Saad Muhammad's belt for sale on Ebay

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 14 Feb 2004, 09:31

For sale to the public on EBAY, is the NABF championship belt of former WBC light-heavyweight champion Matthew Saad Muhammad.
Muhammad, who was inducted into the boxing hall of fame in 1998, was one of the most exciting boxers who ever stepped into the ring, rallying on numerous occasions from near disaster to win. His victory over Marvin Johnson was considered by many the greatest NABF light-heavyweight fight ever, a gruelling war in which Muhammad won by eleventh round knockout in July 1977. Muhammad then repeated the trick two years later when he knocked out Johnson to capture Johnson's WBC title.
Although Muhammad earned a fortune in his career, much of it was lost and he later declared bankruptcy. Two years ago it was reported that the Hall of Fame ring awarded to Saad Muhammad after his induction in 1998 was listed on EBAY.
The seller of this belt, listed as "pacatricky4dgm", is not believed to be associated with Saad Muhammad, tracing ownership to a Ring Magazine auction in Atlantic City in 1997. The belt has already had 18 bids in its first three days, and the auction is scheduled to end in four days. Neither the seller nor Matthew Saad Muhammad was available for comment.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 15 Feb 2004, 08:48

I remember when Saad Muhammed was still Matt Franklin, he had that great fight with Richie Kates. How come so many boxers end up down this broken financial road? :(

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 15 Feb 2004, 10:45

many of them blow their money, many of them just get robbed like tubbs & the 80s crew.

not long ago ebay also had 'dinner with iran barklay' for sale.

i wonder how much dinner with overhand right would fetch?.... hmmm, ideas...

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 15 Feb 2004, 10:57

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=1227

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 15 Feb 2004, 11:36

awesome looking belt....... real piece of classic boxing history.

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 15 Feb 2004, 11:48

I hate to see this. Money can't buy these type of things. What a warrior Saad was, one of the most exciting fighter ever.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 15 Feb 2004, 11:53

Lickszz wrote:I hate to see this. Money can't buy these type of things. What a warrior Saad was, one of the most exciting fighter ever.

Well said, Even if I had the money to win this auction I'm not sure if I would ever really feel like I truely owned it.

If I was a multi-millionaire I would buy it and give the belt back to Matthew as he will always be the real owner.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 15 Feb 2004, 12:35

what do you think matthew sold it for?

my guess is a pot of magic beans.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 15 Feb 2004, 13:42

KOJOE90 wrote:
Lickszz wrote:I hate to see this. Money can't buy these type of things. What a warrior Saad was, one of the most exciting fighter ever.
Well said, Even if I had the money to win this auction I'm not sure if I would ever really feel like I truely owned it.

If I was a multi-millionaire I would buy it and give the belt back to Matthew as he will always be the real owner.

Isn't that what happend with Cooper's belts??

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 15 Feb 2004, 19:28

Lickszz wrote:
Well said, Even if I had the money to win this auction I'm not sure if I would ever really feel like I truely owned it..

I agree mate, it would be a hollow purchase. You cannot really buy these things and take as much pride in them as if you had gone through the blood, sweat and tears to win it

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 16 Feb 2004, 17:26

KOJOE90 wrote:If I was a multi-millionaire I would buy it and give the belt back to Matthew as he will always be the real owner.

Nice thought, but what would keep him from just pawning it again? Sad that someone could get to a state where they feel compelled to sell what should be such a cherished possession.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Feb 2004, 17:28

Eric the Viking wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:If I was a multi-millionaire I would buy it and give the belt back to Matthew as he will always be the real owner.
Nice thought, but what would keep him from just pawning it again? Sad that someone could get to a state where they feel compelled to sell what should be such a cherished possession.

Boxrec ought to purchase it and donate it back to him (under the premise he doesn't sell it on). He deserves to keep it for life.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 16 Feb 2004, 18:47

I wonder what has happened to Saads world championship belt?... has he still got that?. It fills me with great sadness that he has had to sell these valuable items which he gave so much blood sweat and tears to win.
Does anyone know what Saad Muhammad is up to these days?... what sort of shape is he in?....

