STEVE COLLINS. WAS HE REALLY A CHAMPION?

STP · Post by **STP** » 04 Apr 2008, 13:05

Toney on Thornton (prior to their fight):

"Well, he hasn't tried to diss me. I respect Tony Thornton. He's a cagey veteran. When I was a kid I used to watch him on TV. He beat lots of great fighters before I even turned pro. So he knows his way round a ring as well as anyone. He knows all the angles, all the moves. He can be real slippery and I know he's tough. But when the fights over he's just a regular guy."

Jones Jr on Thornton (prior to their fight):

"He's a good technician and a tough nut to crack. If I have an off-night, he can take me."

Thornton gave Eubank and Toney quite tough fights and was anything but a punching bag for Jones Jr. In the first round he made Jones Jr miss many times, but got caught right in the last second of the second round if I remember by a peach of a left hook and went down... if not for Jones Jr's freakish power he might of had a tough night with Thornton. In the third, Tony was rocking back and forth, hardly getting hit by that flurry. He couldn't find an opening to throw a punch because his shoulder was gone so the ref stopped it. The ref should have realised that nothing was landing and left it go, but I think he stopped it because Thornton was holding his shoulder if I remember.

He'd have knocked you clean out, Crewster, in under 20 seconds. So if he's crap....

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 04 Apr 2008, 14:02

Collins was tough, but timed his career to perfection.

A prime Benn and Eubank were better than him, and considerably so.
He managed to get to these two when they were way past their best and had been involved in the kind of ring wars that Steve Collins only ever read about!

He also avoided an up and coming fighter called Joe Calzaghe, knowing full well that the young Welshman would have relieved him of his crown.

Despite all this, he was a world champ and had a rightful claim to the number 1 spot during his reign, so fair play to the fella

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 04 Apr 2008, 15:20

Collins has the Benn and Eubank names on his record, but you do have to look a bit deeper than just viewing the record.

Eubank was defeated in a good fight, but in my view Eubank should have had more losses on his record before he fought Collins anyway, i.e Benn rematch, Ray Close and Amaral.

Eubank was way off the boil when the Collins fight happened, and he was pretty much physically worn out due to that multi fight deal with SKY - Let alone the mental ramifications from the Watson fight.

As for the Benn fights, well you only have to watch them to see that Benn was finished.

A Prime Benn and Eubank against a Prime Collins and in my opinion you have different results.

That leaves light middleweight Pyatt and Tony Thornton as Collins best wins.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 04 Apr 2008, 16:10

Don't forget folks, if Hagler was around during the Collins era you'd never have heard of him...

...and Dooley's dog would be called 'The Celtic Warrior'

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 04 Apr 2008, 16:35

Right down to the bald heed...

realboy · Post by **realboy** » 04 Apr 2008, 17:24

Yep, Steve Collins was a champion alright. He beat Eubank and Benn twice each. Benn was past his best, but Collins was a tough son of a gun, never stopped, and I reckon he would have taken any version of Benn.

Raging Bull · Post by **Raging Bull** » 04 Apr 2008, 18:13

realboy wrote:Yep, Steve Collins was a champion alright. He beat Eubank and Benn twice each. Benn was past his best, but Collins was a tough son of a gun, never stopped, and I reckon he would have taken any version of Benn.

I think a peak Benn, Eubank or Calzaghe all beat Collins - a peak Benn and Calzaghe would have been some fight

STP · Post by **STP** » 04 Apr 2008, 18:16

Benn's head was always in the right position for Calzaghe to release his punches onto.

Unless Calzaghe went into 'swinger' mode, I don't see Benn in the fight too much tbh. But if they swung it out, I'd tip Benn to land big and get the better of it, in an intense short slugfest! That would be something. But if Calzaghe boxed, it wouldn't be all that interesting, Nigel was made for him.

Raging Bull · Post by **Raging Bull** » 04 Apr 2008, 18:22

STP wrote:Benn's head was always in the right position for Calzaghe to release his punches onto.

