Book: 'The Big If'

[m1kee50]

Just finished it - the life and death of Johnny Owen, who fought Lupe Pintor, for the WBC Bantamweight Title in 1980, was knocked out in the twelfth; and died two months after the fight.

Just thought I would reccomend it as it is a good read. RIP.

[Owain]

Buy it here: http://www.johnnyowen.com/book_store.html - considerably less expensive than in the shops.

[m1kee50]

"At the side of the ring sat Rick Farris, an American who had been a boxer. He had exchanged a few words with the challenger the previous day and had been taken by his prosaic grace. Now he looked at the scrawny body of the Welshman moving awkwardly in his corner and crossed his fingers. "

Thought I would bump this, still worth buying. Rick, any more to say about the man or the fight for us?

[m1kee50]

bump

[m1kee50]

Thought I would bump this, still worth buying. Rick, any more to say about the man or the fight for us?

[m1kee50]

Another mention of this book in the June 2008 RING magazine

[Ezzard]

Maybe Rick will comment...

[m1kee50]

Maybe Rick will comment...

He PM'd me a couple days ago to say he had something - I assume he is busy with work.

[Rick Farris]

Maybe Rick will comment...

He PM'd me a couple days ago to say he had something - I assume he is busy with work.

Hey guys, sorry I've been so busy, but I will get back to this thread over the weekend.

-Rick Farris

[m1kee50]

Maybe Rick will comment...

He PM'd me a couple days ago to say he had something - I assume he is busy with work.

Hey guys, sorry I've been so busy, but I will get back to this thread over the weekend.

-Rick Farris

Many thanks Rick

[VoiceOnTV]

I want to read the Meldrick Taylor book "Two Seconds from Glory." I see Richard Steele often and interviewed him sereral times lately. He seems nice enough but there's a part of me that's still angry at him.

[m1kee50]

I agree that people should no more about Johnny Owen. He was such a gentleman. I was only twenty-eight when Johnny fought Pintor, just four years older than he was, yet, when I spoke with him, he addressed me as "sir", as in "yes sir", or "no sir".

I really didn't know Johnny Owen, and hadn't seen him fight before his tragic loss to Pintor. When I first laid eyes on him, at the weigh-in for the match, I was shocked he'd be going in against a a heavy handed slugger like the champion, who I knew was a devistating body puncher, like most of the best Mexican warriors.

I'd seen slender boxers before, like Danny Lopez and Frankie Duarte, however, they were both lean and wirey strong. Owens was so skinny, he looked emaciated, pale, almost as if he'd blow over in a storm. Of course, you could see this was a kid with great pride and courage, which made me pity him for the ass whipping I knew he was going to take.

I expected Lupe to blow him out in the opening round, or just carry him for a few rounds, before ending it at will. I wasn't surprised to see Johnny Owen fight with honor, however, like other over matched title challengers, such as Doo Koo Kim ( who died after a KO loss to Ray Mancini) and Jimmy Garcia (KO'ed by Gabe Ruelas), Owen fought beyond himself in an effort to beat the odds, and died as a result.

Boxers do something that other athletes don't do, and that's will themselves beyond the natural instinct of self preservation. Sometimes it pays off, but in the end, there is always a price that the body pays, even if it is not death.

Johnny Owen was such a unique personality, one that could have been a charactor in a Dickens novel. He was a charming personality, a man with class & courage, and I was touched by his grace, as author Rick Broadbent pointed out in his book. I was honored he'd consulted with me on this event, becasue it was one that I cannot forget. That frail looking body, just collapsing to the canvas for the last time.

Oddly, as I recently shared on our thread, Marty Denkin, the referee of the Pintor-Owen match, spoke with me about this, and other L.A. title fights that resulted in death, less than an hour before a young prelim fighter named Jackson Burcell would collapse and die, following a prelim match last summer.

I didn't speak at length with Denkin regarding the Owen fight, because he is a friend and I know he had taken heat for not stopping the match before it was too late. The fact is, Johnny Owen was still trying to win and punching back. There is a fine line between "giving a kid a chance" or stopping a match "too early". Referee Gwen Adair and I have had quite a few conversations about stoppages, and such.

Gwen said that the late L.A. referee Dick Young, told her when she first began officiating, that it was ALWAYS better to stop it "too early", than risk stopping it too late. The fans hate an early stoppage, but screw the fans. As Max Baer once said after being KO'ed by Joe Louis . . . "If I'm going to be executed in public, people are going to have to pay a helleva lot more than $25 for a ringside seat! (or something to that effect?)

Something to think about?