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Feb 2004, 20:09

silkov wrote:I wonder what has happened to Saads world championship belt?... has he still got that?. It fills me with great sadness that he has had to sell these valuable items which he gave so much blood sweat and tears to win.
Does anyone know what Saad Muhammad is up to these days?... what sort of shape is he in?....

He works as a roofer in Atlantic City (where Mike Rossman, a rival light-heavy champ in the 70's, also works as a roofer). He's actually fine mentally and physically...just skint. He went through a bad patch emotionally when he discovered how he was orphaned. An elder brother was told to take him out and "lose him" - by their mother.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 17 Feb 2004, 00:37

bennie wrote:He's actually fine mentally and physically...just skint. He went through a bad patch emotionally when he discovered how he was orphaned. An elder brother was told to take him out and "lose him" - by their mother.

Yes I remember the story, he was found wandering the streets after his brother left him, on Franklin Boulevard (I think).
Hence the name the nuns at the orphanage gave him.
Went on far too long, the guy just didn't know when to quit - Holyfield gets me thinking back to Matt Saad these days: another warrior who just can't call it a day.

Good idea about buying the belt and handing it back to him. After all that blood shed it certainly belongs on his wall, or at least be passed onto his kids.

His world title war with Yaqui Lopez was one for the ages too.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 17 Feb 2004, 07:55

bennie wrote:
Eric the Viking wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:If I was a multi-millionaire I would buy it and give the belt back to Matthew as he will always be the real owner.
Nice thought, but what would keep him from just pawning it again? Sad that someone could get to a state where they feel compelled to sell what should be such a cherished possession.
Boxrec ought to purchase it and donate it back to him (under the premise he doesn't sell it on). He deserves to keep it for life.

Bennie that would be great if it could be done. I actually watched the first Saad Muhammad - Lopez fight only last night (Cheers Red Dragon) which as you know was for the NABF belt, great fight! great fighters!

If only Boxers had proper Unions and pension support this type of thing would be less lightly to happen.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 17 Feb 2004, 11:36

He's apparently quite well physically and mentally, and helps train fighters at gyms all over the eastern part of the country. Nice article on MSH by HBO's William Dettloff:

http://www.hbo.com/boxing/watn/saadmuhammad.shtml

The article text, in case the above link becomes inactive:

WHERE ARE THEY NOW?

Matthew Saad Muhammad

I Wanted to Be Somebody

February 10, 2004

If you watched Matthew Saad Muhammad at work in the late 1970s and early '80s, you had to know that after he left the ring he'd stay in the fight business. He never had a choice. When you've left large chunks of yourself and your life on ring aprons in gyms and casinos all over Philadelphia and Atlantic City, you can't just walk away and become an accountant somewhere, or a car salesman. The fight game is in you, the way your spleen is in you. It's who you are. So it's no great surprise that Saad Muhammad, who left more of himself in the ring probably than any other fighter of his generation, is still in the game.

"I travel to all different gyms to train fighters," Saad Muhammad said recently. "I train guys at the PAL in Atlantic City, at Joe Frazier's Gym in South Philadelphia. I go to Los Angeles, to New Orleans. I move around." You get the sense it's not a perfect match when he adds, "Today's fighters don't want to work, they just want to make some of that big money," and then you realize why, even if he makes them work, it can't ever be a perfect match: the stuff that made Saad Muhammad special cannot be taught.

It is not hyperbole to say that in an era that gave us such superstars as Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Thomas Hearns, and Marvin Hagler - as well as several limited but wonderfully exciting TV fighters such as Ray Mancini and Frank "The Animal" Fletcher - Saad Muhammad was the most dramatic. Leonard was prettier, Duran was nastier, Hearns was a better puncher, and Hagler was more consistent. Maybe Mancini and Fletcher bled more. But nobody could match Saad Muhammad for Saturday afternoon thrills. It was impossible not to root for him.

You could call Saad Muhammad his era's Arturo Gatti if you wanted to, but it's a disservice to him; he held the WBC light heavyweight title for almost three years and made eight title defenses, seven by knockout. And it was tough time to be a 175-pounder; the '80s produced one of the deepest and toughest light heavyweight classes in the history of the game. But Saad Muhammad was used to having it tough.

