I sent this story in an e-mail to Frank in light of Rick's earlier story about a figthter who quit when winning. The same thing happened to a fighter I was working with in Oklahoma City. Frank suggested I post it.
I had a heavyweight named Tom Berry whose corner I always worked when he fought in Oklahoma City. Big guy. He was fighting a 12-rounder for the state heavyweight championship, and doing quite well. He seemed to have the fight in hand, and on his way at least to a decision win.
He came back to the corner after the sixth round and told me to cut off his gloves; he's quitting.
"Why? Are you hurt?," I said.
"No, I'm okay."
"You're not getting tired are you?"
"No, I'm not tired."
"Then what the heck's going on?"
"I just don't want to fight anymore. Cut them off. Tell the ref I'm done."
"But you're winning. . ."
"I know. I don't want to fight anymore."
All the time he's saying this, he's got a weird grin on his face, and he won't look me in the eye. His eyes were darting all over the place. So I told the ref we're done.
Back in the dressing room there wasn't much to say, but I finally asked him what happened out there. "Nothing. I just didn't want to fight anymore. You know, a guy can get hurt out there."
Really strange.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
Far as I'm concerned youre a writer man!...kikibalt wrote:Thanks diego
No, I'm not a writer at all, my mind don't work that way, I think of things and when I try to put'em on paper, my mind just goes blank.
I like to post things that're of interest to me, and maybe make the thread interesting to others that are posting here.
Puerto Nuevo has a special place in my heart, you see I had a friend, he was my best friend, he was John Martinez, I met John in 1968 at a meeting we had before the start of the 1968 Jr.G.G tournament, a new group of guys came to the meeting, guys that had ties to the AAU, and they were trying to take the Jr. G.G. from us, it didn't work for them.
Later I got to know John well and we became best friends, he started to work with me with Frankie and Tony we also opened a gym and got some more fighters, by 1992 I was more or less done with boxing, in 1993 my wife and I move to San Diego, in late 1993, John doctors told him that he had cancer and that he had 6 months to live, in January of 1994 we had John and his wife come spent the weekend with us, Saturday of that weekend we drove down to Puerto Nuevo, when we got there I tell John "Lets have a drink" he tells me "my doctors said not to drink" I say "John what else did they tell you?" he says "to kiss my ass goodby in 6 months" I say "so what're you worrying about, lets have a drink" we did, and after couple of drinks we hire some mariachis and we hit all the bars in town, the marachis went where we went.
John died in June of 1994.
Later I got to know John well and we became best friends, he started to work with me with Frankie and Tony we also opened a gym and got some more fighters, by 1992 I was more or less done with boxing, in 1993 my wife and I move to San Diego, in late 1993, John doctors told him that he had cancer and that he had 6 months to live, in January of 1994 we had John and his wife come spent the weekend with us, Saturday of that weekend we drove down to Puerto Nuevo, when we got there I tell John "Lets have a drink" he tells me "my doctors said not to drink" I say "John what else did they tell you?" he says "to kiss my ass goodby in 6 months" I say "so what're you worrying about, lets have a drink" we did, and after couple of drinks we hire some mariachis and we hit all the bars in town, the marachis went where we went.
John died in June of 1994.
Did he ever fight again?.....raylawpc wrote:I sent this story in an e-mail to Frank in light of Rick's earlier story about a figthter who quit when winning. The same thing happened to a fighter I was working with in Oklahoma City. Frank suggested I post it.
I had a heavyweight named Tom Berry whose corner I always worked when he fought in Oklahoma City. Big guy. He was fighting a 12-rounder for the state heavyweight championship, and doing quite well. He seemed to have the fight in hand, and on his way at least to a decision win.
He came back to the corner after the sixth round and told me to cut off his gloves; he's quitting.
"Why? Are you hurt?," I said.
"No, I'm okay."
"You're not getting tired are you?"
"No, I'm not tired."
"Then what the heck's going on?"
"I just don't want to fight anymore. Cut them off. Tell the ref I'm done."
"But you're winning. . ."
"I know. I don't want to fight anymore."
All the time he's saying this, he's got a weird grin on his face, and he won't look me in the eye. His eyes were darting all over the place. So I told the ref we're done.
Back in the dressing room there wasn't much to say, but I finally asked him what happened out there. "Nothing. I just didn't want to fight anymore. You know, a guy can get hurt out there."
Really strange.
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Nice post. Like Rick's, those things happen suddenly. Maybe they're in the back of your mind,but then bam it happens, and it's over. I asked Ronnie Wilson about his fight with Kid Heilman. He didn't say much. Now I know why. After that,Heilman didn't fight anymore.raylawpc wrote:I sent this story in an e-mail to Frank in light of Rick's earlier story about a figthter who quit when winning. The same thing happened to a fighter I was working with in Oklahoma City. Frank suggested I post it.
I had a heavyweight named Tom Berry whose corner I always worked when he fought in Oklahoma City. Big guy. He was fighting a 12-rounder for the state heavyweight championship, and doing quite well. He seemed to have the fight in hand, and on his way at least to a decision win.
He came back to the corner after the sixth round and told me to cut off his gloves; he's quitting.
"Why? Are you hurt?," I said.
"No, I'm okay."
"You're not getting tired are you?"
"No, I'm not tired."
"Then what the heck's going on?"
"I just don't want to fight anymore. Cut them off. Tell the ref I'm done."
"But you're winning. . ."
"I know. I don't want to fight anymore."
All the time he's saying this, he's got a weird grin on his face, and he won't look me in the eye. His eyes were darting all over the place. So I told the ref we're done.
Back in the dressing room there wasn't much to say, but I finally asked him what happened out there. "Nothing. I just didn't want to fight anymore. You know, a guy can get hurt out there."
Really strange.