-Rick Farris

I agree with you that if a ref is going to stop a fight - stop it early. Our enjoyment isnt worth someones serious injury/death.

Thanks very much for PM'ing me this, its great to hear more about what seems a remarkable man.

[Rick Farris]

I agree that people should no more about Johnny Owen. He was such a gentleman. I was only twenty-eight when Johnny fought Pintor, just four years older than he was, yet, when I spoke with him, he addressed me as "sir", as in "yes sir", or "no sir".

I really didn't know Johnny Owen, and hadn't seen him fight before his tragic loss to Pintor. When I first laid eyes on him, at the weigh-in for the match, I was shocked he'd be going in against a a heavy handed slugger like the champion, who I knew was a devistating body puncher, like most of the best Mexican warriors.

I'd seen slender boxers before, like Danny Lopez and Frankie Duarte, however, they were both lean and wirey strong. Owens was so skinny, he looked emaciated, pale, almost as if he'd blow over in a storm. Of course, you could see this was a kid with great pride and courage, which made me pity him for the ass whipping I knew he was going to take.

I expected Lupe to blow him out in the opening round, or just carry him for a few rounds, before ending it at will. I wasn't surprised to see Johnny Owen fight with honor, however, like other over matched title challengers, such as Doo Koo Kim ( who died after a KO loss to Ray Mancini) and Jimmy Garcia (KO'ed by Gabe Ruelas), Owen fought beyond himself in an effort to beat the odds, and died as a result.

Boxers do something that other athletes don't do, and that's will themselves beyond the natural instinct of self preservation. Sometimes it pays off, but in the end, there is always a price that the body pays, even if it is not death.

Johnny Owen was such a unique personality, one that could have been a charactor in a Dickens novel. He was a charming personality, a man with class & courage, and I was touched by his grace, as author Rick Broadbent pointed out in his book. I was honored he'd consulted with me on this event, becasue it was one that I cannot forget. That frail looking body, just collapsing to the canvas for the last time.

Oddly, as I recently shared on our thread, Marty Denkin, the referee of the Pintor-Owen match, spoke with me about this, and other L.A. title fights that resulted in death, less than an hour before a young prelim fighter named Jackson Burcell would collapse and die, following a prelim match last summer.

I didn't speak at length with Denkin regarding the Owen fight, because he is a friend and I know he had taken heat for not stopping the match before it was too late. The fact is, Johnny Owen was still trying to win and punching back. There is a fine line between "giving a kid a chance" or stopping a match "too early". Referee Gwen Adair and I have had quite a few conversations about stoppages, and such.

Gwen said that the late L.A. referee Dick Young, told her when she first began officiating, that it was ALWAYS better to stop it "too early", than risk stopping it too late. The fans hate an early stoppage, but screw the fans. As Max Baer once said after being KO'ed by Joe Louis . . . "If I'm going to be executed in public, people are going to have to pay a helleva lot more than $25 for a ringside seat! (or something to that effect?)

Something to think about?

-Rick Farris

I agree with you that if a ref is going to stop a fight - stop it early. Our enjoyment isnt worth someones serious injury/death.

Thanks very much for PM'ing me this, its great to hear more about what seems a remarkable man.

Rick Broadbent's description of the hostile crowd at L.A.'s Olympic Auditorium was straight away. As an L.A. boxer, a white boxer who fought primarily Latino opposition, I was always treated with respect by the crowd, however, I was a local kid and I never challenged a Mexican World Champ for his title.

One thing I have seen, up close and personal, is how violent and explosive a crowd can be, especially a crowd dominated by Mexican Nationals who crossed the border to root for their heros. It's a reason to party and alcohol plays a big part. Fights break out in the audience, fire crackers are lit, somebody gets stabbed.

Much worse than the crowd attending the Pintor-Owen match, was one sixteen years earlier, when Flyweight champ, Hiroyuki Ebihara defeated Mexican Efren "Alacran" Torres, by narrow decision. The fans tore the Olympic Auditorium apart.

Same thing at the Forum in 1968, when bantam champ Lionel Rose came off the deck to get a close nod over favorite ChuCho Castillo. I was at that one, also. If you beat a Mexican champ via a narrow decision, in L.A., things could get ugly. Had Johnny Owen upset Pintor that night, Hell would have broken loose. Guaranteed!


-Rick Farris

[Expug]

Im sure it wasnt easy for Greg Haugen when he fought Julio Ceasar Chavez in Mexico City either.
I think that crowd got discount tickets, or some may have been free.
There was about 100, 000 there and on top of that Haugen, who was a cocky kid talked a little smack beforehand and got Julio and the locals pissed at him.
Thats at least how I remember it, maybe someone here can shine a little light on that event.

