GRANBERRY: You are right again!!!

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 Mar 2008, 12:16

Last night on youtube.com I saw the Jimmy Young vs Muhammad Ali fight. It was the first time I ever seen this fight.

My question is: How in the world Ali won this fight? How could it be?

I am an Ali fan, but this is getting ridiculous. I have seen so far 8 fights that Ali LOST CLEARLY and the judges gave him the decision in 4 of those losses.

Joe Frazier beat him outright in the greatest fight of his life on March 8, 1971

Ken Norton won all his 3 fights against him

Jimmy young gave Ali a BOXING LESSON. This guy Young was very good. I could not believe my eyes of what I have just seen. Young reminds me of a heavyweight Wilfred Benitez, the great triple crown champion from Puerto Rico.

Leon Spinks beat him

Larry Holmes beat him

Trevor Berbick beat him

Well, let's say that Ali was not in his prime, nor even competitive with Holmes and Berbick. He was old.

I believe that in the 60s, Ali would have beat Young outright. Ali in his 20s was far better than the 1976 version that fought Young and Norton in fight #3.

What I am saying also is: Instead of 5 losses that he had, REALLY, IN REALITY, IF THERE IS JUSTICE, ALI HAD 8 DEFEATS IN HIS CAREER AND 53 WINS, NOT 56.

Granberry, you was right. This one is one of the GREATEST ROBBERIES that I have seen in boxing. Young made Ali looked like an IDIOT.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 30 Mar 2008, 12:39

So what is it then? then 216th? 217th topic with the same old things over and over?

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 Mar 2008, 12:43

observer1 wrote:So what is it then? then 216th? 217th topic with the same old things over and over?

We are looking for thruth, my friend....The media does not like to expose his defeats, and it is saying a lot. There is no conspiracy against Ali, but we got to put all records set in place. That is all.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 30 Mar 2008, 12:45

Elmer.....what drug were the judges on in all those cases? Was it green with pictures of presidents?

Glad to see this is settled. Jimmy must have been poking his head out of the ring to get some fresh air, Ali was stinking up the place so bad.

At any rate if your judgment in this case is beyond any doubt....what were the actual reasons for such a unanimous verdict? Corruption and collusion or ineptness on behalf of the judges? Or a bit of both Serious question here...I'm not being sarcastic. This is one fight I'm not disagreeing with particularly. Not sure it can be called the biggest robbery of all time but there is a case it should have gone the other way.

Don't you think at this point in time that many of the various top contenders were pretty evenly matched? Not a lot of dominating going on was there? Save Frazier over Foreman.

In the case of the third Norton fight Joe Frazier (good bud with Norton) Said Norton won that won by 1 round. Not sure that's a testament for a robbery.

Certainly the Jones fight does not belong in the same hemisphere as this controversy...do you agree?

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 30 Mar 2008, 13:10

BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer.....what drug were the judges on in all those cases? Was it green with pictures of presidents?

Glad to see this is settled. Jimmy must have been poking his head out of the ring to get some fresh air, Ali was stinking up the place so bad.

At any rate if your judgment in this case is beyond any doubt....what were the actual reasons for such a unanimous verdict? Corruption and collusion or ineptness on behalf of the judges? Or a bit of both Serious question here...I'm not being sarcastic. This is one fight I'm not disagreeing with particularly. Not sure it can be called the biggest robbery of all time but there is a case it should have gone the other way.

Don't you think at this point in time that many of the various top contenders were pretty evenly matched? Not a lot of dominating going on was there? Save Frazier over Foreman.

In the case of the third Norton fight Joe Frazier (good bud with Norton) Said Norton won that won by 1 round. Not sure that's a testament for a robbery.

Certainly the Jones fight does not belong in the same hemisphere as this controversy...do you agree?