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Frank,
Like I was writing the other day,TJ has really changed. I used to go to Puerto Nuevo once in a while.(My wife worked for Anthony's Seafood so we always had fish around). In the last few years Puerto Nuevo has raised their prices to the point it's not worth going down there. With the price of gas and the wait at the border(the line stretches to downtown even on weekdays)Puerto Nuevo is drying up. The merchants in TJ are taking a beating.
One time I wanted to take my wife to a resort area in Mexico. I bought one of these package deals:4 days and 3 nights in some fancy hotel in Mazatlan. Right away I don't have a good feeling brcause the place is full of tourists. The dining room in the hotel is overpriced,and besides the food looks like something you'd find at a place like Tio Leo's. Gringo Mexican food. I'm looking in this directory at different restaurants,and it's all the same as the hotel. Finally I wise up and ask the cab driver. I ask him where the locals go to eat seafood. He takes us down to some seedy area by the docks. The place is called"El Marinero". That was more like it. The waiter brought out a big"brasero" with grilled frog legs,turtle steaks,and shrimp. Side order of frijoles,tortillas,and cold Coronas, and me and the wife were satisfied. The bill was in line,and NO tourists.
We flag a cab and I ask the driver where I could here some "ass kicking" Sinoloan music. Tamboras playing real loud. (All they had in the hotel was that wimpy marimba music playing "Guantanamera". Mexican elevator music.) What do you think he tells me?
"Amigo,not much here anymore. They all go to Tijuana. Make more money."
Great,I just came from there.
Well,the rest of the vacation was pretty uneventfull. My wife liked the pool,but she was bored. After the second day,I went for a walk down by the harbor. There was a little public recreation center there. There was a boy's basketball tournament being played outside. For the next two afternoons I'd walk down there and watch them play. Next to the center,there was a guy selling shrimp cocktails in those big ice cream sundae glasses for 50 cents. I'd watch the boys play basketball till dark.
Like I was writing the other day,TJ has really changed. I used to go to Puerto Nuevo once in a while.(My wife worked for Anthony's Seafood so we always had fish around). In the last few years Puerto Nuevo has raised their prices to the point it's not worth going down there. With the price of gas and the wait at the border(the line stretches to downtown even on weekdays)Puerto Nuevo is drying up. The merchants in TJ are taking a beating.
One time I wanted to take my wife to a resort area in Mexico. I bought one of these package deals:4 days and 3 nights in some fancy hotel in Mazatlan. Right away I don't have a good feeling brcause the place is full of tourists. The dining room in the hotel is overpriced,and besides the food looks like something you'd find at a place like Tio Leo's. Gringo Mexican food. I'm looking in this directory at different restaurants,and it's all the same as the hotel. Finally I wise up and ask the cab driver. I ask him where the locals go to eat seafood. He takes us down to some seedy area by the docks. The place is called"El Marinero". That was more like it. The waiter brought out a big"brasero" with grilled frog legs,turtle steaks,and shrimp. Side order of frijoles,tortillas,and cold Coronas, and me and the wife were satisfied. The bill was in line,and NO tourists.
We flag a cab and I ask the driver where I could here some "ass kicking" Sinoloan music. Tamboras playing real loud. (All they had in the hotel was that wimpy marimba music playing "Guantanamera". Mexican elevator music.) What do you think he tells me?
"Amigo,not much here anymore. They all go to Tijuana. Make more money."
Great,I just came from there.
Well,the rest of the vacation was pretty uneventfull. My wife liked the pool,but she was bored. After the second day,I went for a walk down by the harbor. There was a little public recreation center there. There was a boy's basketball tournament being played outside. For the next two afternoons I'd walk down there and watch them play. Next to the center,there was a guy selling shrimp cocktails in those big ice cream sundae glasses for 50 cents. I'd watch the boys play basketball till dark.
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 30 Mar 2008, 18:29, edited 1 time in total.
Last time I was there, was when we went with John and his wife.dagosd2000 wrote:Frank,
Like I was writing the other day,TJ has really changed. I used to go to Puerto Nuevo once in a while.(My wife worked for Anthony's Seafood so we always had fish around). In the last few years Puerto Nuevo has raised their prices to the point it's not worth going down there. With the price of gas and the wait at the border(the line stretches to downtown even on weekdays)Puerto Nuevo is drying up. The merchants in TJ are taking a beating.
Los Lobos' songs: one time, one night
By Agustin Gurza, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
Louie Perez of Los Lobos doesn't like to use the word "muse" to describe the inspiration that comes to him as a songwriter. To his mind, the term fails to describe the supernatural force that's really at play in the creative process.
"It's a failure to admit that there's a power greater than ourselves -- and there is," says Perez. "Sometimes, I feel like I'm just a conduit."
Is he referring to God? Perez prefers to leave that open to interpretation, as he has done with the artful, evocative lyrics he has written over more than three decades for Los Lobos, the critically acclaimed band from East L.A.
For the first time since the group was launched in 1973, Perez and his longtime writing partner, David Hidalgo, will explore the songwriting process in a special duet performance Saturday at the Irvine Barclay Theatre. The acoustic set will feature songs from the Lobos repertoire as well as unreleased material and will be followed by a live discussion led by Tu Ciudad editor Oscar Garza.
The four original Lobos -- including Cesar Rosas, who also contributes some songs, and Conrad Lozano -- were all friends at East L.A.'s Garfield High School in the 1960s. The band's songwriting soul, however, has always been Perez and Hidalgo, guitarists who hit it off as teenagers in an art class and who have sustained a creative dialogue ever since.
Perez, admittedly nervous and high-strung, finds balance and counterpoint in Hidalgo, more laid back and unflappable. "I love this guy, he's so like a cool drink," Perez says. "I wouldn't be able to do what I do without him."