[Rick Farris]

Im sure it wasnt easy for Greg Haugen when he fought Julio Ceasar Chavez in Mexico City either.
I think that crowd got discount tickets, or some may have been free.
There was about 100, 000 there and on top of that Haugen, who was a cocky kid talked a little smack beforehand and got Julio and the locals pissed at him.
Thats at least how I remember it, maybe someone here can shine a little light on that event.

PUG . . .

The Chavez-Haugen fight set an all-time attendence record for a boxing match, much the result of Haugen's alleged comment regarding Chavez' opponents being "nothing more than a bunch Mexican cab drivers."

The comment infuriated Chavez, who chose to carry Haugen, in order to give him a severe whipping before taking him out. At the 2006 WBHOF Induction banquet, I had a chance to ask Greg about that comment, and he claims to have never said such a thing. Haugen told me that Don King spread the story to the press in order to boost the gate, and his plan worked, much to the suffering of Haugen, who hung in as long as he could against "El Gran Campeon".

"The comment came from King, not me", Haugen claimed. "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid."

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

I agree that people should no more about Johnny Owen. He was such a gentleman. I was only twenty-eight when Johnny fought Pintor, just four years older than he was, yet, when I spoke with him, he addressed me as "sir", as in "yes sir", or "no sir".

I really didn't know Johnny Owen, and hadn't seen him fight before his tragic loss to Pintor. When I first laid eyes on him, at the weigh-in for the match, I was shocked he'd be going in against a a heavy handed slugger like the champion, who I knew was a devistating body puncher, like most of the best Mexican warriors.

I'd seen slender boxers before, like Danny Lopez and Frankie Duarte, however, they were both lean and wirey strong. Owens was so skinny, he looked emaciated, pale, almost as if he'd blow over in a storm. Of course, you could see this was a kid with great pride and courage, which made me pity him for the ass whipping I knew he was going to take.

I expected Lupe to blow him out in the opening round, or just carry him for a few rounds, before ending it at will. I wasn't surprised to see Johnny Owen fight with honor, however, like other over matched title challengers, such as Doo Koo Kim ( who died after a KO loss to Ray Mancini) and Jimmy Garcia (KO'ed by Gabe Ruelas), Owen fought beyond himself in an effort to beat the odds, and died as a result.

Boxers do something that other athletes don't do, and that's will themselves beyond the natural instinct of self preservation. Sometimes it pays off, but in the end, there is always a price that the body pays, even if it is not death.

Johnny Owen was such a unique personality, one that could have been a charactor in a Dickens novel. He was a charming personality, a man with class & courage, and I was touched by his grace, as author Rick Broadbent pointed out in his book. I was honored he'd consulted with me on this event, becasue it was one that I cannot forget. That frail looking body, just collapsing to the canvas for the last time.

Oddly, as I recently shared on our thread, Marty Denkin, the referee of the Pintor-Owen match, spoke with me about this, and other L.A. title fights that resulted in death, less than an hour before a young prelim fighter named Jackson Burcell would collapse and die, following a prelim match last summer.

I didn't speak at length with Denkin regarding the Owen fight, because he is a friend and I know he had taken heat for not stopping the match before it was too late. The fact is, Johnny Owen was still trying to win and punching back. There is a fine line between "giving a kid a chance" or stopping a match "too early". Referee Gwen Adair and I have had quite a few conversations about stoppages, and such.

Gwen said that the late L.A. referee Dick Young, told her when she first began officiating, that it was ALWAYS better to stop it "too early", than risk stopping it too late. The fans hate an early stoppage, but screw the fans. As Max Baer once said after being KO'ed by Joe Louis . . . "If I'm going to be executed in public, people are going to have to pay a helleva lot more than $25 for a ringside seat! (or something to that effect?)

Something to think about?

-Rick Farris

I agree with you that if a ref is going to stop a fight - stop it early. Our enjoyment isnt worth someones serious injury/death.

Thanks very much for PM'ing me this, its great to hear more about what seems a remarkable man.

Matthews, I just spoke with referee Gwen Adair, who was also ringside for the Pintor-Owens fight, as a spectator. I told her we were discussing the fight and she offered this. "When I watched Owen enter the ring, his skin was so pale white, and pasted to his bones, you could see the blood veins popping out around his eyes and nose." Gwen continued, "And the way he went down for the last time, his body fell limp, like a piece of spaghetti."

Once again, Hall of Fame ref Gwen Adair repeated the great advice given to her by the late Dick Young . . . "Better to stop it too soon, than too late."

Amen!