WELL, the Doug Jones fight I saw it, and I do not think it was a robbery at all. I am being objective here. But the Norton fights and the Young fight, THERE GOT TO BE AN EXPLANATION of these CORRUPTED JUDGES. They had destroyed a lot of boxer's DREAMS and maybe lives.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 30 Mar 2008, 14:07

Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 30 Mar 2008, 14:28

elmersalsa wrote: Granberry, you was right. This one is one of the GREATEST ROBBERIES that I have seen in boxing. Young made Ali looked like an IDIOT.

Why don't you conduct your mutual tug job by PM?

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Mar 2008, 16:14

Elmer,

How do we "put all records set in place?"

Do you suggest we all write a strongly worded letter to the Maryland boxing authorities, insisting that they change the result in Ali-Young because elmersalsa and granberry say the officials got it all wrong?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 30 Mar 2008, 18:24

BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.

Lets see, Frazier hated the guy who beat himself, Patterson, Liston, and Foreman. And was a friend of Norton. And in his completely unbiased view he thought Norton won by only 1 round. Interesting....

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 30 Mar 2008, 18:57

Is there a link to Frazier seeing the third Ali-Norton fight as a 1 point win for Norton?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 30 Mar 2008, 21:59

Ambling Alp wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.
Lets see, Frazier hated the guy who beat himself, Patterson, Liston, and Foreman. And was a friend of Norton. And in his completely unbiased view he thought Norton won by only 1 round. Interesting....

The Ali fans here can't confront the fact that nobody Jimmy Young gave their hero a boxing lesson for FIFTEEN ROUNDS.

LOL

But the Ali fans here have a handling of that unfacable fact:

They very slyly (so they think) CHANGE THE SUBJECT to Norton, Frazier, etc.

I see one Ali fan above even pretends he doesn't know that the Frazier he brings up knocked Ali flat on his back and beat Ali thoroughly.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 30 Mar 2008, 22:09

granberry wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.
Lets see, Frazier hated the guy who beat himself, Patterson, Liston, and Foreman. And was a friend of Norton. And in his completely unbiased view he thought Norton won by only 1 round. Interesting....
The Ali fans here can't confront the fact that nobody Jimmy Young gave their hero a boxing lesson for FIFTEEN ROUNDS.

LOL

But the Ali fans here have a handling of that unfacable fact:

They very slyly (so they think) CHANGE THE SUBJECT to Norton, Frazier, etc.

I see one Ali fan above even pretends he doesn't know that the Frazier he brings up knocked Ali flat on his back and beat Ali thoroughly.

it was close fight but frazier won it what is your problem with ali granberry?

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:24

granberry wrote:
Ambling Alp wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.
Lets see, Frazier hated the guy who beat himself, Patterson, Liston, and Foreman. And was a friend of Norton. And in his completely unbiased view he thought Norton won by only 1 round. Interesting....
The Ali fans here can't confront the fact that nobody Jimmy Young gave their hero a boxing lesson for FIFTEEN ROUNDS.

LOL

But the Ali fans here have a handling of that unfacable fact:

They very slyly (so they think) CHANGE THE SUBJECT to Norton, Frazier, etc.

I see one Ali fan above even pretends he doesn't know that the Frazier he brings up knocked Ali flat on his back and beat Ali thoroughly.

Irrefutable fact:

Ali UD over Young

Judge Larry Barrett 70-68; Judge Terry Moore 71-64; Judge Tom Kelly 72-65.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:28

I thought Ali lost. He should have been retired by then, though. At least he didn't lose as badly as Young did to Cooney. And he did not lose the second Norton fight... he did lose the third one, in my opinion.

Louis-Walcott I was just as bad a robbery.

barry · Post by **barry** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:54

Every great fighter has a bad night, some have a few bad nights, which that typically happens when a fighter is always fighting the very best opposition and Ali certainly fought the best opposition and in most all cases he was head and shoulders above the rest...even after he was way, way past his prime, Ali was still at the top of the heavyweights. It would seem more probable to speak of Young's destruction at the fists of Earnie Shavers and Gerry Cooney as well as speaking of what was probably his best night in boxing. His bout with Ali was close, but so were most of his bouts against top opposition. His bouts with Ken Norton, Ossie Ocasio and Randy Neuman were all close fights, but so were his wins against Jeff Sims and several others.