Unless Calzaghe went into 'swinger' mode, I don't see Benn in the fight too much tbh. But if they swung it out, I'd tip Benn to land big and get the better of it, in an intense short slugfest! That would be something. But if Calzaghe boxed, it wouldn't be all that interesting, Nigel was made for him.

I'd agree, I reckon Calzaghe beats Benn 8 times out of 10, but Benn could knock anybody about if he connected

realboy · Post by **realboy** » 04 Apr 2008, 18:44

Raging Bull wrote:
realboy wrote:Yep, Steve Collins was a champion alright. He beat Eubank and Benn twice each. Benn was past his best, but Collins was a tough son of a gun, never stopped, and I reckon he would have taken any version of Benn.
I think a peak Benn, Eubank or Calzaghe all beat Collins - a peak Benn and Calzaghe would have been some fight

Michael Watson stopped Benn, Eubank stopped Benn. A raw Steve Collins took a peak Mike McCallum 12 good rounds and was competing in America in the early 90's, facing good opposition. Collins beats any version of Benn in my opinion. If you could take Benn's punch, you could beat him, and Collins could take a punch.

Calzaghe beat a Eubank two years on from the Collins defeats also. Collins was right to retire when he did, you get out at the top.

Benn v Calzaghe would have been a great fight, yes.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 05 Apr 2008, 02:18

STP wrote:Benn's head was always in the right position for Calzaghe to release his punches onto.

Unless Calzaghe went into 'swinger' mode, I don't see Benn in the fight too much tbh. But if they swung it out, I'd tip Benn to land big and get the better of it, in an intense short slugfest! That would be something. But if Calzaghe boxed, it wouldn't be all that interesting, Nigel was made for him.

Thats just why it wouldhave made such a great fight.

Calzaghe would not have been able to resist joining Benn in the trenches!!!

Would have been a classic, just as a prime Eubank on his finest night against Calzaghe would have been.

When all are on their best night, I would rate Eubank, Benn , Calzaghe and even Watson ahead of "The Celtic Warrior"
Collins' fans claim he could take their hardest shots and keep coming, thus enabling him to beat the likes of a prime Benn. But, a prime Benn was a better boxer than Collins and I don't think Steve had the power to stop any of them in their pomp.

Collins was a good fighter, and as many here have said, one hell of a tough fella, but prime 4 prime, the other 3 I mentioned above beat him. Calzaghe would have beat him by a huge margin.

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 03:24

I don't know if Benn was a better boxer than Collins. Collins was actually moving and countering really well against Thornton, he was an underdog in that fight. I haven't seen him move and counter other than in that fight but he looked good, albeit very feather-fisted. Benn jabbed Wharton's head off for four-five rounds but Henry froze, and other than that, Benn never really boxed. Tibbs brought good lateral upper body movement and punch-picking into his arsenal, but he still basically teared it up.

Watching Collins-Thornton and Benn-Wharton and then Eubank-Thornton and Eubank-Wharton, you do see that Eubank was a class or so above Collins and Benn in the ability department.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:19

overhand_right wrote:Anyway, we're going off-topic.

Steve Collins. Made into a 2 division world champion by the WBO without ever having to beat anybody or even venture outside of UK & Ireland.

I dislike him immensely, still living off wins over faded Benn and Eubank.

He was tough and solid, and bludgeoned both of them for victory. He had no skill. I still find it amusing watching footage of him calling out Roy Jones!

He'd have got the same treatment as David Telesco, a 12-round clinic.

I think he even did it after the Cellier fight, which was a shite performance.

McClellan and co would have stood him on his head.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:29

The thing is,Collins was effective. Reggie Johnson was as slick as a greaseball back then,and Collins while looking shite actually arguably beat him(most people felt Johnson beat Toney). Collins is a peculiar one!