Today most know the story, and why it hasn't ended up as a Hollywood film by now is anyone's guess: Born Maxwell Antonio Loach in Philadelphia, Saad Muhammad's biological mother died under unclear circumstances when he was about five years old. He and an older brother were sent to live with an aunt, who not long after told the older boy to take his brother for a walk and come back without him. He did as he was told, walking out near the Benjamin Franklin Bridge and then simply sprinting away. Police found Saad Muhammad thereafter and delivered him to the local Catholic Social Services office. He was placed in an orphanage, where nuns gave him the name Matthew Franklin. A short while later a local Portuguese couple in their mid-60s adopted him and he became a member of the Santos family.

"They just loved family," Saad Muhammad said. "My mother, who adopted me, took a liking to me because, she said, I had sadness in my eyes. So she loved me. They made me feel warm and safe because that's not what I was used to." The family was large but Saad Muhammad never felt neglected. "It was beautiful that they took care of us - everybody got treated the same," he said. "I still say my prayers to them day in and day out." (Mrs. Santos died in 1981, her husband a year later.)

Despite the security his family provided, Saad Muhammad wasn't always safe. It was a hard neighborhood and by the time he reached his early teens trouble was everywhere. "Every day when I went to school a bunch of kids would jump on me in the street," he said. "I found out that there was a gym not far from my school. So I went there and started training. Eventually I knocked out one of the leaders of the gang, but then I became one of them. I became a street fighter and bully myself. I just liked the attention."

By the time he was 14 Saad Muhammad had acquired a juvenile record and a reputation as a proficient street fighter. "They called me 'Iceman' because in the street I was always knocking guys out." When police caught him with a nine-inch knife, he was sent to Camp Hill, a reform school. What should have been a short stay turned into a long one. A disciplinary problem, he was shipped from one facility to another and ended up doing three years.

One of the kids on the inside with him was Dwight Braxton - later known as Dwight Muhammad Qawi -- who later would play a significant role in Saad Muhammad's career. "I saw Qawi in there and he was one of the baddest kids in the place. I didn't care. I said then that I would whip his ass." He'd get his chance eventually, but first he had to get out. He did at 17 and went straight to the Juniper Gym in South Philadelphia, eventually putting together a 25-4 amateur career.

As a young pro Saad Muhammad lost to Wayne McGee and future light heavyweight champion Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, and split two fights with future cruiserweight titlist Marvin Camel. It was the loss to Mustafa Muhammad, a close decision defeat in Philadelphia, which convinced him to ditch his boxer-puncher ways and become the iron-chinned slugger we fell in love with not long after.

We saw the new version full-blown three fights later, in July '77, when Saad Muhammad met bomb-throwing southpaw Marvin Johnson at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was a war. "It was like rock'em sock'em robots," he recalled. "I'd bang him and he'd bang me back. It proves boxing is for real and you've got to be in shape physically and mentally. You have to be determined and serious. It takes a lot out of you. It's like you have to prepare to get your ass kicked just in case you do. It's crazy." In what would become a pattern over the rest of his career, Saad Muhammad took a bad beating early and was rocked and bloodied, but he hung in there, wore Johnson down, and knocked him out in the 11th round.

Knockout wins over tough veterans Billy Douglas, Richie Kates, and Yaqui Lopez followed before Saad Muhammad found himself in the ring against Johnson again, this time for the WBC light heavyweight title. In another brutal slugfest, he stopped Johnson in the eighth to win the title. "I wanted to be someone. I took all those shots that I knew I shouldn't have taken. I knew it was crazy but I wanted to take his punches until it hurt. And then I would come back and hurt him." Shortly after the fight he converted to Islam.

Three title defenses followed before Saad Muhammad met Lopez again in a thrilling battle that The Ring magazine named its Fight of the Year for 1980. As was his trademark, Saad Muhammad fell behind early and was battered for long stretches (particularly in the eighth, which was Ring's Round of the Year) before roaring back to stop Lopez with booming overhand rights in the 14th round. "He hurt me a couple of times but I was a fighter, man, and I couldn't show no weakness. I took it like a champ -- by the grace of God. I'm thankful I had the ability to pull it out."

