The BIG Fight Hagler VS Hopkins

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 29 Mar 2008, 16:07

I Feel Fine wrote:X does not like to get hit? Thanks for that information.

Well, not in the sense that he dislikes contact, or that he has a weak chin-but in the sense of, he wasn't willing to let his offense go against, say RJJ. Yes, Jones is faster than Marvin....but that's not really my point. He was being too "scientific" while losing rounds. If Marvin was able to land a solid shot that would hurt him, I envision X being conservative for the remainder of the bout. Just a gut feeling of mine-he would NEVER allow himself to be in the position of getting hurt. Which is also why I agree with you that he would NEVER get KO'ed by Hagler, as if his life depended on it.

I see this as a dull fight.

X is a difficult guy for me to gauge, b/c he wasn't the overly cautious fighter we see now during his IBF heydays-but he also wasn't the so called "fox" who outsmarted people then either. He was able to meld these elements against the likes of Tito IMHO, but Tito is the kind of fighter that COULD be outsmarted. And his BEST showing that I've ever seen was against Glen Johnson.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 29 Mar 2008, 16:22

Nobudius... Well there are two Hopkins', I think we agree there. But I would emphasize two things; a younger Hopkins did get hit in some of his fights, and he didn't back down. He might not have gotten reckless or went wild against Jones trying to stop him, but he did take punches and still tried to get inside on Jones. The other thing I would say is that while Hopkins in all of his post-Joppy fights has been very cautious, he's never surrendered a fight for the sake of not wanting to get hit. He'll be cautious and will stay out of exchanges, but he's never decided to quit mentally and just run around and avoid punches, he's been cautious but he's still always trying to win.

Terry... well I was addressing those who had Hagler winning by TKO. I do agree Hagler as champion wasn't at his peak. But I don't see that Hagler stopping Hopkins either, for reasons already stated. As I said, I'm sure Hagler would win, I just don't think it would be a particularly easy fight.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 29 Mar 2008, 16:48

I think they are both great fighters, though Hagler is greater.

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 29 Mar 2008, 21:28

[quote="I Feel Fine"]Nobudius... Well there are two Hopkins', I think we agree there. But I would emphasize two things; a younger Hopkins did get hit in some of his fights, and he didn't back down. He might not have gotten reckless or went wild against Jones trying to stop him, but he did take punches and still tried to get inside on Jones. The other thing I would say is that while Hopkins in all of his post-Joppy fights has been very cautious, he's never surrendered a fight for the sake of not wanting to get hit. He'll be cautious and will stay out of exchanges, but he's never decided to quit mentally and just run around and avoid punches, he's been cautious but he's still always trying to win. quote]

I never tried to imply that X would "quit mentally & just run around" if Marvin hit him on the button, as they say. He definitely won't pull off a Camacho here.

Even in his "over-cautious", old man stage, he BELIEVES he beat Taylor. Twice.

I brought up the Jones bout b/c that is the only fighter that is on the level of Hagler-yes, they are not similar in styles, strengths, & weaknesses, but they certainly aren't Jackson or Lipsey either. Like Jones, Hagler will bring his own "puzzle" to the bout-it's just something I thought about in this particular match up.

In the roles of boxer/puncher, I think Hagler is better than X. For X to win, I think it would serve him better to "Antuofermo" it a bit.

Elton John · Post by **Elton John** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:17

Hagler should win unless he takes him lightly and goofs off. I dont know about you but Hopkins to me just looks very average' average skill, average jab, average everything. Maybe it's just his age but he just doesnt have the look of one of the greats. He couldnt even beat one handed, weight drained Roy Jones, presumably at his peak of 28 years for a title. I mean what good are you if you cant beat a man with a broken hand? I personally gave him 4 rounds.

So, no he would not beat the great Hagler even by a decision unless you count late 80s version, a hagler edited to mere mortal dimensions.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:27

I Feel Fine wrote:I wonder if some of you even know who Hopkins and Hagler are. Have you seen any of Hagler's defenses, or did you just look up his record on boxrec and figure "wow, he scored knock outs, I guess he was a great puncher."

Hagler couldn't stop Duran, he couldn't hurt Roldan who he stopped on facial damage, he needed 11 rounds to stop Hamsho the first time and he did it on an accumulated beating, he never hurt Leonard that badly, he needed 11 rounds to make Mugabi quit; but he's going to stop Hopkins. Get out of here. Hopkins is a natual Middleweight and has a great chin, and he's a better defensive fighter than all of those guys, maybe even Leonard.

