DID NIGEL BENN GET LUCKY ?

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:17

STP wrote:
STP wrote:
Riddick Blowe wrote:he was a good puncher- but he wasnt a chilling puncher like mcclellan or jackson.
Well then you, my friend, must have been lifeless or something.
http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/se ... 1019_sport

I thought the vid would be Benn uncorking a single fizzing single shot that puts the guy out the first shot he takes, you could have come up with a better example to support your point than an 'opponent' who takes like 7 or 8 flush shots from Benn before going down.

The guy actually regains his composure after getting nailed repeatedly, flush, in the middle of the round. theres no question if that had been mcclellan landing on him like that the guy would've been dropped waay quicker.

Of course Benn hit hard but not as hard as to be called an ATG puncher. Whatever, we'll just have to disagree.

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:19

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/se ... 1987_sport

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:34

i could probably find a ton of one punch knockouts from guys who couldnt punch at all, doesnt resolve the debate.

If you want a more impressive first round KO over a genuine toughnut as opposed to an 'opponent', observe mcclellan's 1 punch KO over Danny Mitchell, a guy who had lasted the distance with guys who went on to be top contenders and champs, and hardly ever been stopped. Gman iced him with the first big shot he landed. As confirmed by your first vid, in which Benn has to land like 8 flush shots, as well as numorous other examples where Benn swarmed with a succession of shots rather than single ones, there is no way Benn could ice this guy with one shot like Gman did at 2:30. That is the difference between good puncher and ATG puncher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3H9WncSd68

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:38

Yes, McClellan was a boxer-puncher with extremely heavy hands, out-weighed opponents signicantly and had amazing timing. But Benn hit harder, lb4lb. McClellan KO's were beautiful... Hearns's even more beautiful, Jackson's even more beautiful again. Benn's were ugly - just raw power. And the testimony from granite-chinned DeWitt, granite-chinned Eubank and granite-chinned Collins who all claimed 'by far' Benn hit them hardest is enough evidence, if eyes aren't.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:43

we obviously have different perceptions of what 'power punching' is then.

Look at the above clip and honestly tell me if you think Benn was capable of cold-cocking Mitchell like that with one shot.

The more likely scenerio is Benn swarms Mitchell, lands some clubbing shots, lands a couple flush, mitchell holds on, mitchell comes back, takes a few more, holds on, takes some flush and goes down. Very much like the much less tough guy vs Benn in your first vid.

But Gman just found his range and detonates one scary right hand that puts out the guy before he hits the floor.

BIG difference IMO.

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:44

McClellan, Hearns and Jackson wouldn't hit opponents as hard as they could with every single shot (or even come close to doing that, obviously) - every Benn shot was hard. And when one was levered right and landed right (not that he was even concentrating on that), it was cuckoo-land.

You have to understand that McClellan, Hearns and Jackson set opponents up for the knockout punch - Benn didn't. And with Hearns and Jackson it was through speed, accuracy and timing over raw power, and with McClellan through timing and heavy-handedness. Most of McClellan's KO's came from the (perfectly placed) left hook to the body, by the way.

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:48

Riddick Blowe wrote:we obviously have different perceptions of what 'power punching' is then.

Look at the above clip and honestly tell me if you think Benn was capable of cold-cocking Mitchell like that with one shot.

The more likely scenerio is Benn swarms Mitchell, lands some clubbing shots, lands a couple flush, mitchell holds on, mitchell comes back, takes a few more, holds on, takes some flush and goes down. Like the much less tough guy vs Benn in your first vid.

But Gman just found his range and detonates one scary right hand that puts out the guy before he hits the floor.

BIG difference IMO.

McClellan never usually put guys to sleep like that, by the way. Infact, I've not seen him putting anyone else to sleep, and I've seen 10-15+ of his fights. I haven't clicked on the link, but I know the KO you're talking about.

Benn IMO punched hardest, simple as that. He didn't have hands as heavy as McClellan, timing as good as McClellan or speed, accuracy and timing as good as Hearns or Jackson, but he had better natural punching leverages, heavy hands and the 'snap of a whip' to boot.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:49

but doesnt what you just said confirm that they all hit harder p4p?

The guys I mentioned would set up their shots- correct. The fact that they only needed single shots a lot of the time, whereas Benn relied on clusters, just confirms my point. And if Benn was hitting 'as hard he he could' with every shot and still relied on clusters WAY more than the ATG hitters, who would pick their shots, doesnt that confirm it too?

Mcclellan takes out the argentine, takes out danny perez, the other scrubs who battled to the final bell vs Benn. It took a freak of nature named Sanderline Williams to take McClellan the distance- probably one of the toughest trial horses ever.

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:53

I'm not saying Benn was a better puncher than Hearns, Jackson or McClellan or Bob Foster. But he punched harder, P4P, ATG. He had the most raw power.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 13:58

but how can he have more raw power when he naturally relied on clusters for many of his KOs whereas the ATG punchers were naturally able to take out far more guys with just single shots?