He made four more title defenses over the next 10 months before facing his old reform school rival, Qawi, in December '81. Qawi beat him up and stopped him in the 10th. He fared no better in the rematch, lasting into the sixth. "I got beat so bad -- it was embarrassing," he said. "I didn't have enough firepower. I was weak. I lost something and didn't have it in me no more. I think the fuse went out when my mother passed away."

He fought on anyway, losing more than winning. It was solely for the money; he'd lost much of what he'd made during the good times, he says, adding he didn't have the right people around him to help him invest. A lot of it was stolen from him and a lot he gave away. The fights, against small-time guys he'd have destroyed a few years earlier, didn't help; he filed for bankruptcy and finally retired for good in '92 with a record of 39-16-3 (29). A full 12 of his 16 losses came after he lost the title.

Today he regrets never having fought Michael Spinks in what would have been a huge money-maker. He misses the people too, and the scene, the way all former fighters do, and no, training guys isn't the same. He says he'd come back and fight Qawi one more time if the money was right. He'll have to settle for sharing space with him in the International Boxing Hall of fame; Qawi will get inducted this year; Saad Muhammad went in in '98. So he trains fighters, has tried his hand at acting, and is hopeful someone in Hollywood will hear his story and turn it into a feature film. You can't help but root for him, even after all this time. Fighters like him do that to you.

Written by William Dettloff

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 15 Mar 2004, 20:37

I have it on good authority that the winner of the eBay auction is donating the belt to the IBHOF.

Remember, you heard it here first. ;)

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 16 Mar 2004, 10:28

Eric the Viking wrote:I have it on good authority that the winner of the eBay auction is donating the belt to the IBHOF.

Remember, you heard it here first. ;)

That's class. Boxing can be the worst sport in the world. But also the best.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 16 Mar 2004, 11:41

The winner paid $2,500 for it.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 29 Jun 2004, 21:34

bennie wrote:
Eric the Viking wrote:I have it on good authority that the winner of the eBay auction is donating the belt to the IBHOF.

Remember, you heard it here first. ;)
That's class.

Well, Saad himself apparently doesn't think so:

INTERVIEW

Staying In Touch With Matthew Saad Muhammad
By Shawn Darling
4/8/04

What's the latest champ? I'm just living my life. I worked at Gleason's Fantasy Boxing Camp last fall, which was great. I also did some modeling recently for Ringside. Of course I'm looking forward to Canastota this June for the Hall of Fame weekend. I like to stay close to the sport. I'm looking into refereeing professionally.

Is there any word on a movie about your life? I'm always trying. People have been talking about it for 25 years. Maybe HBO or Showtime would be interested. Everyone loves my story: abandoned as a child, adopted by the Santos family, fighting on the streets of Philly, getting out of lock up and turning pro, then becoming world champ. How many people can say they lived a life like mine.

I heard you like to help charitable organizations. I recently made an appearance and was a special guest referee at a Damon Feldman promoted card for ovarian cancer in Philly. I also help coach the kids at the Atlantic City PAL. I'm always willing to help a good cause. I was blessed with a lot of things and I like to give back.

What is your opinion on your NABF belt recently being sold on ebay? My opinion on the fact my belt was sold on ebay is that it is disgraceful. I think they should have given it back to me as a friend. You figure it out. If a champ lost his belt or had it stolen wouldn't you give it back to him?

What is your opinion on the person who won it on ebay saying he is donating it to the International Boxing Hall of Fame? Like I said it is disgraceful. How are these people buying and selling something that is not theirs? It's mine; I fought for it and won it. They should give it to me not the Hall of Fame.

When was the last time you saw your belts? I haven't seen them in 20 years. I left them with my management and now they are gone. I'd like to get them back eventually.

As always it was a pleasure to see you. Thank you for this interview. Thank you Shawn, take care.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 30 Jun 2004, 12:54

Maybe the IBHOF will give the belt to Matthew.

Nice interview by the way.