Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams(Nov.14.1966)

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:01

This fight took place at the Houston Astrodome.
Most boxing historians consider this fight to have been Muhammad Ali at the apex of his fighting skills,
knocking down Cleveland Williams 4 times before the referee stopped the fight in the third round..
My question is,over the years the only footage I have seen of this high-water mark fight of Ali's,
is the color film footage.
which I believe was intended for the movie audiences overseas some time after the fight.
The fight itself was broadcast closed-circuit television,
November.14.1966,9 PM(Texas time)
to 125 locations across the United States,
11 locations in Canada,
and via Early Bird satellite to London
and 42 delayed tape versions to foreign countries.
Are there different tapes,film of this fight(as far as camera angles?)

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:22

[quote="Brutu"]This fight took place at the Houston Astrodome.
Most boxing historians consider this fight to have been Muhammad Ali at the apex of his fighting skills,
knocking down Cleveland Willaims 4 times before the referee stopped the fight in the third round..
My question is,over the years the only footage I have seen of this high-water mark fight of Ali's,
is the color film footage.
which I believe was intended for the movie audiences overseas some time after the fight.
The fight itself was broadcast closed-circuit television,
November.14.1966,9 PM(Texas time)
to 125 locations across the United States,
11 locations in Canada,
and via Early Bird satellite to London
and 42 delayed tape versions to foreign countries.
Are there different tapes,film of this fight(as far as camera angles?)[/quote

I have the original bw broadcast..... great performance...

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:42

How does(if it does)differ from the color footage of the fight thats
the one always shown on ESPN and elsewhere,different angle?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:55

Brutu wrote:How does(if it does)differ from the color footage of the fight thats
the one always shown on ESPN and elsewhere,different angle?

Are there any x-rays and other medical data, in color or black and white,
of Cleveland Williams' missing kidney, the missing ten feet of his small intestine, or his shriveled left leg at the time he 'fought' Ali?

At what different angles can Cleveland Williams shriveled left leg be viewed?

If there a medical photograph of some kind showing the exact spot where the bullet fragment damaged the nerve in Cleveland Williams' spine that caused his left leg to atrophy above the knee so that his upper leg for 8-9 inches above the knee was smaller than his lower leg ?

If there a medical photo showing the ten feet of his small intestine that Cleveland Williams lost as a result of being shot in the stomach at point blank range by a Texas policeman with a magnum gun a year andc a half before he fought Ali?

Is there a medical photo of his destroyed kidney?

Was it the left or the right kidney?

Do any medical pictures show what progress in healing the huge scar that rose up out of his trunks was making at the time Cleveland Williams 'fought' Ali?

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:03

I dont know either,I do know that both Joe Louis's doctor and Sonny Liston's doctor was Dr. Bennent.
He should have written a book about injuries to boxer's over the course of their careers.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:04

Also according to the Highway patrol report Cleveland Williams was intoxicated when he was pulled over resulting in the scuffle in 1964.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:06

Speaking of Clevelands Williams being shriviled.
When he fought Sonny Liston he was listed around 6 feet 6 inches tall,but when he fought Ali 8 years later he was reported to be only 6 feet 2 inches tall.

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:09

Brutu wrote:I dont know either,I do know that both Joe Louis's doctor and Sonny Liston's doctor was Dr. Bennent.
He should have written a book about injuries to boxer's over the course of their careers.

I want to see the X-rays of Sonny Liston's left shoulder that had been presented at the press conference after he(was saidto have quit on the stool because he ripped some muscle cartilage in his shoulder trying to land his left hook on Ali.
Anyone seen that?

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:15

granberry wrote:
Brutu wrote:How does(if it does)differ from the color footage of the fight thats
the one always shown on ESPN and elsewhere,different angle?
Are there any x-rays and other medical data, in color or black and white,
of Cleveland Williams' missing kidney, the missing ten feet of his small intestine, or his shriveled left leg at the time he 'fought' Ali?

At what different angles can Cleveland Williams shriveled left leg be viewed?

