Short heavyweights

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 04 Apr 2008, 23:46

Holyfield only defended successfully three times. Are you counting unsuccessful defenses?

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 04 Apr 2008, 23:50

I'm counting both title reigns. I said combined defenses. Foreman, Cooper, Holmes, Tyson II, Moorer, Bean. I was also combining Patterson and Foreman's two title reigns.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 04 Apr 2008, 23:52

My mistake. I thought you were referring to linear titleage, as most of those other men didn't have multiple belts of any worth in their day.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 05 Apr 2008, 00:09

That's true. Holyfield didn't have the linear title.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Apr 2008, 00:30

Collins...you do realize that I don't own a goat...right?

Anyway....Floyd Patterson was sort of short as I recall. Certainly the shortest HW champ of my lifetime. He had to be shorter than Rocky or Tyson. I'm not going to the stats here...I'm just basing this on my impression of the fighters. Floyd always just seemed small to me.

Now if the stats prove me wrong it just goes to show what "impressions" can do. Everytime I saw Floyd fight he seemed vulnerable and sort of small and I always had the feeling that he was about to get KO'd any second.

Just purely my impression, as good as he was I never had the impression he truly "belonged".

For all I know he was actually taller than Joe Frazier....but like I say it was simply my "impression". I know Joe was not tall but if you were ever in his presence you got a sense of sheer power and possible if not probable danger.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 05 Apr 2008, 01:18

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins...you do realize that I don't own a goat...right?

Anyway....Floyd Patterson was sort of short as I recall. Certainly the shortest HW champ of my lifetime. He had to be shorter than Rocky or Tyson. I'm not going to the stats here...I'm just basing this on my impression of the fighters. Floyd always just seemed small to me.

Now if the stats prove me wrong it just goes to show what "impressions" can do. Everytime I saw Floyd fight he seemed vulnerable and sort of small and I always had the feeling that he was about to get KO'd any second.

Just purely my impression, as good as he was I never had the impression he truly "belonged".

For all I know he was actually taller than Joe Frazier....but like I say it was simply my "impression". I know Joe was not tall but if you were ever in his presence you got a sense of sheer power and possible if not probable danger.

Shit, even at age 64 he still gives off that impression. I could easily imagine him KTFOing some smart-assed 20-something talking shit today.

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 05 Apr 2008, 02:29

BoxBuzz wrote:Collins...you do realize that I don't own a goat...right?

Really? I've have thought barnyard animals was your thing.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 05 Apr 2008, 07:50

Actually, Burns put his title on the line 13 times. On March 28, 1906 in a card advertised by the promoter as being for the heavyweight championship of the world, Burns KO'd Jim O'Brien and James J. Walker. Had either man whipped him, they would've been entitled to be referred to as world heavyweight champ. At the time, because he was short and not an American, the American press derided his claim to the title, even after he later beat the reknowned Philadelphia Jack O'Brien.

Cap

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 05 Apr 2008, 09:05

Burns was so damned active...even if he did defend it against Bill Squires 3 times.

The ultimate example of little man syndrome :P

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:04

Collins2000 wrote:
BoxBuzz wrote:Collins...you do realize that I don't own a goat...right?

Really? I've have thought barnyard animals was your thing.

Myth dispelled then I suppose. But don't imagine that this means you can make advances.....keep your distance, be respectful, and no admiring stares.

After taking a look at the record I can't believe that Floyd was 6'0 or that Joe Frazier was taller than Mike Tyson....all apparently true according to the record. Joe never seemed as tall as me and according to the record he is. I have to wonder if it's accurate or not. I suppose I can believe that Floyd was taller but he just seldom stood up straight.

Tommy Burns at 5'7 may not be all that surprising for the times I suppose. Supposedly folks on average are an inch and half taller today than in his day. Or is that a myth? I think it's fact.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 05 Apr 2008, 20:52

I am only going by film stock I have seen...but Patterson always seem to walk with a slight hunch or leaned over.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 05 Apr 2008, 23:54

didnt he have massive back problems?

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 05 Apr 2008, 23:58

I think he did. It seems that it affected him in a few fights (both Ali) and in training. It makes sense.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 06 Apr 2008, 00:04

yeh i know in the 1st ali fight it really affected him(ask gran) but to what extent i do not know but if he was walking with a hunch could of been the reason why his back was sore as walking with a hunch is supposed to be bad for your back

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 06 Apr 2008, 02:22

Cap wrote:Actually, Burns put his title on the line 13 times. On March 28, 1906 in a card advertised by the promoter as being for the heavyweight championship of the world, Burns KO'd Jim O'Brien and James J. Walker. Had either man whipped him, they would've been entitled to be referred to as world heavyweight champ. At the time, because he was short and not an American, the American press derided his claim to the title, even after he later beat the reknowned Philadelphia Jack O'Brien.

Cap

That may well be, but they aren't listed as official title fights.

Cap · Post by **Cap** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:27

If they're going to count Jeffries' joke fight with Jack Finnegan who was 1-2-2 prior to their meeting as a world title fight, then Burns' wins over Walker and O'Brien should also be included. There was no WBC or anything back then. The promoter filled their role, and he billed the two fights as title fights.

Cap

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:34

Cap wrote:If they're going to count Jeffries' joke fight with Jack Finnegan who was 1-2-2 prior to their meeting as a world title fight, then Burns' wins over Walker and O'Brien should also be included. There was no WBC or anything back then. The promoter filled their role, and he billed the two fights as title fights.

Cap

The promoter did not bill Finnegan-Jeffries, a scheduled 10-rounder, as a title fight.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 07 Apr 2008, 00:59

Cap wrote:If they're going to count Jeffries' joke fight with Jack Finnegan who was 1-2-2 prior to their meeting as a world title fight, then Burns' wins over Walker and O'Brien should also be included. There was no WBC or anything back then. The promoter filled their role, and he billed the two fights as title fights.

Cap

Sure, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that, I'm just saying that they are not officialy listed as title fights.