Perez says the pair had considered teaming for a songwriting showcase in the past, but the demands of business and family always intervened. The concept was revived after last year's "The Town and the City," the group's 12th studio album, for which Perez says the creative process seemed to take on a life of its own. "We just broke into some fourth dimension, and things started to reveal themselves," Perez recalls. "I started to get the weird feeling again that something was happening that I had no control of."
The experience prompted Perez to urge his co-writer to join him for the show: "Now's the time to do this."
Saturday's retrospective will mark the first public performance of songs the pair recorded as demos 20 years ago but never released. Perez says there are a couple songs "that I really, really love." He describes one favorite, "The Long Goodbye," as "a beautiful song" about "always saying goodbye to something throughout our lives."
This side project doesn't mean the pair is saying goodbye to Los Lobos, which Perez calls "the mother ship." He admits feeling nervous about going onstage without his lifelong backup because it will put him in a setting where "you can't hide behind a big loud band." For this show, he says, it'll be just two guitars and two stools.
"Thirty-five years of Los Lobos and we're challenging ourselves again," says Perez. "It keeps the blood circulating."
[email protected]
By Agustin Gurza, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
Louie Perez of Los Lobos doesn't like to use the word "muse" to describe the inspiration that comes to him as a songwriter. To his mind, the term fails to describe the supernatural force that's really at play in the creative process.
"It's a failure to admit that there's a power greater than ourselves -- and there is," says Perez. "Sometimes, I feel like I'm just a conduit."
Is he referring to God? Perez prefers to leave that open to interpretation, as he has done with the artful, evocative lyrics he has written over more than three decades for Los Lobos, the critically acclaimed band from East L.A.
For the first time since the group was launched in 1973, Perez and his longtime writing partner, David Hidalgo, will explore the songwriting process in a special duet performance Saturday at the Irvine Barclay Theatre. The acoustic set will feature songs from the Lobos repertoire as well as unreleased material and will be followed by a live discussion led by Tu Ciudad editor Oscar Garza.
The four original Lobos -- including Cesar Rosas, who also contributes some songs, and Conrad Lozano -- were all friends at East L.A.'s Garfield High School in the 1960s. The band's songwriting soul, however, has always been Perez and Hidalgo, guitarists who hit it off as teenagers in an art class and who have sustained a creative dialogue ever since.
Perez, admittedly nervous and high-strung, finds balance and counterpoint in Hidalgo, more laid back and unflappable. "I love this guy, he's so like a cool drink," Perez says. "I wouldn't be able to do what I do without him."
Perez says the pair had considered teaming for a songwriting showcase in the past, but the demands of business and family always intervened. The concept was revived after last year's "The Town and the City," the group's 12th studio album, for which Perez says the creative process seemed to take on a life of its own. "We just broke into some fourth dimension, and things started to reveal themselves," Perez recalls. "I started to get the weird feeling again that something was happening that I had no control of."
The experience prompted Perez to urge his co-writer to join him for the show: "Now's the time to do this."
Saturday's retrospective will mark the first public performance of songs the pair recorded as demos 20 years ago but never released. Perez says there are a couple songs "that I really, really love." He describes one favorite, "The Long Goodbye," as "a beautiful song" about "always saying goodbye to something throughout our lives."
This side project doesn't mean the pair is saying goodbye to Los Lobos, which Perez calls "the mother ship." He admits feeling nervous about going onstage without his lifelong backup because it will put him in a setting where "you can't hide behind a big loud band." For this show, he says, it'll be just two guitars and two stools.
"Thirty-five years of Los Lobos and we're challenging ourselves again," says Perez. "It keeps the blood circulating."
[email protected]
EAST LOS, THE HEART OF THE LATIN COMUNITY
' East Los Angeles has traditionally been the heart of the latin comunity in Los Angeles. Mexicans have been living there since the time when California was part of Mexico. Throughout LA county there are other comunities wich have a deep Mexican history; San Gabriel, San Fernando, Pacoima, Canoga Park, Pomona, Hawaiian Gardens, and many more; but East LA is the most urban and conglomerated. It is the densest gang region in the entire USA with the most gangs per square mile. There is about 200 gangs in a 10 mile radius.
' Modern day gangs came from a phenomenom known as PACHUCOS or ZOOT SUITERS. They dressed in big suits with pants that were baggy and got narrower near the floor, with a long gold chain that arched from the belt and up into the pocket. The suits were worn in flashy colors and with felt hats, sometimes rounded on top. The pachucos lived by a code of honor and respect. They organized into clubs with ritualistic initiations. The jumping in method became the universal initiation for these clubs. These clubs were started as closley knit units wich were considered a second family to its members, and to many with problems at home it was considered their only family. Their was a huge cultural and generational gap between the pachucos and their parents. This is one of the main reasons they started.
' As time passed these clubs started gaining popularity among the youth, and like all youth, they had fights. Fights were expected to be one on one and once and once the fight was over the problem was solved. Some groups blew the problems out of proportion and bitter rivalries bagan. At first the main disagreements were over the honor of their girlfriends or RUCAS. This is still a main reason today. Other times it was over popularity, who had the most firme carucha, who wore the best clothes, who had the finest ruca, or who was the best fighter. It was also regional at times, people on one side of town made fun of the styles people were wearing on the other side of town. These petty problems always occur in youth and it was no different with PACHUCOS.
' What changed the face of pachuco clubs was the drugs and guns wich started coming in during the vietnam war.This was a very militant age and many BROWN PRIDE groups were born and eventually evolved into gangs. There were also many vatos wich had gone to war and come back trigger happy. Once killing your enemies became accepted the modern cholo was born. Dealing marijuana and carrying a cohete or gun became the norm. The introduction of crack and cacaine in LA speed up the process.
' Drugs and prime drug markets became the new reason for war. The barrios of East LA began to turn a huge profit off slanging drugs. The whole time new gangs were being created to usurp old ones. One gang would get swept up by police and a new one would come up in its place. Then the members of the original one would come out of jail and try to win their neighborhood back. This went on for 30 years. Some gangs came to be greatly hated and people in their own hood didnt want to join them, so they created new ones. Some times these new ones would join up with other gangs for backup or convenience. The story of ELA is like the story of all the countries in this world. It is like a German confederation.