Ted · Post by **Ted** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:51

Collins always maintains that RJJ was afraid to fight him.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:58

Crease wrote:Steve Collins was a great boxer, and yes he did deserve to hold his title... For nay who ahven't noticed, Collins defeated Eubank and Benn TWICE!!!

Collins was DEFINTELY no 1 during his reign...

I duly note your location of, guess where... Belfast!!

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 07 Apr 2008, 09:03

A vast amount of posts only referring to Eubank and Benn wins.

How can Collins claim #1 or even a world champ when RJJ would of mullered him?

In the old days of 1 belt per division, RJJ would of been champ and Collins woulda never got a sniff.

Frickin WBO.

Haggath · Post by **Haggath** » 08 Apr 2008, 05:26

Pull your head out your ass, he beat CHRIS EUBANK twice

Eubank was unbeaten in 43 fights, 19 of them World title fights, beating every man he shared a ring with

Nobody had solved the Eubank puzzle, Watson didn't end up winning and neither did Benn or Close

This (Eubank) was a guy who rarely threw a shot that wasn't quality or didn't have the reflex to make you miss

Collins solved the Eubank puzzle, and in the return match -- has there ever been a more intimidating World title challenger than Eubank going into that one? Looking at those two 1round Kayos and the look in his eyes and the tone of his voice -- he kept Eubank on the balls of his feet where he couldn't generate his power and fought like a maniac to win 10-11 rounds

He took on Benn twice, felt Benn's power the first time but was willing to agree 2 another

He was definitely a 'real' Champion

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 09 Apr 2008, 11:59

This is a joke right?

This is meant to be ironic?

Its too hilarious to be real.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 09 Apr 2008, 12:41

What? Are you questioning this?

Collins was right up there in the p4p look in his eyes stakes, and he was a feared tone of voicer too, probably only James 'The Tone' Toney came close. MAYBE Tones Jr.

Pull your head out of your ass Overhand.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » 11 Apr 2008, 07:59

Haggath wrote:Pull your head out your ass, he beat CHRIS EUBANK twice

Eubank was unbeaten in 43 fights, 19 of them World title fights, beating every man he shared a ring with

Nobody had solved the Eubank puzzle, Watson didn't end up winning and neither did Benn or Close

This (Eubank) was a guy who rarely threw a shot that wasn't quality or didn't have the reflex to make you miss

Collins solved the Eubank puzzle, and in the return match -- has there ever been a more intimidating World title challenger than Eubank going into that one? Looking at those two 1round Kayos and the look in his eyes and the tone of his voice -- he kept Eubank on the balls of his feet where he couldn't generate his power and fought like a maniac to win 10-11 rounds

He took on Benn twice, felt Benn's power the first time but was willing to agree 2 another

He was definitely a 'real' Champion

Eubank rarely threw a shot that was't quality?! Have you ever seen him fight?

Love the guy to bit but half the time he was looking at the canvas when he threw a shot, big looping hooks........good job he had a chin of granite.

STP · Post by **STP** » 11 Apr 2008, 08:03

Chris often lunged in, I mean just look at the first Benn fight which was supposed to be still his best performance all along, he just lunged in all the time. And most of the right hands he threw were very long and missed. On the rare occasions he would step in and let off a sneak right hand and move, he looked phenomenal.

But he didn't seem to care about looking good, and seemed to try to be as awkward as he could be.

STP · Post by **STP** » 11 Apr 2008, 08:06

But you could't knock his record! He always seemed just out of distance and if an opponent got there, then he'd use upper body movement, and if an opponent still got there, the he'd use head movement. Masterful defensive fighter. But his offense left a lot to be desired!

mrkh · Post by **mrkh** » 11 Apr 2008, 08:14

eubanks had a very weird left hand that he called a jab, but it was extremely effective. also great physical strength, good reflexes and could be very slick.

he might of won the first 3-4 rounds against anyone, anyone at all.

STP · Post by **STP** » 11 Apr 2008, 09:09

Well, he lost the first 3-4 against Steve Collins, so...