Let your heads rule your heart

Coffee Aroma · Post by **Coffee Aroma** » 05 Apr 2008, 21:37

Only good well thought out opinions please

No hype fuelled rantings.

whatashambles · Post by **whatashambles** » 05 Apr 2008, 22:38

I voted maybe. It's still too early in his career. He hasn't been tested by anyone particularly good or with a hard punch. He looks good but only because he'd beating guys he knows have little in the way of offence so he can just wade in there. I'm still curious to see how he fares against someone that will hit him back harder than he hits them.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 05 Apr 2008, 22:58

I think he could get to Hattons level if he avoids certain fights and gets the right men at the right time. Definately never ever be a Mayweather level fighter though

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 05 Apr 2008, 23:10

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I think he could get to Hattons level if he avoids certain fights and gets the right men at the right time. Definately never ever be a Mayweather level fighter though

Bingo.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 06 Apr 2008, 02:07

Southpaw Stylist wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:I think he could get to Hattons level if he avoids certain fights and gets the right men at the right time. Definately never ever be a Mayweather level fighter though
Bingo.

Snap - but thats not to say that he wont achieve that same level of number of belts, multiple weights - it depends on how clever he gets as his career goes on.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 06 Apr 2008, 08:31

Define "pound for pound fighter"?

Post by **The Law** » 06 Apr 2008, 08:48

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Define "pound for pound fighter"?

I determine the best P4P fighter as having the highest skill and achievements regardless of weight. Therefore it would mean that you need to treat everyone as if they were the same size and merely look at their ability/achievements. A welterweight wouldn't have a chance in hell against a top heavyweight yet he could still be ranked higher P4P if he was a far more skilled fighter and achieved more (against better opposition). Thus, to determine a top P4P fighter it would mean balancing a fighter's skills, his achievements and his opposition.

In recent boxing history the top p4p fighter tends to be below the light heavyweight division (In the past I would have put Ali, Larry Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis right up there, or near the top). However, in MMA Fedor is generally seen as the top P4P fighter eventhough he's a heavyweight because he has an immense level of skill and has beaten excellent opposition.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 06 Apr 2008, 08:53

'Getting to Hatton's level' implies that he will be able to tough it out in a top level fight with an elite operator and prevail.

It would be equivalent to him beating someone like Juan Diaz or AT LEAST an older Casamayor. AND have another couple of top level wins. And Diaz by the way arguably can't be seen as as big a test as Tzsyu was for Hatton at that stage of his career.

Khan, with his track record of looking generally fragile, not hitting at world level, looking gassed early with wasted flurries (last night) and a reliably porous defence, shows nothing to suggest the above is possible.

While his defence can be improved to an extent, the other details CAN NOT be remedied. With the level he's been operating at now and the level he aspires to, I can say with absolute conviction that Khan can NEVER be an elite fighter.

If I am proved wrong I am happy to drag up this thread from the mires of Boxrec once again.

yiddo14 · Post by **yiddo14** » 06 Apr 2008, 09:12

He needs work, and I have always said he should have started his career in the US.

Get yourself a great trainer, train alongside world class fighters, fight on undercards against tough fighters outside your comfort zone.

He may not be as rich as he is right now, but he would be a better fighter with the chance to make SERIOUSLY big money in the future.

All the while he is over here, in his comfort zone(both IN and OUT the ring), he won't get anywhere near becoming a great fighter.

He may tip toe to a title or two, but I cannot see him beating top level, tough operators on a regular basis.

STP · Post by **STP** » 06 Apr 2008, 09:22

I don't know what lb4lb fighter means.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 06 Apr 2008, 11:15

Defiantly maybe!

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 06 Apr 2008, 11:33

Amir has many amazing gifts....he's rapid, has superb footwork, good power, good movement and a good boxing brain. He has every chance at going to the very top.

On the downside i do think his punch resistance is questionable. But thats not neccessarily going to stop him from achieving his dreams.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 06 Apr 2008, 11:56

i have voted no, because i think his chin is far too questionable, you dont get knocked down by the likes of willie limmond and go on to be a genuine world class fighter, i would say the same as for alex arthur too (in terms of punch resistance), khan can win a WBO title, but i dont think it holds the same substance as the IBF, WBC or WBA.

and before anyone says it...Rees was very very lucky, perhaps one of the worse world champions since the war, but credit to rees, he saw and took his opportunity and won a world title perhaps 2 weight divisions above his ideal weight.