STP · Post by **STP** » 05 Apr 2008, 14:15

Because he took guys out with raw power? He wasn't relying on those clusters, he just lacked sense of timing and purpose. Hearns and Jackson took guys out with speed, accuracy and timing. McClellan took guys out through the right hand with timing and heavy-handedness, and through the left hook downstairs with accuracy. Nigel Benn was just raw power, natural punching leverages... though he was extremely aggressive, ahead of himself (hitting before setting) and got stuck in with combos.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 05 Apr 2008, 14:29

ie needed more shots to take out opponents= less power than the UTGs getting it done with single shots.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, good discussion though.

Arbachakov · Post by **Arbachakov** » 05 Apr 2008, 15:59

Benn was an excellent puncher at middleweight.

At super middle he was undersized and lost a lot of power.

fist · Post by **fist** » 05 Apr 2008, 16:17

STP wrote:Because he took guys out with raw power? He wasn't relying on those clusters, he just lacked sense of timing and purpose. Hearns and Jackson took guys out with speed, accuracy and timing. McClellan took guys out through the right hand with timing and heavy-handedness, and through the left hook downstairs with accuracy. Nigel Benn was just raw power, natural punching leverages... though he was extremely aggressive, ahead of himself (hitting before setting) and got stuck in with combos.

Agree with everything you've said on this subject. In relative terms, for his size, he was very very powerful. Your right about Galvano??, the guy hung to him something terrible, awful fight to watch.

Wharton's worth a mention here in terms of very heavy handed SMWs. They all said he hit very very hard - crushing body shots.

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 06 Apr 2008, 04:51

i agree with anyone who says Benn was the most 'natural' puncher.. just look at the Barkley fight, he didnt need to find his range or get warmed up to throw and land a humungous untelegraphed full power punch that took a guys legs away.. un-be-lievable.. i think the HAWK was a greater puncher than GMan, people talk about his kayos of Norris and Herol but the one for me is the Buster Drayton one, the most perfect awesome left hand/hook punch i've ever seen.. though GMan was a great early puncher in his own right, taking Mugabi, Jackson and arguably Nigel(out for more then 10) in the opening stanzas.. lets just conceed that they were all great great punchers..! Also Nigel left Haglers step brother, the ultra tough Robbie Simms on his back when he'd only ever been down flash, and ended his career..

Greg Nicholas · Post by **Greg Nicholas** » 06 Apr 2008, 04:52

as for Nigel Benn being lucky, if i had his luck i'd won the jackpot on the lottery every week.. utter rubbish..

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 06 Apr 2008, 13:54

No way was Nigel Benn just lucky. He was one of the finest boxers to come out of Britain ever. He brought a fiery rage into the ring which propelled his early career and brought about many early KOs, including Iran Barkley and a mid rounds KO against Doug de Witt, both world rated American middleweights at the time. His style was a problem against world class counterpunchers, culminating in losses to Michael Watson and Chris Eubank. I believe he literally punched himself out in these bouts, particularly against Watson who took most of the punches on his arms. After the Eubank loss, Benn changed his style and became much more cagy. He had much more success after this, ending up with his win against McClellan. Benn was finished after this. No way was he lucky, he is a British great and a fantastic fighter.

Wax On · Post by **Wax On** » 06 Apr 2008, 16:52

Is this guy on a wind up or Plop Eater with a new log in??

STP · Post by **STP** » 07 Apr 2008, 05:17

Nice editing, Mr Bowe, by the way ;)

Idiot.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 07:56

I do think McClellan would of beaten Benn if he was in the right shape,mentally and physically. He was basically just better at everything than Nigel. But I give Benn immense credit for winning it,he was getting under McClellans tired long shots and coming up with his hooks and short cross,McClellan had no answer but to hang in there and keep plugging and looking for openings. His eyes were blinking and his mouthpiece hanging out from around round 3/4 remember.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:05

Benn wasn't a massive massive puncher like McClellan or Jul Jackson. He was a big puncher,just not the biggest. When you think about it,the only guy he actually KOd who was near world class was Robbie Sims,and that shot wasn't through power,he just turned his shoulder into a short left hook off the ropes,nice and flush,and it was the follow-up shots that toppled Sims over. So no,he didn't really KO anyone properly who was world class or near world class! Jackson did to 'Bomber',Terry Norris,Dennis Milton,Buster Drayton,Negron,De Jesus et al and was the only fighteer to have McCallum out on his feet. McClellan blew out John Mugabi and Jackson himself -twice,and against the 'lower' standard of oppositon it was through one devastating shot rather than a cluster of bombs like Nigel needed.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:11

See here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz4KWIP3mrQ how McClellan just doesnt look quite as sharp in the clips against Benn as he does in the other clips.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:22

Heres a raw 4-0-0 McClellan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN8533evgz4

On Lindell Holmes undercard -Milton McCrory also on the card- he said before the Nigel fight that he over-sparred for Milton and under-sparred for Ward,before getting it right(Manny Steward wasnt training him at that point,too busy with Tommy H for the Leonard third fight,'yes men' were). Would of been one of the greats.

Al Savani · Post by **Al Savani** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:24

A 1-0-0 Eubank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5_kmGutPLE

You find some interesting shat on Youtube!

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 07 Apr 2008, 08:26

Al Savani wrote:Benn wasn't a massive massive puncher like McClellan or Jul Jackson. He was a big puncher,just not the biggest. .

Oh my god, finally someone who notices the difference between ATG hitter and clubbing volume hitter like Benn. I salute you.