by four rounds we'd be hailing that performance.

adamiw · Post by **adamiw** » 07 Feb 2004, 12:53

I think Johnson has improved over the years. I haven't seen any of his other fights, only the previous Woods one, but i can imagine that he's become a more polished fighter recently. Maybe i'm wrong, but i dont see Ottke dealing with Coffee now as easily as he did then.

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 07 Feb 2004, 15:29

Kudos to Ottke, he is one tough cookie, but Reid beat him up pretty bad and may just have taken Ottke if it hadn't been for the dodgy ref.

It's considered that Ottke is going to retire shortly, but I would like to see Calzaghe get in there quick and give him what for. Can't see that fight happening though.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 07 Feb 2004, 15:35

i heard ottke next fight wont be against a top 10 fighter

pvdh62 · Post by **pvdh62** » 09 Feb 2004, 00:26

Ottke's legacy...................

The biggest spoiler of all times?????????????

Boxing is easy when you know upfront that you are not going to lose.

You can use all your energy by running, hiding and fouling if nescesary.

And if the other guy does hit you, you just start complaining to the referee. Being part of the scam he will gladly warn the other guy for...........well, something. Or deduct a point.

And after 12 rounds of "non-boxing", you can shamelessly raise your arms for another unanimus decision. And still call yourself "champion".

Afterwards offcourse you shouldn't forget to mention on German national television that the other guy didn't want to fight, tried to win by foul's and that you fully deserved the victory.

The guy is a joke.

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 11 Feb 2004, 16:57

He'd wet himself at the prospect of fighting Calzaghe in Britain!

"You mean actually fight outside of Germany and by regular rules?! No thanks!"

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:36

The Ottke of the today may not look much and he is as good as finished but trust me he was once a very decent Boxer and did what he does now in the final third of the fight throughout. It was around the time he beat Mundine when he showed real signs of wear and started to look old and worn. As for Glen Johnson, didn't he once stop German prospect Thomas Ulrich?

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 11 Feb 2004, 19:40

I said in an earlier post, fair play to Ottke, he is a tough cookie, but it's just not right that sits pretty with those titles. The only good sign is that he is meant to be hanging up the gloves shortly - just how shortly is anybody's guess.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Feb 2004, 11:22

I hope you lot do not come down to heavily on me because I am going to use a taboo word in boxing...coward. IN THE ROBIN REID FIGHT, Sven Ottke was the nearest thing I've seen to a coward in a boxing ring.

I agree with the posts about him being 'tough' but not in all ways. Against poor Robin it was not just his typical spoiling that angered me but his constant crying and gamesmanship which has no place in the sport.

He reminded me of a spoiled, cossetted Premiership footballer who play acts, whinges, cheats and expects to be lionized for it! And the Germans apparently love him! Surely there is no way a British crowd would put up with it.

The referee was a buffoon but if Ottke had approached the contest in a fair manner, the ref would not have felt as pressurised. Ottke played his little games and scored yet another hollow victory in his home country.

Our sport, despite all its flaws, is in essence the purest competition known to man. And Sven Ottke's behaviour demeaned and disgraced it. Does he have no dignity? Sorry, I got a little emotional there!

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 12 Feb 2004, 11:27

Im with u Ian the guy is a clear cheat sometimes. Signalling to the ref about people grabbing him round the head or using the head illegally. The ref was a joke that night tho he punished Reid for punching Ottke absolute lunacy, if Reid doesnt get his rematch I want Calzaghe to have one last Super Mid fight because I do not want Ottke retiring undefeated, Rocky Marciano he is not.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Feb 2004, 11:43

I agree, there is nothing brave about knowing you will win a fight so long as you finish on your feet.

Ottke whinged every single time Reid made contact with him, now I know it's rich of a pen-pusher like me to call a professional fighter a coward, but just because I haven't got the bollocks to get in that ring, doesn't mean that Ottke isn't a coward. He cheated his way to victory

The man is a coward, and does not deserve to be a world champion, if you cannot win a fight without the aid of the ref, you don't deserve to be a fighter let alone world champ.

I honestly believe that Ottke was on his way to getting stopped if the ref had played fair, he couldn't get out of the way of Reid's shots, and he was getting hurt by body and head shots. Reid, left unchecked by the ref would have been able to open up. He would always have tired a little towards the end, because he was lacking fitness, but I think he would have stopped Ottke inside of 9 rounds.

Ottke only came back into the fight because Reid was warned by Brian Hughes not to get himself DQ'd as he would not have been paid had that happened, and he wouldn't have been able to appeal the decision. With hindsight however, he would have been better off getting DQ'd, because it looks like the appeal has come to nothing.

Having watched several of Ottke's fights on tape courtesy of Freiheit, I can say that at no point in time was Ottke the best in the division. He is a boring defensive fighter who even early in his career was extremely negative and fought with a pecking amateur style.