Coffee Aroma · Post by **Coffee Aroma** » 06 Apr 2008, 12:46

lawllb wrote:
Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:Define "pound for pound fighter"?
I determine the best P4P fighter as having the highest skill and achievements regardless of weight. Therefore it would mean that you need to treat everyone as if they were the same size and merely look at their ability/achievements. A welterweight wouldn't have a chance in hell against a top heavyweight yet he could still be ranked higher P4P if he was a far more skilled fighter and achieved more (against better opposition). Thus, to determine a top P4P fighter it would mean balancing a fighter's skills, his achievements and his opposition.

In recent boxing history the top p4p fighter tends to be below the light heavyweight division (In the past I would have put Ali, Larry Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis right up there, or near the top). However, in MMA Fedor is generally seen as the top P4P fighter eventhough he's a heavyweight because he has an immense level of skill and has beaten excellent opposition.

Thanks i could not have put it better myself

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 06 Apr 2008, 12:47

rhino222 wrote:i have voted no, because i think his chin is far too questionable, you dont get knocked down by the likes of willie limmond and go on to be a genuine world class fighter, i would say the same as for alex arthur too (in terms of punch resistance), khan can win a WBO title, but i dont think it holds the same substance as the IBF, WBC or WBA.

and before anyone says it...Rees was very very lucky, perhaps one of the worse world champions since the war, but credit to rees, he saw and took his opportunity and won a world title perhaps 2 weight divisions above his ideal weight.

Maussa and Urango were not much better than Rees.

Maussa is the WORST BOXER I have ever seen!

Coffee Aroma · Post by **Coffee Aroma** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:09

Thanks to everyone for your comments

I started this poll because i feel the whole Khan circus has a real
"Emperors New Clothes" feel to it

I fear people like Barry McGuigan are laying it on so thick they are digging
themselves into holes they will never get out of!
On a sunnier note though judging by this poll so far Abraham Lincoln was right......Thank God

lurkyshaka · Post by **lurkyshaka** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:24

Coffee Aroma wrote:Thanks to everyone for your comments
I started this poll because i feel the whole Khan circus has a real
"Emperors New Clothes" feel to it
I fear people like Barry McGuigan are laying it on so thick they are digging
themselves into holes they will never get out of!
On a sunnier note though judging by this poll so far Abraham Lincoln was right......Thank God

Yeah i can see that....some of the praise lavished on Khan at this stage of his career is OTT.....but it is easy for people to get a bit carried away with themselves when they see Khan in action because he is a special talent.

The only thing that will possibly hold him back is his punch resistance which is very suspect. If Willie Limond had him all over the place, then its scary to think what would happen if a guy like Katsidis nailed Khan on the chin.

But with Khan's ability and speed he has the potential to not let a guy like Katsidis get chance to hit him on the chin. Its only potential at the moment and we all need to temper our enthusiasm, but Khan undoubtedly has it in him to be a star.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 06 Apr 2008, 17:05

maybe we can talk all night, but it aint getting us nowhere...

so i am thinking that we are all kind of agreeing that khan has the skills to be a star, the handspeed to be a star, the punch power to be a star.....but not the chin to be a star. others have made it to the very top with glitches in their armour, but they have been honest as to what those glitches were, and worked fcuking hard to make sure that those glitches were not exposed.

so dont beeeeeee saaaaaaaad......cos 3 out of 4 aint bad..

Grilling Machine · Post by **Grilling Machine** » 06 Apr 2008, 17:17

World-class speed and decent power are in his favour. On the downside there's poor defence, a weak chin, and signs of emotional fragility in times of crisis. So it's a never from me.

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 06 Apr 2008, 17:59

I think Khan could win one of the major titles but IMO the best thing that could happen to him at this moment in time is a loss, as that would show him he isn't world class at this stage and needs a lot of improvement.
Khan doesn't turn 22 until december, there is no need whatsoever to rush himself. He needs to face different styles of fighters - slicksters, brawlers, southpaws, switch hitters, bangers, tall fighters, short fighters - but most importantly fighters the same weight class.

Let your heads rule your heart

Will Amir Khan ever be a genuine world class pound for pound fighter

Let your heads rule your heart