Junior Witter - Why cant he sell tickets?

[WildWaylon]

This is not intended as way of getting yet another Hatton thread on here via the back door. Surely we can discuss Witter without having to mention his rival. The question is simple why doesnt he pack venues, like he should. He is after all the WBC World champion, he did have 15 back to back KO victories, he does have an exciting style, with potential KO punches comming from every angle, yet he cant pull big crowds. OK he doesnt have charisma or personality but the same could be said of JC. Maybe a big win on ITV could change all that but at the moment he is not a popular champion, but why, your views please.

[banjo]

IMO he isn't exciting to watch, i've been bored to tears watching some of his recent fights even though he does have very goog punching power.
Also when he was promoted by fwank a certain fighter was on his way up so Junior was left on the back burner.

[Spud]

Why can't he sell tickets?

A lot of boxers can't for whatever reason -

That is where the skill of the promoter comes in - putting him on strong bills - putting him on key TV shows - pushing the life out of him throughout the media whether it be the nationals or the local rags.

It clearly has gone wrong somewehere.

His next fight being on ITV is vital - he is lucky he is on the bill of a very popular fighter in Carl Froch in Froch's hometown where the atmosphere will be buzzing - he has to be sensational - no negative stuff - he has to be totally brilliant and he has to thrill the average punter not the average boxing fan!!!

A lot of people will blame Hennessy - a lot of people will blame W arren where Witter was for a few years.

This is a good thread - like the initial poster states it will be good to keep this to Witter there are some fundamental issues that need discussion.

Don't say nothing has gone wrong - something has!!!

[DG.]

This is not intended as way of getting yet another Hatton thread on here via the back door. Surely we can discuss Witter without having to mention his rival. The question is simple why doesnt he pack venues, like he should. He is after all the WBC World champion, he did have 15 back to back KO victories, he does have an exciting style, with potential KO punches comming from every angle, yet he cant pull big crowds. OK he doesnt have charisma or personality but the same could be said of JC. Maybe a big win on ITV could change all that but at the moment he is not a popular champion, but why, your views please.

Not promoted well.

[chris s]

Why can't he sell tickets?

A lot of boxers can't for whatever reason -

That is where the skill of the promoter comes in - putting him on strong bills - putting him on key TV shows - pushing the life out of him throughout the media whether it be the nationals or the local rags.

It clearly has gone wrong somewehere.

His next fight being on ITV is vital - he is lucky he is on the bill of a very popular fighter in Carl Froch in Froch's hometown where the atmosphere will be buzzing - he has to be sensational - no negative stuff - he has to be totally brilliant and he has to thrill the average punter not the average boxing fan!!!

A lot of people will blame Hennessy - a lot of people will blame W arren where Witter was for a few years.

This is a good thread - like the initial poster states it will be good to keep this to Witter there are some fundamental issues that need discussion.

Don't say nothing has gone wrong - something has!!!

Fought on big bills for FW....Hatton's undercards

[dbf]

Despite the big punch K-O's he can be akward and frustrating to watch, which is just his style unfortunately.

He stands off a lot and can look clumsey at times and doesn't have the appeal of a well schooled traditional fighter or a mexican style brawler.

I also believe despite him seeming like a decent bloke, he does come across as quite arrogant in a non appealing way (unlike say, David Haye).

I like junior and really want him to suceed but there is just that little something missing for him to catch the general publics eye.

[hitman_hatton1]

i wonder why he can't sell tickets.

i wonder why.

[Spud]

Why can't he sell tickets?

A lot of boxers can't for whatever reason -

That is where the skill of the promoter comes in - putting him on strong bills - putting him on key TV shows - pushing the life out of him throughout the media whether it be the nationals or the local rags.

It clearly has gone wrong somewehere.

His next fight being on ITV is vital - he is lucky he is on the bill of a very popular fighter in Carl Froch in Froch's hometown where the atmosphere will be buzzing - he has to be sensational - no negative stuff - he has to be totally brilliant and he has to thrill the average punter not the average boxing fan!!!

A lot of people will blame Hennessy - a lot of people will blame W arren where Witter was for a few years.

This is a good thread - like the initial poster states it will be good to keep this to Witter there are some fundamental issues that need discussion.

Don't say nothing has gone wrong - something has!!!

Fought on big bills for FW....Hatton's undercards

My point is he is now a world champion of a prestigious world title belt and he still can't sell tickets where a lot of domestic class boxers can !!!

He is had an unfair lot in my view.