-Rick Farris

[Expug]

Im sure it wasnt easy for Greg Haugen when he fought Julio Ceasar Chavez in Mexico City either.
I think that crowd got discount tickets, or some may have been free.
There was about 100, 000 there and on top of that Haugen, who was a cocky kid talked a little smack beforehand and got Julio and the locals pissed at him.
Thats at least how I remember it, maybe someone here can shine a little light on that event.

PUG . . .

The Chavez-Haugen fight set an all-time attendence record for a boxing match, much the result of Haugen's alleged comment regarding Chavez' opponents being "nothing more than a bunch Mexican cab drivers."

The comment infuriated Chavez, who chose to carry Haugen, in order to give him a severe whipping before taking him out. At the 2006 WBHOF Induction banquet, I had a chance to ask Greg about that comment, and he claims to have never said such a thing. Haugen told me that Don King spread the story to the press in order to boost the gate, and his plan worked, much to the suffering of Haugen, who hung in as long as he could against "El Gran Campeon".

"The comment came from King, not me", Haugen claimed. "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid."

-Rick Farris

Wow, thanks for that info Rick.
If Im Haugen, Im not too pleased with Don spreading that rumor!

[Rick Farris]

Im sure it wasnt easy for Greg Haugen when he fought Julio Ceasar Chavez in Mexico City either.
I think that crowd got discount tickets, or some may have been free.
There was about 100, 000 there and on top of that Haugen, who was a cocky kid talked a little smack beforehand and got Julio and the locals pissed at him.
Thats at least how I remember it, maybe someone here can shine a little light on that event.

PUG . . .

The Chavez-Haugen fight set an all-time attendence record for a boxing match, much the result of Haugen's alleged comment regarding Chavez' opponents being "nothing more than a bunch Mexican cab drivers."

The comment infuriated Chavez, who chose to carry Haugen, in order to give him a severe whipping before taking him out. At the 2006 WBHOF Induction banquet, I had a chance to ask Greg about that comment, and he claims to have never said such a thing. Haugen told me that Don King spread the story to the press in order to boost the gate, and his plan worked, much to the suffering of Haugen, who hung in as long as he could against "El Gran Campeon".

"The comment came from King, not me", Haugen claimed. "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid."

-Rick Farris

Wow, thanks for that info Rick.
If Im Haugen, Im not too pleased with Don spreading that rumor!

Yeah, talk about getting thrown under the bus, or in this case, taxi cab.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

PUG . . .

The Chavez-Haugen fight set an all-time attendence record for a boxing match, much the result of Haugen's alleged comment regarding Chavez' opponents being "nothing more than a bunch Mexican cab drivers."

The comment infuriated Chavez, who chose to carry Haugen, in order to give him a severe whipping before taking him out. At the 2006 WBHOF Induction banquet, I had a chance to ask Greg about that comment, and he claims to have never said such a thing. Haugen told me that Don King spread the story to the press in order to boost the gate, and his plan worked, much to the suffering of Haugen, who hung in as long as he could against "El Gran Campeon".

"The comment came from King, not me", Haugen claimed. "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid."

-Rick Farris

Wow, thanks for that info Rick.
If Im Haugen, Im not too pleased with Don spreading that rumor!

Yeah, talk about getting thrown under the bus, or in this case, taxi cab.

-Rick

Come to think of it, I recall Haugen's comment after the fight, when asked about his claim that Chavez opponents were nothing more than Mexican cab drivers.

Haugen acknowledged . . . "they were pretty tough cab drivers".


-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

I agree that people should no more about Johnny Owen. He was such a gentleman. I was only twenty-eight when Johnny fought Pintor, just four years older than he was, yet, when I spoke with him, he addressed me as "sir", as in "yes sir", or "no sir".

I really didn't know Johnny Owen, and hadn't seen him fight before his tragic loss to Pintor. When I first laid eyes on him, at the weigh-in for the match, I was shocked he'd be going in against a a heavy handed slugger like the champion, who I knew was a devistating body puncher, like most of the best Mexican warriors.

I'd seen slender boxers before, like Danny Lopez and Frankie Duarte, however, they were both lean and wirey strong. Owens was so skinny, he looked emaciated, pale, almost as if he'd blow over in a storm. Of course, you could see this was a kid with great pride and courage, which made me pity him for the ass whipping I knew he was going to take.

I expected Lupe to blow him out in the opening round, or just carry him for a few rounds, before ending it at will. I wasn't surprised to see Johnny Owen fight with honor, however, like other over matched title challengers, such as Doo Koo Kim ( who died after a KO loss to Ray Mancini) and Jimmy Garcia (KO'ed by Gabe Ruelas), Owen fought beyond himself in an effort to beat the odds, and died as a result.