' The first barrio in east LA is disputed between WHITE FENCE and MARAVILLA. White Fences' original barrio is all of Boyle Heights and allegedly used to have cliques throughout the San Gabriel Valley and Northeast LA. Marravillas' original barrio is ELA proper and most of South East LA extending to the Rio Hondo and south to Slauson. Maravilla too has cliques throughout SGV and the Inland Empire. These two gangs are the classic EastLos rivalrie and probably the longest going feud in LA. Both of these barrios have lost extensive territory and are midgets compared to their former size. In numbers though they are bigger than ever. I heard once that Hazards, Avenues, Toonerville, and Frogtown were all once cliques off of White Fence, and members from White Fence claim even more barrios broke off of them. Later gangs such as Michigan Chicano Force, Varrio Nuevo Estrada, and all the Flats sprung up in East LA.
' NorthEastLA is another old region in LA barrios. Its most famous, and perhaps most infamous gang is the Avenues or Avenidas gang, wich is named after the numbered avenues off of Figueroa. They themselves are two ar even more gangs in one consisting of 43rd Avenue and Cypress Avenues. These two gangs at first did not get along but later joined together for convenience. The 43rd allegedly broke off of Hazards and the Cypress allegedly broke off of Frogtown. They are a very large gang in numbers and are the PDs worst nightmare. Another old NorthEast gang is Toonerville. Their relationship with Frogtown is hard to follow. Some say Toonerville started Frogtown, others say Frogtown started Toonerville, others say they had nothing to do with eachother. Some say Toonerville started The Rascals others say Frogtown did. This I believe is evidence that the two are interconected. Then some say they all started off of White Fence.
' East LA gangs in general believe they are superior in culture and honor to West LA gangs. This is another ongoing feud in LA. It is hard to pinpoint an actual place and time to the birthplace of most EastLA gangs due to their age. Most gangs atleast know of a year in wich they were started, and in EastLA the 70s is considered brand new. If your gang isnt four actual generations old... its considered a fad.
' Many of the flats and East Sides of gangs wich were originally South Side are allegedly in former Maravilla territory. ES 38st and ES 22st are just some examples. The flats, mainly Primera and Tortilla, are the most active barrios in East Los now. Even gangs wich are adamantly West Side now have East Sides on the east side of the river, ES18st, ESC14st, and ESPlayboys. Now it is common practice to force tagging crews in the barrio to click up or get checked. This has been a great source for new drug dealing disciples. Some crews are so large that they are split between two or more barrios wich are sometimes enemies, such as OFA, wich got split between 18st, Clover, Lincoln Heights, Avenues, Burlington st, and many more barrios. AMK became a click of Primera Flats, calling themselves Avenue Marisol Krooks. Most gangs wich have a K as there last initial used to be crews such as, Tiny Insane Kriminals, and even Krazy Ass Mexicans. Also gangs that have awkward sounding names that have tagger sounding initials.
' East Los Angeles has traditionally been the heart of the latin comunity in Los Angeles. Mexicans have been living there since the time when California was part of Mexico. Throughout LA county there are other comunities wich have a deep Mexican history; San Gabriel, San Fernando, Pacoima, Canoga Park, Pomona, Hawaiian Gardens, and many more; but East LA is the most urban and conglomerated. It is the densest gang region in the entire USA with the most gangs per square mile. There is about 200 gangs in a 10 mile radius.
' Modern day gangs came from a phenomenom known as PACHUCOS or ZOOT SUITERS. They dressed in big suits with pants that were baggy and got narrower near the floor, with a long gold chain that arched from the belt and up into the pocket. The suits were worn in flashy colors and with felt hats, sometimes rounded on top. The pachucos lived by a code of honor and respect. They organized into clubs with ritualistic initiations. The jumping in method became the universal initiation for these clubs. These clubs were started as closley knit units wich were considered a second family to its members, and to many with problems at home it was considered their only family. Their was a huge cultural and generational gap between the pachucos and their parents. This is one of the main reasons they started.
' As time passed these clubs started gaining popularity among the youth, and like all youth, they had fights. Fights were expected to be one on one and once and once the fight was over the problem was solved. Some groups blew the problems out of proportion and bitter rivalries bagan. At first the main disagreements were over the honor of their girlfriends or RUCAS. This is still a main reason today. Other times it was over popularity, who had the most firme carucha, who wore the best clothes, who had the finest ruca, or who was the best fighter. It was also regional at times, people on one side of town made fun of the styles people were wearing on the other side of town. These petty problems always occur in youth and it was no different with PACHUCOS.
' What changed the face of pachuco clubs was the drugs and guns wich started coming in during the vietnam war.This was a very militant age and many BROWN PRIDE groups were born and eventually evolved into gangs. There were also many vatos wich had gone to war and come back trigger happy. Once killing your enemies became accepted the modern cholo was born. Dealing marijuana and carrying a cohete or gun became the norm. The introduction of crack and cacaine in LA speed up the process.
' Drugs and prime drug markets became the new reason for war. The barrios of East LA began to turn a huge profit off slanging drugs. The whole time new gangs were being created to usurp old ones. One gang would get swept up by police and a new one would come up in its place. Then the members of the original one would come out of jail and try to win their neighborhood back. This went on for 30 years. Some gangs came to be greatly hated and people in their own hood didnt want to join them, so they created new ones. Some times these new ones would join up with other gangs for backup or convenience. The story of ELA is like the story of all the countries in this world. It is like a German confederation.