Whilst the boxer has to sell himself to a degree surely that job/problem comes down to the promotional teams - but in this case it confuses me- as there is no doubt in my view Mr Hennessy is a good promoter - perhaps some could argue not in Junior Witters case??

[DG.]

i wonder why he can't sell tickets.

i wonder why.

Go away. PlopEaterHitwoman1!

[hitman_hatton1]

i wonder why he can't sell tickets.

i wonder why.

Go away. PlopEaterHitwoman1!

the amount of this board that seem to love witter.

u should set up a fan club and go up on the coaches.

jolly boys outing kinda thing.

i can see it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdiHz1J5Rw

keep Dennis off the sandwiches guys.

[Scrap]

Interestingly, apart from Naz theres never been a Big ticket sellar from Sheffield strange.

[banjo]

i wonder why he can't sell tickets.

i wonder why.

Go away. PlopEaterHitwoman1!

the amount of this board that seem to love witter.

u should set up a fan club and go up on the coaches.

jolly boys outing kinda thing.

i can see it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdiHz1J5Rw

keep Dennis off the sandwiches guys.

go away and splatter your load all over your favourite poster of ricky ringpost

[WildWaylon]

Despite the big punch K-O's he can be akward and frustrating to watch, which is just his style unfortunately.

He stands off a lot and can look clumsey at times and doesn't have the appeal of a well schooled traditional fighter or a mexican style brawler.

I also believe despite him seeming like a decent bloke, he does come across as quite arrogant in a non appealing way (unlike say, David Haye).

I like junior and really want him to suceed but there is just that little something missing for him to catch the general publics eye.

Referring to the final comment you made, I dont think the general public know him. He has fought on Sky where he is known to boxing/sports fans but I dont think he has had any exposure on ITV or BBC. When he fights on ITV the casual fan/general public will be seeing him for the first time. This is his BIG chance. If he does well and puts on an exciting performance ITV will stick with him and that will do him loads of good. I wish him well and hope this is the turning point for him.

[sweetscience]

he is from bratford - hardly a boxing hotbed

how many tickets does he sell anyway ? is it a few thousand

[DG.]

Go away. PlopEaterHitwoman1!

the amount of this board that seem to love witter.

u should set up a fan club and go up on the coaches.

jolly boys outing kinda thing.

i can see it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdiHz1J5Rw

keep Dennis off the sandwiches guys.

go away and splatter your load all over your favourite poster of ricky ringpost

Yes, p off!

[WildWaylon]

he is from bratford - hardly a boxing hotbed

how many tickets does he sell anyway ? is it a few thousand

LOL When I went to Bratford to live for a while it amused me where the T came from. Yes you are right that is his hometown but people have come from far lesser places and made history. Hopefully Junior will at least become a big name before he retires.

[WildWaylon]

i wonder why he can't sell tickets.

i wonder why.

Go away. PlopEaterHitwoman1!

the amount of this board that seem to love witter.

u should set up a fan club and go up on the coaches.

jolly boys outing kinda thing.

i can see it now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCdiHz1J5Rw

keep Dennis off the sandwiches guys.

Actually I was never a Witter fan, but as he has dropped the arrogance of late, I have gradually warmed to him. I also think he has done enough to have got better recognition.

[Stocks]

This is not intended as way of getting yet another Hatton thread on here via the back door. Surely we can discuss Witter without having to mention his rival. The question is simple why doesnt he pack venues, like he should. He is after all the WBC World champion, he did have 15 back to back KO victories, he does have an exciting style, with potential KO punches comming from every angle, yet he cant pull big crowds. OK he doesnt have charisma or personality but the same could be said of JC. Maybe a big win on ITV could change all that but at the moment he is not a popular champion, but why, your views please.

The reason why he can't is simple. If you look at all the fighters that have had big followings....Hatton, Calzaghe, Earl, Khan, Schwer, Froch Enzo etc is all because they have an affiliation to their home town. Because Witter fought all over the place he never built a rapor with the Bradford locals where he is from so hasn't built up and fan base.

They tried to schedule one of his fights in Bradford but had to cancel, then tried to associate him with Doncaster by parading him at half time at a Doncaster Rovers match in a replica shirt as his next fight was in the town.

David Haye had a similar problem, because up until the Enzo fight he wasn't drawing in big crowds, I remember being at the Thompson fight in a 2/3 rd's empty Wembley arena, all because I believe he didn't have an affiliation with his local community and was only known to people inside the game despite being one of the most exciting fighters. He clearly realised this as he mentioned "The Millwall boys" in his interview after the Enzo fight when he has never mentioned this before...