Boxers do something that other athletes don't do, and that's will themselves beyond the natural instinct of self preservation. Sometimes it pays off, but in the end, there is always a price that the body pays, even if it is not death.

Johnny Owen was such a unique personality, one that could have been a charactor in a Dickens novel. He was a charming personality, a man with class & courage, and I was touched by his grace, as author Rick Broadbent pointed out in his book. I was honored he'd consulted with me on this event, becasue it was one that I cannot forget. That frail looking body, just collapsing to the canvas for the last time.

Oddly, as I recently shared on our thread, Marty Denkin, the referee of the Pintor-Owen match, spoke with me about this, and other L.A. title fights that resulted in death, less than an hour before a young prelim fighter named Jackson Burcell would collapse and die, following a prelim match last summer.

I didn't speak at length with Denkin regarding the Owen fight, because he is a friend and I know he had taken heat for not stopping the match before it was too late. The fact is, Johnny Owen was still trying to win and punching back. There is a fine line between "giving a kid a chance" or stopping a match "too early". Referee Gwen Adair and I have had quite a few conversations about stoppages, and such.

Gwen said that the late L.A. referee Dick Young, told her when she first began officiating, that it was ALWAYS better to stop it "too early", than risk stopping it too late. The fans hate an early stoppage, but screw the fans. As Max Baer once said after being KO'ed by Joe Louis . . . "If I'm going to be executed in public, people are going to have to pay a helleva lot more than $25 for a ringside seat! (or something to that effect?)

Something to think about?

-Rick Farris

I agree with you that if a ref is going to stop a fight - stop it early. Our enjoyment isnt worth someones serious injury/death.

Thanks very much for PM'ing me this, its great to hear more about what seems a remarkable man.

Rick Broadbent's description of the hostile crowd at L.A.'s Olympic Auditorium was straight away. As an L.A. boxer, a white boxer who fought primarily Latino opposition, I was always treated with respect by the crowd, however, I was a local kid and I never challenged a Mexican World Champ for his title.

One thing I have seen, up close and personal, is how violent and explosive a crowd can be, especially a crowd dominated by Mexican Nationals who crossed the border to root for their heros. It's a reason to party and alcohol plays a big part. Fights break out in the audience, fire crackers are lit, somebody gets stabbed.

Much worse than the crowd attending the Pintor-Owen match, was one sixteen years earlier, when Flyweight champ, Hiroyuki Ebihara defeated Mexican Efren "Alacran" Torres, by narrow decision. The fans tore the Olympic Auditorium apart.

Same thing at the Forum in 1968, when bantam champ Lionel Rose came off the deck to get a close nod over favorite ChuCho Castillo. I was at that one, also. If you beat a Mexican champ via a narrow decision, in L.A., things could get ugly. Had Johnny Owen upset Pintor that night, Hell would have broken loose. Guaranteed!


-Rick Farris

Rick
I'll tell you something even more scary. A foreigner going to Mexico and beating a Mexican. I posted what I saw when Davey Moore KO'd Kid Irapuato in the bullring in TJ. And Hedgemon Lewis KO ing Raul Rodriguez at the Jai Lai Palace. Full body armor wouldn't have helped. But I also wrote about the fight where Saldivar lost his title and first fight to Shibata at the Auditorium. It was eerie. The Mexican crowd wasn't upset. I could sense it as the fight progressed. Maybe because Saldivar was never in the fight? I really don't know.

[m1kee50]

Wow, thanks for that info Rick.
If Im Haugen, Im not too pleased with Don spreading that rumor!

Yeah, talk about getting thrown under the bus, or in this case, taxi cab.

-Rick

Come to think of it, I recall Haugen's comment after the fight, when asked about his claim that Chavez opponents were nothing more than Mexican cab drivers.

Haugen acknowledged . . . "they were pretty tough cab drivers".


-Rick Farris

I guess that when you look at Chavez's record on here, there are many early opponents that have shallow records - a lot of 0-0 fighters on there - but I'm told that Boxrec is adding newly discovered fights every day, and if some of these 0-0, or 1-4 fighters are really toughened journeymen, then it only improves the legacy of Julio Cesar Chevez, in my opinion.

[Rick Farris]

I agree with you that if a ref is going to stop a fight - stop it early. Our enjoyment isnt worth someones serious injury/death.

Thanks very much for PM'ing me this, its great to hear more about what seems a remarkable man.

Rick Broadbent's description of the hostile crowd at L.A.'s Olympic Auditorium was straight away. As an L.A. boxer, a white boxer who fought primarily Latino opposition, I was always treated with respect by the crowd, however, I was a local kid and I never challenged a Mexican World Champ for his title.