' The first barrio in east LA is disputed between WHITE FENCE and MARAVILLA. White Fences' original barrio is all of Boyle Heights and allegedly used to have cliques throughout the San Gabriel Valley and Northeast LA. Marravillas' original barrio is ELA proper and most of South East LA extending to the Rio Hondo and south to Slauson. Maravilla too has cliques throughout SGV and the Inland Empire. These two gangs are the classic EastLos rivalrie and probably the longest going feud in LA. Both of these barrios have lost extensive territory and are midgets compared to their former size. In numbers though they are bigger than ever. I heard once that Hazards, Avenues, Toonerville, and Frogtown were all once cliques off of White Fence, and members from White Fence claim even more barrios broke off of them. Later gangs such as Michigan Chicano Force, Varrio Nuevo Estrada, and all the Flats sprung up in East LA.
' NorthEastLA is another old region in LA barrios. Its most famous, and perhaps most infamous gang is the Avenues or Avenidas gang, wich is named after the numbered avenues off of Figueroa. They themselves are two ar even more gangs in one consisting of 43rd Avenue and Cypress Avenues. These two gangs at first did not get along but later joined together for convenience. The 43rd allegedly broke off of Hazards and the Cypress allegedly broke off of Frogtown. They are a very large gang in numbers and are the PDs worst nightmare. Another old NorthEast gang is Toonerville. Their relationship with Frogtown is hard to follow. Some say Toonerville started Frogtown, others say Frogtown started Toonerville, others say they had nothing to do with eachother. Some say Toonerville started The Rascals others say Frogtown did. This I believe is evidence that the two are interconected. Then some say they all started off of White Fence.
' East LA gangs in general believe they are superior in culture and honor to West LA gangs. This is another ongoing feud in LA. It is hard to pinpoint an actual place and time to the birthplace of most EastLA gangs due to their age. Most gangs atleast know of a year in wich they were started, and in EastLA the 70s is considered brand new. If your gang isnt four actual generations old... its considered a fad.
' Many of the flats and East Sides of gangs wich were originally South Side are allegedly in former Maravilla territory. ES 38st and ES 22st are just some examples. The flats, mainly Primera and Tortilla, are the most active barrios in East Los now. Even gangs wich are adamantly West Side now have East Sides on the east side of the river, ES18st, ESC14st, and ESPlayboys. Now it is common practice to force tagging crews in the barrio to click up or get checked. This has been a great source for new drug dealing disciples. Some crews are so large that they are split between two or more barrios wich are sometimes enemies, such as OFA, wich got split between 18st, Clover, Lincoln Heights, Avenues, Burlington st, and many more barrios. AMK became a click of Primera Flats, calling themselves Avenue Marisol Krooks. Most gangs wich have a K as there last initial used to be crews such as, Tiny Insane Kriminals, and even Krazy Ass Mexicans. Also gangs that have awkward sounding names that have tagger sounding initials.
Yes, he did. He had about 10 or 15 more fights. The next year, he beat the guy he quit against - Humphrey McBride - and had a fairly good career. In one of his last fights, he went ten with Rod Bobick in Bobick's home town before being stopped, and I understand he gave a good account of himself.silkov wrote:Did he ever fight again?.....raylawpc wrote:I sent this story in an e-mail to Frank in light of Rick's earlier story about a figthter who quit when winning. The same thing happened to a fighter I was working with in Oklahoma City. Frank suggested I post it.
I had a heavyweight named Tom Berry whose corner I always worked when he fought in Oklahoma City. Big guy. He was fighting a 12-rounder for the state heavyweight championship, and doing quite well. He seemed to have the fight in hand, and on his way at least to a decision win.
He came back to the corner after the sixth round and told me to cut off his gloves; he's quitting.
"Why? Are you hurt?," I said.
"No, I'm okay."
"You're not getting tired are you?"
"No, I'm not tired."
"Then what the heck's going on?"
"I just don't want to fight anymore. Cut them off. Tell the ref I'm done."
"But you're winning. . ."
"I know. I don't want to fight anymore."
All the time he's saying this, he's got a weird grin on his face, and he won't look me in the eye. His eyes were darting all over the place. So I told the ref we're done.
Back in the dressing room there wasn't much to say, but I finally asked him what happened out there. "Nothing. I just didn't want to fight anymore. You know, a guy can get hurt out there."
Really strange.
Interestingly, he quit in his last fight too. He was boxing Ned Hallacy - a "cute" light-heavyweight out of Wichita - who was making a monkey out of him. I don't think Berry landed a punch, and Hallacy is just picking him apart with his jab. All of a sudden, in the middle of the third - Tom does a "no mas" a la Duran. I remember him telling the ref that he was quitting because "nobody is going to make a fool out of me." I was glad to be in Hallacy's corner that night.
But except for those two fights, he always gave a pretty good account of himself.
Tom was an interesting guy, and pretty old for a boxer. He lived in Hennessey, Oklahoma and boxed for years as an amateur, with moderate success. He must have been in his early 30s when he finally decided to box pro.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
I told you guys how I coached American football in TJ at a school called CETYs.First time a Mexican team crossed the border and beat a team from the U'S. Hey, we made Sports Illustrated on that one. Won 9 out of 12. Well when Paterno retires,they can put two more Dagos in the Football Hall of Fame.
Anyway here's the story. The rules in the U.S. said that teams from north of the border couldn't cross into Mexico. Something about insurance. So I had to try to schedule games in the U.S. It was difficult because most teams were in leagues on the U.S. side. There was a directory of teams that had openings in Southern California at the CIF Headquarters at the County Office of Education. I saw that a Christian school in Orange County had an opening for a game so I called up their coach.(I forget the name of the school).
Their coach is surprised when I tell him I'm coaching down in TJ,but he says it's a "maybe". There's paper work bullshit to go through,but then he starts getting weird.
"Is CETYs a school or a prison ?"
"I told you it's a high school. A prepatoria."
Well,"he says,"Do you mind if I meet you in San Diego and we can go down there to take a look at the place?"