That's what I think anyway

[jameswilson]

This is not intended as way of getting yet another Hatton thread on here via the back door. Surely we can discuss Witter without having to mention his rival. The question is simple why doesnt he pack venues, like he should. He is after all the WBC World champion, he did have 15 back to back KO victories, he does have an exciting style, with potential KO punches comming from every angle, yet he cant pull big crowds. OK he doesnt have charisma or personality but the same could be said of JC. Maybe a big win on ITV could change all that but at the moment he is not a popular champion, but why, your views please.

The reason why he can't is simple. If you look at all the fighters that have had big followings....Hatton, Calzaghe, Earl, Khan, Schwer, Froch Enzo etc is all because they have an affiliation to their home town. Because Witter fought all over the place he never built a rapor with the Bradford locals where he is from so hasn't built up and fan base.

They tried to schedule one of his fights in Bradford but had to cancel, then tried to associate him with Doncaster by parading him at half time at a Doncaster Rovers match in a replica shirt as his next fight was in the town.

David Haye had a similar problem, because up until the Enzo fight he wasn't drawing in big crowds, I remember being at the Thompson fight in a 2/3 rd's empty Wembley arena, all because I believe he didn't have an affiliation with his local community and was only known to people inside the game despite being one of the most exciting fighters. He clearly realised this as he mentioned "The Millwall boys" in his interview after the Enzo fight when he has never mentioned this before...


That's what I think anyway

I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there.


Also I think the little streak he had without a KO win did him in too, apart from the Corley and Ndou fights they were all very boring fights (Lynes and Kotelnik in particular) even if there was the odd close one. Even as a Witter fan I was watching the Lynes and Kotelnik fights and thinking 'man this aint gonna increase his fanbase at all.'

[Stocks]

This is not intended as way of getting yet another Hatton thread on here via the back door. Surely we can discuss Witter without having to mention his rival. The question is simple why doesnt he pack venues, like he should. He is after all the WBC World champion, he did have 15 back to back KO victories, he does have an exciting style, with potential KO punches comming from every angle, yet he cant pull big crowds. OK he doesnt have charisma or personality but the same could be said of JC. Maybe a big win on ITV could change all that but at the moment he is not a popular champion, but why, your views please.

The reason why he can't is simple. If you look at all the fighters that have had big followings....Hatton, Calzaghe, Earl, Khan, Schwer, Froch Enzo etc is all because they have an affiliation to their home town. Because Witter fought all over the place he never built a rapor with the Bradford locals where he is from so hasn't built up and fan base.

They tried to schedule one of his fights in Bradford but had to cancel, then tried to associate him with Doncaster by parading him at half time at a Doncaster Rovers match in a replica shirt as his next fight was in the town.

David Haye had a similar problem, because up until the Enzo fight he wasn't drawing in big crowds, I remember being at the Thompson fight in a 2/3 rd's empty Wembley arena, all because I believe he didn't have an affiliation with his local community and was only known to people inside the game despite being one of the most exciting fighters. He clearly realised this as he mentioned "The Millwall boys" in his interview after the Enzo fight when he has never mentioned this before...


That's what I think anyway

I think you may well have hit the nail on the head there.


Also I think the little streak he had without a KO win did him in too, apart from the Corley and Ndou fights they were all very boring fights (Lynes and Kotelnik in particular) even if there was the odd close one. Even as a Witter fan I was watching the Lynes and Kotelnik fights and thinking 'man this aint gonna increase his fanbase at all.'

I see what you mean, although even if a fighter is dull his hme town crowd will always get behind him!

[SticknMove]

Well it's a mixture of what has already been posted. I don't find Witter particularly exciting to watch tbh. He can look excellent in spurts but over cautious most other times - he's not someone that ignites the imagination.

I know little about Witter - but new prospects come into the pro game with a ground swell of supporters and can sell upwards from a 100 tickets from the off but the fact that Witter finds it difficult to sell out local venues suggests a guy that has little personal connection and a charisma that doesn't draw people to him. Right or wrong these things go a long way especially when his talent and accomplishments to date suggests that he deserves better.

We have to appreciate that the die hard boxing fan doesn't sell out a venue. So the onus is on the boxer to spark a bit of latent imagination in the wider audience.