One thing I have seen, up close and personal, is how violent and explosive a crowd can be, especially a crowd dominated by Mexican Nationals who crossed the border to root for their heros. It's a reason to party and alcohol plays a big part. Fights break out in the audience, fire crackers are lit, somebody gets stabbed.

Much worse than the crowd attending the Pintor-Owen match, was one sixteen years earlier, when Flyweight champ, Hiroyuki Ebihara defeated Mexican Efren "Alacran" Torres, by narrow decision. The fans tore the Olympic Auditorium apart.

Same thing at the Forum in 1968, when bantam champ Lionel Rose came off the deck to get a close nod over favorite ChuCho Castillo. I was at that one, also. If you beat a Mexican champ via a narrow decision, in L.A., things could get ugly. Had Johnny Owen upset Pintor that night, Hell would have broken loose. Guaranteed!


-Rick Farris

Rick
I'll tell you something even more scary. A foreigner going to Mexico and beating a Mexican. I posted what I saw when Davey Moore KO'd Kid Irapuato in the bullring in TJ. And Hedgemon Lewis KO ing Raul Rodriguez at the Jai Lai Palace. Full body armor wouldn't have helped. But I also wrote about the fight where Saldivar lost his title and first fight to Shibata at the Auditorium. It was eerie. The Mexican crowd wasn't upset. I could sense it as the fight progressed. Maybe because Saldivar was never in the fight? I really don't know.

Dagos, your stories were spot on, and I know from personal experience that things get extreme. I'll never forget an amateur fight I had in Mexicali. It was in 1969, and L.A. amateurs had a team that would fight a team from Baja, Cal. In fact, Frank might remember this. We fought their team first, at El Monte Legion. A few months later, we fought a different team from Ensenada, in Mexicali.

I was with a friend & occasional opponent, Frankie Santillian (remember him Frank B.??), and when our team entered the arena, the door men were frisking people for weapons, and a box next to the door was filled with guns, knives, and various other things, including a sling shot (which no doubt included a rock with my name on it).

The Ensenada team was pretty weak and we won just about every fight. This didn't go down well with the crowd. Now, they took weapons off the fans but they were served beer in bottles, one that landed at my feet after I stopped my opponent. Like Ortiz, three years earlier, we got out of the ring quickly.

I've a better story involving a match between my former stablemate, Dwight Hawkins, and his fight with Mexican champ Aurileo Muniz. Johnny Flores gave us the low down on what happened down in Tampico in 1967. Dagos, I'll get back to that later.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Dwight "The Hawk" Hawkins in Mexico . . .

There are thousands of stories relating to "bad decisions" rendered in Mexican boxing rings favoring hometown talent, and nobody knows this better than former featherweight contender, Dwight Hawkins.

For those of you unfamiliar with Hawkins, you're not alone. During his career, the management of both bantamweight and featherweight world champs, made certain to keep their stars unfamiliar with Hawkins, as well.

There was nothing to gain in a fight with Dwight Hawkins but a beating, one that takes a big toll on a body immediatly. At 5'3", Hawkins was a natural bantam who was forced to "blow up" to featherweight in order to get fights.

He turned pro at 15 (fake birth certificate), in L.A. under the management of Johnny Flores & Hal Benson. Over the years "The Hawk" had a number of managers, but in the beginning he was with Flores, and in the end he was with Flores.

At 17, with a dozen fights under his belt, he was matched with a dynamic #1 bantam contender who was ready to challenge Alphonse Halimi for the world crown. With only three losses, in nearly 50 fights, Jose Beccera was to become one of the greatest bantamweights of his era, a Mexican legend. But at age 23, next in line for a title shot, he decided to take a tune up match on the undercard of champion Halimi's title defense against his countryman, Raul "Raton" Macias.

To build enthusiasm for a future title bout for Beccera, they wanted to make sure his L.A. appearance was successful. They chose a kid that was too tough for those with only a dozen pro fights, such as himself, and too tough for anybody in Southern Cal, Dwight Hawkins. They didn't know that Hawkins was barely 17, a senior at L.A.'s Manuel Arts High School.

In one of the biggest upsets of the year in world class bantamweight boxing, Dwight Hawkins flattened Beccera. Now this is where any chance of a fairy tale ending for Hawkins went up in smoke, forever. A star was born, and that was Beccera, who would face Hawkins in a rematch, this time in his hometown of Guadalajara. At home, beccera had an edge.