I don't focus too much on Ali's close fights way late at the end of his career...thats a time that he should be having problems with pure boxers like Jimmy Young...I tend to focus on his more difficult bouts, or fights that were percieved to be difficult, but which Ali made look easy!

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 30 Mar 2008, 23:59

It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 31 Mar 2008, 00:26

of course not no-one beats 27yr old ali but u when he is well past his prime and early signs of parkinsons it was a great effort against frazier

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 31 Mar 2008, 11:23

I Feel Fine wrote:It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.

Hardworking Ali salesmen like ifeellikeafairy CANNOT CONFRONT the fact that

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and beat him thoroughly.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 31 Mar 2008, 11:25

I Feel Fine wrote:It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.

Hardworking Ali salesmen like ifeellikeafairy CANNOT CONFRONT the fact that

Ali struggled with overweight lightheavyweight Doug Jones

TWO FIGHTS before Ali was supposedly able to "beat" Sonny Liston.

LOL

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 31 Mar 2008, 11:35

I Feel Fine wrote:It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.

Hardworking Ali salesmen like ifeellikeafairy CANNOT CONFRONT the fact that

Ali got clobbered by 185 pound Henry Cooper

THE VERY FIGHT before Ali was supposedly able to "beat" Sonny Liston.

LOL

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 31 Mar 2008, 12:26

You Know when those two pictures have been Posted, its a Sign that Granberry has Hijacked the Thread..

Granberry, we have told you many times, just because peoples opinions differ, and they support the theories which favour Ali does not mean they are Ali Fans, Take a Hint mate...

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 31 Mar 2008, 12:43

BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.

Norton won all the fights with Ali....The judges saw the $$$$$$$$

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 31 Mar 2008, 13:22

granberry wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.
Hardworking Ali salesmen like ifeellikeafairy CANNOT CONFRONT the fact that

Ali got clobbered by 185 pound Henry Cooper

THE VERY FIGHT before Ali was supposedly able to "beat" Sonny Liston.

LOL

Irrefutable fact:

Cassius Clay d. Henry Cooper TKO 5 (2:15).

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 31 Mar 2008, 13:29

granberry wrote:
I Feel Fine wrote:It's odd how people could look at Ali's condition today and wonder "hmm, I wonder why he came so close to losing to Young, I wonder how he lost to Spinks, I wonder why he lost so badly to Holmes, I wonder how he lost to Berbick?" Isn't it obvious?

Plus he was 230 against Young. 220 was too high for Ali.

I've posed the question before... never gotten an answer, which means I'm doing something right with this question... so I'll post it again; would a 34 year old, 230 lbs. Young, coming off a trilogy with Joe Frazier, beat a 27 year old Ali?

Answer the question, dingleberry.
Hardworking Ali salesmen like ifeellikeafairy CANNOT CONFRONT the fact that

Joe Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back and beat him thoroughly.

]

*Question: unanswered
*Doubletalk: engaged
*repetition: endless

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 31 Mar 2008, 13:30

elmersalsa wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Elmer there is room for disagreement. Close fights...not robberies is what many see. Like I say Joe Frazier saw Norton winning the third fight by a single round.
Norton won all the fights with Ali....The judges saw the $$$$$$$$

Irrefutable facts:

3/31/1973 Ken Norton d. Muhammad Ali split dec. 12
Referee Frank Rustich 7-4; Judge Hal Rickard 5-4; Judge Fred Hayes 5-6.

9/10/1973 Muhammad Ali d. Ken Norton split dec. 12
Referee Dick Young 7-5; Judge John Thomas 6-5; Judge George Latka 5-6.

9/28/1976 Muhammad Ali d. Ken Norton unan dec. 15
Referee Arthur Mercante 8-6; Judge Harold Lederman 8-7; Judge Barney Smith 8-7.

GRANBERRY: You are right again!!!

GRANBERRY: You are right again!!!

Re: GRANBERRY: You are right again!!!

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