"Suit yourself." I needed to book a game ,so I offered to meet him at the border and then drive my car to the school.
CETYs is near the airport,so I cross at Otay which is about 5 miles east of San Ysidro. I've got the coach with me and he hasn't said a word for five miles. We cross the checkpoint and we ain't on the other side but one minute when this "yayhoo" sees some woman walking down the road and asks me,"Is she a whore?"
"No". Right away I don't like this guy.
We drive another minute or so and he sees another woman walking down the street.
"Is she a whore?"
Now I'm getting upset. But I'm starting to size this guy up.
"You want to go to the school or get laid?"I ask him.
"Well,I don't know"
So now I tell Mr. Holier Than Thou that he's got me thinking about it now,so why don't we take a spin down to "Never Never Land" before we go to the school.
"That's a good idea". What an ass hole.
I'm figuring if he gets throwed and blowed,he'll schedule a game with us. So I take him down to the "Adelita Bar". Sometimes I think that place makes more money than Caesar's Palace. They provide a shuttle service at the border for the "gringos" to take them to get their horns clipped at this place. For the Coahuila,it's pretty expensive. I stay out of there because it reminds me of the strip joints we have here, except at the"Adelita" you can bang the broads instead of going home thinking about it. And you can take this to the bank. The girls that work in that place are better that what they have at Caesar's Palace.They're like in there early 20's and they all have drop dead looks. The place is dark inside and full of smoke and these girls are wearing dresses that look like they've been sprayed on. The juke box has on this hot Latin cumbia music. All together,the "Adelita "wouldn't make you want to give up sex for "lent".
Well Mr. Touchdown plops his ass at a table and 5 seconds later one of the girls has plopped her behind on his lap. No sooner a waiter comes over with 2 beers,one for me and Red Grange and some kind of hard liquor for the girl(it was probably orange juice)
"10 dollars",says the waiter. I don't make a move. I'm going to let O.J. spring for everything,and he ain't shy. He's got this big shit eating grin on his face. I can see he's a happy coach. A girl comes over to me ,but I pretend I'm bored. I ain't gonna do nothin' in front of this guy.
Well Coach Christian can't even finish his beer before he goes tells me he's going to walk up the stairway to heaven so he can score a touchdown. Great. Knute Rockne has to schedule the game with us now because if he don't,I'm going to call up Jimmy Swaggart High and tell them their coach found the burning bush at the "Adelita". (I bet he found that bush all right)
Well after about a half hour and 100 bucks lighter,Mr. Immaculate Reception says he wants to go home.
"Don't you want to see the school?',I asked him.
"Naw,it's OK, we have a game."
Well that fall I took that little team from TJ up to play against Coach Crusader's school,and we won. Maybe it was like Joe Louis said,"God was on our side."
Anyway here's the story. The rules in the U.S. said that teams from north of the border couldn't cross into Mexico. Something about insurance. So I had to try to schedule games in the U.S. It was difficult because most teams were in leagues on the U.S. side. There was a directory of teams that had openings in Southern California at the CIF Headquarters at the County Office of Education. I saw that a Christian school in Orange County had an opening for a game so I called up their coach.(I forget the name of the school).
Their coach is surprised when I tell him I'm coaching down in TJ,but he says it's a "maybe". There's paper work bullshit to go through,but then he starts getting weird.
"Is CETYs a school or a prison ?"
"I told you it's a high school. A prepatoria."
Well,"he says,"Do you mind if I meet you in San Diego and we can go down there to take a look at the place?"
"Suit yourself." I needed to book a game ,so I offered to meet him at the border and then drive my car to the school.
CETYs is near the airport,so I cross at Otay which is about 5 miles east of San Ysidro. I've got the coach with me and he hasn't said a word for five miles. We cross the checkpoint and we ain't on the other side but one minute when this "yayhoo" sees some woman walking down the road and asks me,"Is she a whore?"
"No". Right away I don't like this guy.
We drive another minute or so and he sees another woman walking down the street.
"Is she a whore?"
Now I'm getting upset. But I'm starting to size this guy up.
"You want to go to the school or get laid?"I ask him.
"Well,I don't know"
So now I tell Mr. Holier Than Thou that he's got me thinking about it now,so why don't we take a spin down to "Never Never Land" before we go to the school.
"That's a good idea". What an ass hole.
I'm figuring if he gets throwed and blowed,he'll schedule a game with us. So I take him down to the "Adelita Bar". Sometimes I think that place makes more money than Caesar's Palace. They provide a shuttle service at the border for the "gringos" to take them to get their horns clipped at this place. For the Coahuila,it's pretty expensive. I stay out of there because it reminds me of the strip joints we have here, except at the"Adelita" you can bang the broads instead of going home thinking about it. And you can take this to the bank. The girls that work in that place are better that what they have at Caesar's Palace.They're like in there early 20's and they all have drop dead looks. The place is dark inside and full of smoke and these girls are wearing dresses that look like they've been sprayed on. The juke box has on this hot Latin cumbia music. All together,the "Adelita "wouldn't make you want to give up sex for "lent".
Well Mr. Touchdown plops his ass at a table and 5 seconds later one of the girls has plopped her behind on his lap. No sooner a waiter comes over with 2 beers,one for me and Red Grange and some kind of hard liquor for the girl(it was probably orange juice)
"10 dollars",says the waiter. I don't make a move. I'm going to let O.J. spring for everything,and he ain't shy. He's got this big shit eating grin on his face. I can see he's a happy coach. A girl comes over to me ,but I pretend I'm bored. I ain't gonna do nothin' in front of this guy.
Well Coach Christian can't even finish his beer before he goes tells me he's going to walk up the stairway to heaven so he can score a touchdown. Great. Knute Rockne has to schedule the game with us now because if he don't,I'm going to call up Jimmy Swaggart High and tell them their coach found the burning bush at the "Adelita". (I bet he found that bush all right)
Well after about a half hour and 100 bucks lighter,Mr. Immaculate Reception says he wants to go home.