Beccera was a great fighter, and Hawkins was a sick one, when he was stopped by Jose in the ninth round. Montezuma's Revenge whipped Hawkins worse than Beccera. Flores discovered the bottled water their "assistant" was bringing the fighter, was actually being drawn from a water tap.

When you talk of guys who had to fight the odds in Mexico, nobody had it any worse than Dwight Hawkins, however, more often than not, "The Hawk" came out on top. Of course, this was no guarantee your win would be validated by the officials.

The Hawk fought guys like Vicente Saldivar, Jose Medel, Jose Beccera, Kid Anahuac, Kid Irapuato, Fino Rosales, Zurdo Pina, Felix Cervantes and Aurileo Muniz. And he fought them in places such as Guadalajara, Mexico City, Monterrey, Guaymos, Tampico, Culiacan, Juarez, Tijuana, and Mexcali.

Dwight's last match in Mexico took place in Tampico, in 1967. I was training with Hawkins manager, Johnny Flores, and I was close with Hawkins. I heard what happened directly from Flores.

Hawkins battered Aurielo Muniz at will, and finally KOed him, in the last round. As the fighter lay unconcious on the deck, the ref finishes the count, and declares the fight over. Johnny Flores climbs thru the ropes with Hawkins robe, and there appears to be some discussion going on at ringside. A moment later, the ring announcer grabs the mike and declares Muniz the winner by disqualification. The reason, because Flores had entered the ring before the decision was announced. Now that is really reaching.

Flores was born in Mexico and appealed the Mexican commission. A week later, the decision was changed to a "draw". That was the best Flores could do. A KO win is a draw. So much for letting your fists decide the result.

More later on Hawkins.


-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

Dwight "The Hawk" Hawkins in Mexico . . .

There are thousands of stories relating to "bad decisions" rendered in Mexican boxing rings favoring hometown talent, and nobody knows this better than former featherweight contender, Dwight Hawkins.

For those of you unfamiliar with Hawkins, you're not alone. During his career, the management of both bantamweight and featherweight world champs, made certain to keep their stars unfamiliar with Hawkins, as well.

There was nothing to gain in a fight with Dwight Hawkins but a beating, one that takes a big toll on a body immediatly. At 5'3", Hawkins was a natural bantam who was forced to "blow up" to featherweight in order to get fights.

He turned pro at 15 (fake birth certificate), in L.A. under the management of Johnny Flores & Hal Benson. Over the years "The Hawk" had a number of managers, but in the beginning he was with Flores, and in the end he was with Flores.

At 17, with a dozen fights under his belt, he was matched with a dynamic #1 bantam contender who was ready to challenge Alphonse Halimi for the world crown. With only three losses, in nearly 50 fights, Jose Beccera was to become one of the greatest bantamweights of his era, a Mexican legend. But at age 23, next in line for a title shot, he decided to take a tune up match on the undercard of champion Halimi's title defense against his countryman, Raul "Raton" Macias.

To build enthusiasm for a future title bout for Beccera, they wanted to make sure his L.A. appearance was successful. They chose a kid that was too tough for those with only a dozen pro fights, such as himself, and too tough for anybody in Southern Cal, Dwight Hawkins. They didn't know that Hawkins was barely 17, a senior at L.A.'s Manuel Arts High School.

In one of the biggest upsets of the year in world class bantamweight boxing, Dwight Hawkins flattened Beccera. Now this is where any chance of a fairy tale ending for Hawkins went up in smoke, forever. A star was born, and that was Beccera, who would face Hawkins in a rematch, this time in his hometown of Guadalajara. At home, beccera had an edge.

Beccera was a great fighter, and Hawkins was a sick one, when he was stopped by Jose in the ninth round. Montezuma's Revenge whipped Hawkins worse than Beccera. Flores discovered the bottled water their "assistant" was bringing the fighter, was actually being drawn from a water tap.

When you talk of guys who had to fight the odds in Mexico, nobody had it any worse than Dwight Hawkins, however, more often than not, "The Hawk" came out on top. Of course, this was no guarantee your win would be validated by the officials.

The Hawk fought guys like Vicente Saldivar, Jose Medel, Jose Beccera, Kid Anahuac, Kid Irapuato, Fino Rosales, Zurdo Pina, Felix Cervantes and Aurileo Muniz. And he fought them in places such as Guadalajara, Mexico City, Monterrey, Guaymos, Tampico, Culiacan, Juarez, Tijuana, and Mexcali.

Dwight's last match in Mexico took place in Tampico, in 1967. I was training with Hawkins manager, Johnny Flores, and I was close with Hawkins. I heard what happened directly from Flores.