If there a medical photograph of some kind showing the exact spot where the bullet fragment damaged the nerve in Cleveland Williams' spine that caused his left leg to atrophy above the knee so that his upper leg for 8-9 inches above the knee was smaller than his lower leg ?

If there a medical photo showing the ten feet of his small intestine that Cleveland Williams lost as a result of being shot in the stomach at point blank range by a Texas policeman with a magnum gun a year andc a half before he fought Ali?

Is there a medical photo of his destroyed kidney?

Was it the left or the right kidney?

Do any medical pictures show what progress in healing the huge scar that rose up out of his trunks was making at the time Cleveland Williams 'fought' Ali?

Also anyone know what that protrubence was on Joe Louis's left shoulder?
Looked like a hernia or something.
I first noticed it during the televised Ezzard Charles vrs Joe Louis fight,it looked to get bigger of the years,check out the footage from 1956 when he was wresting,the protrubence ,it looks three times bigger

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 29 Mar 2008, 19:55

granberry wrote:
Brutu wrote:How does(if it does)differ from the color footage of the fight thats
the one always shown on ESPN and elsewhere,different angle?
Are there any x-rays and other medical data, in color or black and white,
of Cleveland Williams' missing kidney, the missing ten feet of his small intestine, or his shriveled left leg at the time he 'fought' Ali?

At what different angles can Cleveland Williams shriveled left leg be viewed?

If there a medical photograph of some kind showing the exact spot where the bullet fragment damaged the nerve in Cleveland Williams' spine that caused his left leg to atrophy above the knee so that his upper leg for 8-9 inches above the knee was smaller than his lower leg ?

If there a medical photo showing the ten feet of his small intestine that Cleveland Williams lost as a result of being shot in the stomach at point blank range by a Texas policeman with a magnum gun a year andc a half before he fought Ali?

Is there a medical photo of his destroyed kidney?

Was it the left or the right kidney?

Do any medical pictures show what progress in healing the huge scar that rose up out of his trunks was making at the time Cleveland Williams 'fought' Ali?

Same old song.....predictable.....I almost posted it for you so you wouldn't have to bother.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:58

BoxBuzz wrote:
granberry wrote:
Brutu wrote:How does(if it does)differ from the color footage of the fight thats
the one always shown on ESPN and elsewhere,different angle?
Are there any x-rays and other medical data, in color or black and white,
of Cleveland Williams' missing kidney, the missing ten feet of his small intestine, or his shriveled left leg at the time he 'fought' Ali?

At what different angles can Cleveland Williams shriveled left leg be viewed?

If there a medical photograph of some kind showing the exact spot where the bullet fragment damaged the nerve in Cleveland Williams' spine that caused his left leg to atrophy above the knee so that his upper leg for 8-9 inches above the knee was smaller than his lower leg ?

If there a medical photo showing the ten feet of his small intestine that Cleveland Williams lost as a result of being shot in the stomach at point blank range by a Texas policeman with a magnum gun a year andc a half before he fought Ali?

Is there a medical photo of his destroyed kidney?

Was it the left or the right kidney?

Do any medical pictures show what progress in healing the huge scar that rose up out of his trunks was making at the time Cleveland Williams 'fought' Ali?

Same old song.....predictable.....I almost posted it for you so you wouldn't have to bother.

buzz can't take the truth.

Typical Ali salesman.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:34

What is amazing is that Williams was able to ever fight again...let alone train and live a 'normal' life.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:39

I must concede, it is a bit nauseating the way no one mentions Williams' condition. Why? Because, if it were not Ali, someone would pipe up every time & make mention of Williams' diminished state (not to mention, the broham was just plain old).

To be fair, Ali performed as good as you can ask. No one could have done better, but I do think Ali fans'd be wise to point to another bout when discussing their man's best effort. He was great against Terrell, for instance.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:49

I've seen a black and white version and a color version. And they seemed to have different angles. I don't know if there are other versions.