"Don't you want to see the school?',I asked him.
"Naw,it's OK, we have a game."
Well that fall I took that little team from TJ up to play against Coach Crusader's school,and we won. Maybe it was like Joe Louis said,"God was on our side."
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Hey Buddy,kikibalt wrote:
The Vetos with a babe.
1948
Looking back at that, those kids were OK. They're probably all grandparents now. I want to say things have gotten better,but I can't. That's why your sharing of that period of LA. history is important. I don't want people to look at what's going on now and think that's the way it's always been. By the way,I'm sending my 8th grade history class over to your house for a lesson. ORALE!
Orale! they're more like great-greatparents.dagosd2000 wrote:Hey Buddy,kikibalt wrote:
The Vetos with a babe.
1948
Looking back at that, those kids were OK. They're probably all grandparents now. I want to say things have gotten better,but I can't. That's why your sharing of that period of LA. history is important. I don't want people to look at what's going on now and think that's the way it's always been. By the way,I'm sending my 8th grade history class over to your house for a lesson. ORALE!
Great story D!dagosd2000 wrote:I told you guys how I coached American football in TJ at a school called CETYs.First time a Mexican team crossed the border and beat a team from the U'S. Hey, we made Sports Illustrated on that one. Won 9 out of 12. Well when Paterno retires,they can put two more Dagos in the Football Hall of Fame.
Anyway here's the story. The rules in the U.S. said that teams from north of the border couldn't cross into Mexico. Something about insurance. So I had to try to schedule games in the U.S. It was difficult because most teams were in leagues on the U.S. side. There was a directory of teams that had openings in Southern California at the CIF Headquarters at the County Office of Education. I saw that a Christian school in Orange County had an opening for a game so I called up their coach.(I forget the name of the school).
Their coach is surprised when I tell him I'm coaching down in TJ,but he says it's a "maybe". There's paper work bullshit to go through,but then he starts getting weird.
"Is CETYs a school or a prison ?"
"I told you it's a high school. A prepatoria."
Well,"he says,"Do you mind if I meet you in San Diego and we can go down there to take a look at the place?"
"Suit yourself." I needed to book a game ,so I offered to meet him at the border and then drive my car to the school.
CETYs is near the airport,so I cross at Otay which is about 5 miles east of San Ysidro. I've got the coach with me and he hasn't said a word for five miles. We cross the checkpoint and we ain't on the other side but one minute when this "yayhoo" sees some woman walking down the road and asks me,"Is she a whore?"
"No". Right away I don't like this guy.
We drive another minute or so and he sees another woman walking down the street.
"Is she a whore?"
Now I'm getting upset. But I'm starting to size this guy up.
"You want to go to the school or get laid?"I ask him.
"Well,I don't know"
So now I tell Mr. Holier Than Thou that he's got me thinking about it now,so why don't we take a spin down to "Never Never Land" before we go to the school.
"That's a good idea". What an ass hole.
I'm figuring if he gets throwed and blowed,he'll schedule a game with us. So I take him down to the "Adelita Bar". Sometimes I think that place makes more money than Caesar's Palace. They provide a shuttle service at the border for the "gringos" to take them to get their horns clipped at this place. For the Coahuila,it's pretty expensive. I stay out of there because it reminds me of the strip joints we have here, except at the"Adelita" you can bang the broads instead of going home thinking about it. And you can take this to the bank. The girls that work in that place are better that what they have at Caesar's Palace.They're like in there early 20's and they all have drop dead looks. The place is dark inside and full of smoke and these girls are wearing dresses that look like they've been sprayed on. The juke box has on this hot Latin cumbia music. All together,the "Adelita "wouldn't make you want to give up sex for "lent".
Well Mr. Touchdown plops his ass at a table and 5 seconds later one of the girls has plopped her behind on his lap. No sooner a waiter comes over with 2 beers,one for me and Red Grange and some kind of hard liquor for the girl(it was probably orange juice)
"10 dollars",says the waiter. I don't make a move. I'm going to let O.J. spring for everything,and he ain't shy. He's got this big shit eating grin on his face. I can see he's a happy coach. A girl comes over to me ,but I pretend I'm bored. I ain't gonna do nothin' in front of this guy.
Well Coach Christian can't even finish his beer before he goes tells me he's going to walk up the stairway to heaven so he can score a touchdown. Great. Knute Rockne has to schedule the game with us now because if he don't,I'm going to call up Jimmy Swaggart High and tell them their coach found the burning bush at the "Adelita". (I bet he found that bush all right)
Well after about a half hour and 100 bucks lighter,Mr. Immaculate Reception says he wants to go home.
"Don't you want to see the school?',I asked him.
"Naw,it's OK, we have a game."
Well that fall I took that little team from TJ up to play against Coach Crusader's school,and we won. Maybe it was like Joe Louis said,"God was on our side."
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
You're right. I hope some of them are still around. They'd make great history teachers. You know pal,how many Chicanos and Mexican nationals, who are older than 50,talk about how at one time or another they worked in the fields with their parents? If it wasn't for them,we wouldn't have eaten.kikibalt wrote:Orale! they're more like great-greatparents.dagosd2000 wrote:Hey Buddy,kikibalt wrote:
The Vetos with a babe.
1948
Looking back at that, those kids were OK. They're probably all grandparents now. I want to say things have gotten better,but I can't. That's why your sharing of that period of LA. history is important. I don't want people to look at what's going on now and think that's the way it's always been. By the way,I'm sending my 8th grade history class over to your house for a lesson. ORALE!