Defensively he was brilliant early in his career, but his offense even then was pretty non-existent save for a pecking jab, and he has always had a tendency to hold as soon as his opponent starts hitting him.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Feb 2004, 11:56

Yes, James, I remember you telling me that about Reid's purse! I too think he would have stopped him. We all know that Reid can be flat footed at times, especially late in a fight, and also know that you have to go and take the initiative to get a belt BUT if that purse story is true, it must have contributed to Reid's lack of effort in the later sessions.

The ref was warning Robin for hitting him. Unbelievable.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 12 Feb 2004, 12:38

To the people who see Ottke's fights on German TV- what sort of things does he say in his post fight interviews? What sort of questions do the german pundits pose to him? Do they ever even touch on the fact that Ottke may have lost, or is it always 'OK Sven, you won again impressively, how did you see it?'

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 12 Feb 2004, 12:40

No idea about this. I'm assuming most 'fans' in Germany, at least who attend his shows, like him as there was obviously a very positive vibe in the hall.

Maybe those who know their stuff simply stay away!

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:12

the mauro galvano of his generation :x a cheating points stealer in other words

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:16

the most pathetic and cowardly fighter of all time.

an insult to everyone who ever laced on a pair of gloves.

sven ottke why dont you quite simply fornicate off you fornicating pussy.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:23

No way he aint fornicating off before getting a good kicking, I wouldnt be able to stand it if he retired undefeated.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:27

jameswilson wrote:No way he aint fornicating off before getting a good kicking, I wouldnt be able to stand it if he retired undefeated.

yeah that would be a crime if that guy retired undefeated

but as we all know he's lost before

but the cheating judges over there r so biased they wouldn't know justice if it hit em in the centre of the forehead.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:35

Lol, emotions are running high here, i also gets the beating he deserves before he retires just so we can all gloat. I am still curious as to what the scoring would have been had Mundine not gone to sleep in there fight and lasted the distance, Mundine was clearly Boxing his head off despite having 2 points deducted for a headbutt.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 12 Feb 2004, 14:45

anthony mundine getting knocked out by sven ottke how embarassing

and people reckon he will beat calzaghe. 8)

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 12 Feb 2004, 15:09

james mcdonnell sums it up perfectly when he mentions all ottke has to do is stay on his feet to win. the fact that many different judges have given him verdicts that he hadn`t earned, and on frequent occassions is worrying for the sport. this is not a one off "we wuz robbed" this is a common occurance.
the money men win, boxing is the loser.
bieng fair to ottke, no ones knocked him out yet.

pvdh62 · Post by **pvdh62** » 12 Feb 2004, 15:29

Riddick Blowe wrote:To the people who see Ottke's fights on German TV- what sort of things does he say in his post fight interviews? What sort of questions do the german pundits pose to him? Do they ever even touch on the fact that Ottke may have lost, or is it always 'OK Sven, you won again impressively, how did you see it?'

German television treats Ottke like he is one of the best fighters in the entire history of boxing.

If a fight is bad, it is ALWAYS because the other guy was fouling. Holding, hitting after the break, low blows, rabbit punching, etc. It is, according to German television, ALWAYS the other guy that is using illegal tactics in order to not let "Svenni" shine the way a true champion should.

Offcourse Ottke always agrees with these statements/conclusions in post-vieuw intervieuws on tv.

I can actually not blame the guy for playing along. He makes a lot, A LOT of money off these scams. He is a hero for life in his own country, he is financially backed for the rest of his life.

What does bother me though is his bad sportmanship. As if the postvieuw vieuws aren't already bad enough for his opponent, he always has to add some bad "extra's" about the other guy in order to make himself look even better in the eyes of the Germen crowd.

That behaviour disgusts me most. Even more than his behavior in the ring.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 12 Feb 2004, 16:01

headhunter wrote:bieng fair to ottke, no ones knocked him out yet.

Reid never got the chance, because he was threatened with being docked points and even DQed whenever he landed a few shots. If anyone ever had the temerity and/or luck to KO Ottke with the first punch they threw (the only way to keep the ref from intervening, apparently), they'd be DQed for "punching before opponent was ready" or some such nonsense.

I used to give Ottke the benefit of the doubt - defensive fighters often are slagged merely because of their style. But the Reid fight showed just what a protected fraud he is. He may not have been a total fraud earlier in his career, but he sure is now.

To be fair, Britain also has its own over-protected SM candidate in Joe Calzaghe. While I believe that the current Calzaghe would beat Ottke in a fair fight (speaking purely hypothetically - no way will Ottke ever make a risky fight like that), he keeps blabbering about how there are no more challenges for him at 168 (at least 5 highly-ranked guys there besides Ottke he hasn't yet fought), about how Hopkins is "ducking" him (when it's more likely that Hopkins wants no part of allegedly's Faustian fight offers), and how he wants to take on the "top guys" at 175, all the while looking for a weak LHW paper titlist to materialize, a Silvio Branco style guy dumb enough to fight for peanuts in Wales. Meanwhile, the actually hungry SM contenders willing to fight anywhere - the Robin Reids and Danny Greens - get screwed at every turn by the guys with the influential promoters.

(Like Calzaghe, Reid also is promoted by FW, but he got screwed in Germany by the guy with the German promoter.)