[ryeboy]

as already has been pointed witter has never been in one place to build a fan base some what of a nomad, nottingham spain germany usa london sheffield etc. maybe if hed been fed a load of stiffs around one locality things could be different but witter unlike most top boxers these days does not have a padded record, most of his fights have been against guys with winning records credit to him, and we should get behind him hes worthy of support.

[sharpei_louis]

I've had a lot of opinion on this, it is difficult to talk on the subject without bringing Hatton into it, but in some ways I feel that it is exactly the link with Hatton that has contributed to his ack of marketability.

The point about building his home town fanbase has to be the most valid and the major reason. Secondly is his pretty arrogant personality, he seems very aloof, - Haye is arrogant but you can talk to him; Naz was arrogant but never boring.
Thirdly he does blow hot and cold, can be amazing at times but is also involved in a lot of boring fights - boring in the way that HE doesn't seem to want to engage. That's the single biggest turn off in neutral fight fans - a boxer who doesn't wanna get into a war. It's doubly frustrating when you do see how much talent he has. Mexican fighters are so popular in that they will get involved and take a few shots even if they're below par. Witter needs that fire in his belly and a willingness to engage in all his fights.

Couple all these things together and it's easy to see why he's not been marketable. I agree that he's been poorly promoted by all his promoters; but I feel that it's unfair to absolve Witter of all responsibility. He's been fighting a long time, and it's been pretty evident that his promoters have been poor throughout - he should have done more to change promoters and market himself. In light of the lack of home fanbase I'd have preferred to see him go over to the US, completely eat humble pie and work his way up with exciting and engaging fights.

I completely respect and admire Witter's achievements and think he does get credit and recognition, just not popularity.
Going back to Hatton, as I have to, from my personal point of view it's tarnished Witter almost as much as it has Hatton. There are plenty of big fights out there to be made, but I always feel that Witter has made it such that everyone with any desire to go and buy tickets to watch him is just waiting for the Hatton fight and isn't remotely interested in anything else he does. That's his fault - he'd have ben better never mentioning Hatton and simply concentrate on making himslef #1 mandatory in as many organisations as possible.

I know people will disagree, but Witter should have stopped mentioning Hatton a long time ago.

[TerribleTerry]

he is from bratford - hardly a boxing hotbed

how many tickets does he sell anyway ? is it a few thousand

He cant have sold more than 50 for his WBC world title defence at Ally Pally. I was stood next to the Wincobank contingent for the main event and they could have come in a taxi.. Nice lads, but there wasnt many of them.

On the undercard both Lenny Daws and Barry Morrison (whos fans had to come from Scotland) both outsold him many times over.

Quite often a boxer has to work at building up a following - doing the rounds in the local pubs, getting fight posters in shop windows, badgering local press - creating a 'noise' locally that their core fan base - direct freinds and family - can build off.

Has Witter ever taken this element of his career seriously? Perhaps not as he certainly doesnt shift many tickets and his is a cracking fighter when he puts his shots together and doesnt impersonate a statue.

[STP]

Why can't he sell tickets? Because nobody knows who he is.

Ricky Hatton got most of his fans from Steve Foster Sr, Anthony Farnell and Manchester City.

If Witter fought on Hamed cards in the 90s and (if Hamed beat Barrera) and 00s, and Hatton wasn't a Manchester City fan, he'd have been selling tonnes more tickets than Hatton.

So much comes down to luck. You need things passed down.

Chris Eubank wasn't selling 500 tickets before the Benn fight, and then was selling 10,000 in five minutes. He used Benn, who was already established to the public because of his vast ITV coverage from his third professional fight onwards, black skin, trend-setting haircut and exciting punching. So yeah, terrestrial TV coverage for a fighter coming up is important, too, like Naz had on ITV in '94/'95 (before that and before he shaved the sides of his hair, he wasn't selling 50 tickets).

But Benn, Eubank, Naz and Hatton are rareities. It really isn't fair to compare.

Herol Graham didn't sell a great deal of tickets (McCallum world title fight was in front of 1,000 people at Royal Albert Hall) and his fights, like Bruno's, had always been on BBC1. He didn't have Bruno's personality or Benn's punching. Junior Witter did have Benn-like punching on his 15-fight KO streak, and Benn-like hair design, but it was locked away on Sky Sports 2 or BBC non-live, and anyone on BBC who wasn't Audley Harrison the public probably thought was just a poor mans Audley Harrison (because of the media coverage Audley got). And plus, Benn's punching and hair design was in the 80s, which was alien then... and, we only had four (two, really) channels.