From the book
"AMONG THE VALIANT"
Mexican-Americans in WWII and Korea
By Raul Morin
Mach 15, 1944
While fighting near Cassino with the 349th Infantry Regiment of the newly arrived 88th Division, Johnny Flores, rifleman from Los Angeles, went out on a daylight patrol and heard a funny noise in a house two mile behind the German lines. Investigating, Flores burst in upon a Kraut officer, he harshly ordered the officer outside. He was astonished to have fourteen other Germans rush in from an adjoining room. meekly surrender, and join the party to be marched back to the American lines, he felt worse after he goose-stepped the supermen to a POW cage and then discovered that his rifle had been jammed all during the performance.
For this daring exploit, Flores was recommended for a Silver Star, but he never received it. Instead, he was court-martialled because of a run in with one of the officers of his Company.
The officer complained that Flores had laughed at him when he ordered him to put on his helmet while out on night patrol. Flores contended it wan't customary to wear a helmet in a night patrol since he was the lead scout, and furthermore, the officer "wasn't even on patrol". He (Flores) could not resist telling the officer he did not agree, in no uncertain terms.
Many months later, Flores was awarded the Bronze Star for his "heroic acheivement" in volunteering to occupy a tower near the Arno River to observe Germam movements. The Germans spotted him, turned direct artillery on the observation post and reduced it to rubble. Flores received severe wounds on his back and neck. He was sent back to an Army hospital, then sent statside and later honorably discharged.
This is the same Johnny Flores that later on managed Jerry Quarry and others, he also started Rick Farris on his boxing career.
"AMONG THE VALIANT"
Mexican-Americans in WWII and Korea
By Raul Morin
Mach 15, 1944
While fighting near Cassino with the 349th Infantry Regiment of the newly arrived 88th Division, Johnny Flores, rifleman from Los Angeles, went out on a daylight patrol and heard a funny noise in a house two mile behind the German lines. Investigating, Flores burst in upon a Kraut officer, he harshly ordered the officer outside. He was astonished to have fourteen other Germans rush in from an adjoining room. meekly surrender, and join the party to be marched back to the American lines, he felt worse after he goose-stepped the supermen to a POW cage and then discovered that his rifle had been jammed all during the performance.
For this daring exploit, Flores was recommended for a Silver Star, but he never received it. Instead, he was court-martialled because of a run in with one of the officers of his Company.
The officer complained that Flores had laughed at him when he ordered him to put on his helmet while out on night patrol. Flores contended it wan't customary to wear a helmet in a night patrol since he was the lead scout, and furthermore, the officer "wasn't even on patrol". He (Flores) could not resist telling the officer he did not agree, in no uncertain terms.
Many months later, Flores was awarded the Bronze Star for his "heroic acheivement" in volunteering to occupy a tower near the Arno River to observe Germam movements. The Germans spotted him, turned direct artillery on the observation post and reduced it to rubble. Flores received severe wounds on his back and neck. He was sent back to an Army hospital, then sent statside and later honorably discharged.
This is the same Johnny Flores that later on managed Jerry Quarry and others, he also started Rick Farris on his boxing career.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Frank,You'll like this one.kikibalt wrote:From the book
"AMONG THE VALIANT"
Mexican-Americans in WWII and Korea
By Raul Morin
Mach 15, 1944
While fighting near Cassino with the 349th Infantry Regiment of the newly arrived 88th Division, Johnny Flores, rifleman from Los Angeles, went out on a daylight patrol and heard a funny noise in a house two mile behind the German lines. Investigating, Flores burst in upon a Kraut officer, he harshly ordered the officer outside. He was astonished to have fourteen other Germans rush in from an adjoining room. meekly surrender, and join the party to be marched back to the American lines, he felt worse after he goose-stepped the supermen to a POW cage and then discovered that his rifle had been jammed all during the performance.
For this daring exploit, Flores was recommended for a Silver Star, but he never received it. Instead, he was court-martialled because of a run in with one of the officers of his Company.
The officer complained that Flores had laughed at him when he ordered him to put on his helmet while out on night patrol. Flores contended it wan't customary to wear a helmet in a night patrol since he was the lead scout, and furthermore, the officer "wasn't even on patrol". He (Flores) could not resist telling the officer he did not agree, in no uncertain terms.
Many months later, Flores was awarded the Bronze Star for his "heroic acheivement" in volunteering to occupy a tower near the Arno River to observe Germam movements. The Germans spotted him, turned direct artillery on the observation post and reduced it to rubble. Flores received severe wounds on his back and neck. He was sent back to an Army hospital, then sent statside and later honorably discharged.
This is the same Johnny Flores that later on managed Jerry Quarry and others, he also started Rick Farris on his boxing career.
The guy who hired me in the District was a Mexican/American by the name of Al Goycochea. He's around your age. When I interviewed for the job we hit it off right away.( But that's another story ,or should I say a lot more stories.) Anyway ,he tells me he went to school in San Ysidro near the border. His family was poor. I think he told me they worked in the fields. He said his house was on cinder blocks and that you could see the ground through the slats in the floor.Al told me he graduated from high school and wanted to go in the Army. The Korean war had just started. Al figured it was an opportunity to see something different. He said he went in ,but because he was 17 they wouldn't let him do any fighting. But he said he always remembered his first night at boot camp. Al said all the other guys were homesick. Some guys were crying. Al told me he grabbed his new Army boots from his footlocker. He'd never had a new pair of boots before. He thought that this was one of the best days of his life.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Hey Rick,This is for you.
I see on your record your first fight was against "Memin" Rodriguez. I remember him on TV from the Olympic. He was indefeated and so was Little Red. Aileen Eaton was trying to build that up to be a major fight. I didn't think Little Red would heve much problem beating him. Anything you can add on Benny Rodriguez?
I see on your record your first fight was against "Memin" Rodriguez. I remember him on TV from the Olympic. He was indefeated and so was Little Red. Aileen Eaton was trying to build that up to be a major fight. I didn't think Little Red would heve much problem beating him. Anything you can add on Benny Rodriguez?