I would pick Hagler to win a close decision, or maybe a trilogy, but the idea that Hagler is going to stop Hopkins is a definite sign of ignorance of who these guys were. Hagler was a very good puncher, not a great puncher, he stopped most of his opponents on an accumulated beating or on cuts/facial damage, and Hopkins wasn't some push over who would be easily beaten, let alone knocked out, by any Middleweight.

I agree with you 100%...Two of the most complete middleweights of all-time going at it. I do not see a KO by either side. But Hagler was the busier of the two. Hagler by decision in 10, 12 or 15 rounds.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:28

Hopkins fought Jones years before he peaked. I'm not making any excuses, & a broken hand is a broken hand. Hopkins, in truth, would never beat the peak Jones. However, don't be fooled by his age --- Hopkins was much better in his mid-thirties (his career-defining bout was his systematic massacre of Trinidad, which came at age thirty-six).

Hopkins was not at his peak when he met Jones.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:37

Elton... Hopkins wasn't at his peak for Jones. Hopkins became a much more skilled fighter in later years.

Anyway, nobudius, I just wanted to make those points. I wasn't sure, but you made it sound sort of like you thought that Hopkins would stop fighting if Hagler had him hurt, sort of like Camacho, as you say, which I don't think Hopkins would do. Anyway, I get what you're saying now, and I agree. The only thing I would add is that, while Hagler would be better than any of Hopkins' opponents, including Jones, I do think Hopkins might prove to be Hagler's best opponent. But, as I said earlier, I do think Hagler would win.

GN... yeah, I agree. I don't think a later Hopkins, like the Hopkins of the Johnson fight or the Hopkins of the Trinidad fight for example, would have beaten Jones either, if they had a rematch, but I do think it would have been a much closer fight, maybe even a SD. And I do think Hopkins gave Jones his toughest fight pre-Griffin.

nobudius · Post by **nobudius** » 30 Mar 2008, 00:58

To me, X's "cautious-ness" coincides with his PARANOID personality. I highly, highly, doubt he is afraid of anybody. But he is quite wack.

I also find his recent Giardello-ish type of acclaim as a "cutie" quite amusing. X can certainly play that role, but we should look at who they are against. It's one thing to fool the likes of Tiger & Fullmer, & another to fool Tito & Taylor.

In fantasy matchups such as this, I tend to favor the better jabber.

Hurricane · Post by **Hurricane** » 30 Mar 2008, 11:34

hopkins beat trinidad and trinidad was agresiv and a very hard puncher.. have hagler ever fought a guy like hopkins.. hopkins had a oki punch.. not as hard as hagler and not so buisy but hopkins had the size and strenght to stand with hagler and the defence and ring smart to confuse him.. i think hagler would win in af very tough fight on being more buisy but im not sure.. am i all of here guys ?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 30 Mar 2008, 11:37

I see Hagler prevailing via a decision in this one.

I can't see a knockout or knockdown (certainly not against Hagler), as both were tough but I think Marvin had the edge in class & this would be the difference in this hypothetical matchup.

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 03 Apr 2008, 00:05

Hopkins beats him 10 out of 10 times. Hopkins would have gotten into Hagler's little pea brain. That is how you beat Hagler. Not to mention Hopkins is awkward himself and handles goofy plodding southpaws with ease. Hopkins wins on cuts late..........

marvelousmarvin · Post by **marvelousmarvin** » 03 Apr 2008, 02:35

hagler would do to hopkins what he did to hearns

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 03 Apr 2008, 03:27

ringsider wrote:Hopkins beat him 10 out of 10 times. Hopkins would have gotten into Hagler's little pea brain. That is how you beat Hagler. Not to mention Hopkins is awkward himself and handles goofy plodding southpaws with ease. Hopkins wins on cuts late..........

marvelousmarvin wrote:hagler would do to hopkins what he did to hearns

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 03 Apr 2008, 05:01

A very close 15 round fight that marvin should win. Hokins would not make it an easy night and Bernard would make it close enough for everyone to be holding their breath when the decision was announced.

I can see Hagler struggling early on as he didn't like to be countered and forced to lead. It would be a stand off with Hopkin's guile stealing the close rounds early on.