I don't think Ali was necessarily at his apex. I doubt he was any better than he was against Terrell or Folley. It was just the difference in the opponent. And Ali knew what kind of shape Williams was in, the reason why Ali fought so aggressively was because he wanted to get Williams out of there early to prevent him from taking a prolonged beating. But Williams showed a lot of heart, so that plan obviously failed; Williams took a big beating, rather than going down and staying down as most fighters in his shape would have. And I guess part of that was also that Ali wasn't that big a puncher. If Liston had hit that version of Williams, Williams wouldn't have gotten up from the first or second knockdown.

I think Williams' condition has been illustrated by people, I'm not aware that there has been any attempt to suppress what kind of shape he was in. Just as Ali doesn't get any credit for beating Archie Moore, its no secret that Moore was a fight away from retirement. The reason why the Williams fight is so praised is because of how good Ali looked against a weak opponent, like Mayweather against Gatti or Jones against Pazienza or Louis against... most of his unimpressive title challengers.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 30 Mar 2008, 02:38

How many title challengers did Joe Louis fight

who were missing one kidney, ten feet of their small intestine, had a shriveled leg from nerve damage from the bullet they were shot with at point blank range from a magnum gun a year and a half before he fought them?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

LOL

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 30 Mar 2008, 02:44

Im sure had the war not interupted his reign he would have found one :) as he no doubt would have been running low on challengers.

though who was in better-worse condition...at the time of there respective title challenges against Louis...Ali.

John Henry Lewis or Cleveland Williams

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 30 Mar 2008, 03:02

granberry wrote:How many title challengers did Joe Louis fight

who were missing one kidney, ten feet of their small intestine, had a shriveled leg from nerve damage from the bullet they were shot with at point blank range from a magnum gun a year and a half before he fought them?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

LOL

at least ali was never dropped bye tony golento

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 30 Mar 2008, 03:08

p4p1 wrote:
granberry wrote:How many title challengers did Joe Louis fight

who were missing one kidney, ten feet of their small intestine, had a shriveled leg from nerve damage from the bullet they were shot with at point blank range from a magnum gun a year and a half before he fought them?

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

LOL
at least ali was never dropped bye tony golento

At least Joe was never outboxed by Ron Lyle

Excuse me, I must hastily depart, as I hear the unmistakeable click of IFF's handgun

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 30 Mar 2008, 10:29

area of complete agreement for this group? None of us want anyone living with roaches.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 30 Mar 2008, 15:43

Isn't this crap getting a little tired people?

Every other thread turns into this.

A few are at fault but granberry really does instigate this crap over and over. It was annoying, then became slightly humorous, and now seems to infect and destroy almost every thread on BOTP.

I really wish the moderators would not be so amused. It's killing this forum.

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 30 Mar 2008, 15:49

Granberry is totally killing this forum!!

Whatever subject this idiot is turning the debate into rubbish.

Cannot someone ban this "Person"

Woller

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 30 Mar 2008, 16:02

Woller wrote:Granberry is totally killing this forum!!

Whatever subject this idiot is turning the debate into rubbish.

Cannot someone ban this "Person"

Woller

Ali fans don't like it when the most basic facts concerning the physical condition of Ali's opponent Cleveland Williams are mentioned.

When he fought Ali, Cleveland Williams was missing one kidney, ten feet of his small intestine

and had a shriveled left leg from nerve damage from the bullet he was shot with in the stomach at point blank range by a Texas policeman with a magnum gun a year and a half before he 'fought' Ali.

Woller and dempsey think such facts should be 'banned' from boxrec.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 30 Mar 2008, 16:14

granberry Williams previous fights to the Ali fight (post his recovery period) does not paint a picture of a completely washed up fighter.....or was their a fix of sorts going on?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:22

Ron Lyle might have knocked out a 33 year old Louis.

If I had to pick between fighting the Cleveland Williams who fought Ali, and fighting someone named Johnny Paycheck... hell, Williams could be missing an arm and I'd still go with Paycheck.

Woller · Post by **Woller** » 31 Mar 2008, 03:30

No Granberry

Don´t tell lies about me. I do not want facts of any kind banned, but I would love to se you go. You turn any topic into rubbish. This topic was a question of the Ali v Williams fight, was filmed from different camera angels.

Woller

Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams(Nov.14.1966)

Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams(Nov.14.1966)

Re: Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams(Nov.14.1966)