Hawkins battered Aurielo Muniz at will, and finally KOed him, in the last round. As the fighter lay unconcious on the deck, the ref finishes the count, and declares the fight over. Johnny Flores climbs thru the ropes with Hawkins robe, and there appears to be some discussion going on at ringside. A moment later, the ring announcer grabs the mike and declares Muniz the winner by disqualification. The reason, because Flores had entered the ring before the decision was announced. Now that is really reaching.

Flores was born in Mexico and appealed the Mexican commission. A week later, the decision was changed to a "draw". That was the best Flores could do. A KO win is a draw. So much for letting your fists decide the result.

More later on Hawkins.


-Rick Farris

Rick
That was a great story on Hawkins. I want to get back to a question I posted a while back. How did a fighter like L.C. Morgan,a black man from Mississippi,want to spend almost his entire career fighting Mexican fighters in Mexico? I've never seen anything close to that scenario in the boxing records.

[Expug]

Dwight "The Hawk" Hawkins in Mexico . . .

There are thousands of stories relating to "bad decisions" rendered in Mexican boxing rings favoring hometown talent, and nobody knows this better than former featherweight contender, Dwight Hawkins.

For those of you unfamiliar with Hawkins, you're not alone. During his career, the management of both bantamweight and featherweight world champs, made certain to keep their stars unfamiliar with Hawkins, as well.

There was nothing to gain in a fight with Dwight Hawkins but a beating, one that takes a big toll on a body immediatly. At 5'3", Hawkins was a natural bantam who was forced to "blow up" to featherweight in order to get fights.

He turned pro at 15 (fake birth certificate), in L.A. under the management of Johnny Flores & Hal Benson. Over the years "The Hawk" had a number of managers, but in the beginning he was with Flores, and in the end he was with Flores.

At 17, with a dozen fights under his belt, he was matched with a dynamic #1 bantam contender who was ready to challenge Alphonse Halimi for the world crown. With only three losses, in nearly 50 fights, Jose Beccera was to become one of the greatest bantamweights of his era, a Mexican legend. But at age 23, next in line for a title shot, he decided to take a tune up match on the undercard of champion Halimi's title defense against his countryman, Raul "Raton" Macias.

To build enthusiasm for a future title bout for Beccera, they wanted to make sure his L.A. appearance was successful. They chose a kid that was too tough for those with only a dozen pro fights, such as himself, and too tough for anybody in Southern Cal, Dwight Hawkins. They didn't know that Hawkins was barely 17, a senior at L.A.'s Manuel Arts High School.

In one of the biggest upsets of the year in world class bantamweight boxing, Dwight Hawkins flattened Beccera. Now this is where any chance of a fairy tale ending for Hawkins went up in smoke, forever. A star was born, and that was Beccera, who would face Hawkins in a rematch, this time in his hometown of Guadalajara. At home, beccera had an edge.

Beccera was a great fighter, and Hawkins was a sick one, when he was stopped by Jose in the ninth round. Montezuma's Revenge whipped Hawkins worse than Beccera. Flores discovered the bottled water their "assistant" was bringing the fighter, was actually being drawn from a water tap.

When you talk of guys who had to fight the odds in Mexico, nobody had it any worse than Dwight Hawkins, however, more often than not, "The Hawk" came out on top. Of course, this was no guarantee your win would be validated by the officials.

The Hawk fought guys like Vicente Saldivar, Jose Medel, Jose Beccera, Kid Anahuac, Kid Irapuato, Fino Rosales, Zurdo Pina, Felix Cervantes and Aurileo Muniz. And he fought them in places such as Guadalajara, Mexico City, Monterrey, Guaymos, Tampico, Culiacan, Juarez, Tijuana, and Mexcali.

Dwight's last match in Mexico took place in Tampico, in 1967. I was training with Hawkins manager, Johnny Flores, and I was close with Hawkins. I heard what happened directly from Flores.

Hawkins battered Aurielo Muniz at will, and finally KOed him, in the last round. As the fighter lay unconcious on the deck, the ref finishes the count, and declares the fight over. Johnny Flores climbs thru the ropes with Hawkins robe, and there appears to be some discussion going on at ringside. A moment later, the ring announcer grabs the mike and declares Muniz the winner by disqualification. The reason, because Flores had entered the ring before the decision was announced. Now that is really reaching.

Flores was born in Mexico and appealed the Mexican commission. A week later, the decision was changed to a "draw". That was the best Flores could do. A KO win is a draw. So much for letting your fists decide the result.

More later on Hawkins.


-Rick Farris

Great story.
Most people cant even fathom the ampunt of guts that young kid Hawkins must have had to take all those fights against that level of competition on the road, let alone in that kind of hostile enviorment.