Rocky Marciano vs. Ray Robinson - 1952

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 06 Apr 2008, 18:18

do you think if this fight happened in '52 for the heavyweight title that robinson would have given marciano fits? marciano-5'10", 185 lbs. robinson-5'11", 160 lbs. i would still pick rocky to win but robinson i think would cause a lot of trouble for him. robinson took a good shot and was the far better skilled fighter. your take.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 06 Apr 2008, 18:47

I love Ray Robinson...but I think of the shots Marciano landed on Moore, Charles, Walcott and Cockell...

Rocky would have caught up to him and hurt him bad, am sorry

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 06 Apr 2008, 23:35

bjermaine wrote:do you think if this fight happened in '52 for the heavyweight title that robinson would have given marciano fits? marciano-5'10", 185 lbs. robinson-5'11", 160 lbs. i would still pick rocky to win but robinson i think would cause a lot of trouble for him. robinson took a good shot and was the far better skilled fighter. your take.

Well, Robinson knocked out Joey Maxim, didn't he?

LOL

This is an ALL TIME winner for posts on "boxing" sites.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 08 Apr 2008, 04:35

if rocky landed anything its over

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 08 Apr 2008, 09:43

Robinson would've been beaten to a pulp.

jimglen · Post by **jimglen** » 08 Apr 2008, 10:56

" a good Bigman will always (should always), beat a good little man..." and in Robinson's case a great little man.

Marcianno stoppage, Full Stop and early.

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 08 Apr 2008, 11:50

Why stop there?

How about Ali Vs Jimmy Wilde

Archie Moore VS Fighting Harada

Sonny Liston Vs Pete Herman

kikibalt · Post by **kikibalt** » 08 Apr 2008, 12:18

enrique wrote:Why stop there?

How about Ali Vs Jimmy Wilde

Archie Moore VS Fighting Harada

Sonny Liston Vs Pete Herman

What you are missing here is that there was talks of a fight between Ray and Rocky, so I think its a good guestion, you might think its ridicules, as I did back then, so did Sugar Ray, when his manager told SRR, SR. told him you fight him.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 08 Apr 2008, 13:30

I recall reading in some old boxing magazines that there was some talk about Sugar Ray Robinson fighting Floyd Patterson, too.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 08 Apr 2008, 14:14

Now that I think about it, wasn't there some talk in 1975/76 about Carlos Monzon challenging Ali? Dumb talk, obviously, but I recall that the idea was floated by somebody with enough influence so that the idea was published in Ring or BI, if my memory serves.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 08 Apr 2008, 14:18

Monzon vs Foster would have been a great match.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 08 Apr 2008, 14:24

Harry Greb tried like hell to get a fight with Jack Dempsey, believe it or not, but it never came off. Another man who challenged Dempsey was Battling Siki, but he too was denied a fight.

I think a Greb-Dempsey fight would have lasted longer than a Siki-Dempsey fight myself, considering Greb was only stopped twice in a career of some 300+ fights.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 08 Apr 2008, 16:43

At the press conference announcing the Robinson-Maxim fight, George Gainsford (who WAS a heavyweight) said that after Robinson beat Maxim, Robinson was going to fight Marciano for the heavyweight title.

Robinson, who knew his limitations better than bjermain here does,

said "You mean HE'S going to fight Marciano," pointing at Gainsford.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 08 Apr 2008, 16:47

elmersalsa wrote:Monzon vs Foster would have been a great match.

Not for Monzon.

And Monzon was smart enough not to be interested.

Monzon's system of fighting was to use every last eighth of an inch of his height to his advantage.

He would have been looking up at Foster. Way up.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 08 Apr 2008, 16:50

enrique wrote:Why stop there?

How about Ali Vs Jimmy Wilde

Archie Moore VS Fighting Harada

Sonny Liston Vs Pete Herman

How about

Primo Carnera VS Tom Thumb

Jess Willard VS Pancho Villa

Jim Jeffries VS Jimmy Barry

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 08 Apr 2008, 19:47

I'm trying to decide if this is a case of bjermaine (who called Robinson overrated in the thread about overrated fighters) mocking people who don't consider Robinson overrated, or if bjermaine is overrating Ray much worse than many Robinson fans would.

Either way, Robinson himself, long after he had retired, when asked if he would have fought for the Heavyweight title said that he couldn't have, because he would never have made the weight. Keep in mind he didn't even bulk up to fight Maxim, he fought Maxim fighting as a Middleweight.

That said though, there was also apparently an idea that Robinson would fight Patterson for the title. He wouldn't have won that either, especially considering his age.

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 08 Apr 2008, 21:19

I understand that there was talk of such a match but a lot of talked up matches are total, absolute publicity and not really meant to happen. Remember the talk of Wilt Chamberlain- Ali? A promoter sometimes will stir up the nest to see his name in print.

Sugar Ray was a marvel but in the Maxim fight he proved he could not handle the weight difference. He dehidrated as a middleweight and any heavier he would not have been fluid in his movements or as quick.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:07

Well, the fights with Marciano and Patterson were suggested. Whatever the motivation for suggesting those fights, the fact that the suggestion was picked up by the national press says something about the greatness that was Sugar Ray Robinson.

I don't like "yeah, buts . . ."; yet, I will suggest that but for the heat (and, yes, I know, Maxim had to deal with the heat too), Robinson would have been a three division champion.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:23

granberry wrote:
bjermaine wrote:do you think if this fight happened in '52 for the heavyweight title that robinson would have given marciano fits? marciano-5'10", 185 lbs. robinson-5'11", 160 lbs. i would still pick rocky to win but robinson i think would cause a lot of trouble for him. robinson took a good shot and was the far better skilled fighter. your take.
Well, Robinson knocked out Joey Maxim, didn't he?

LOL

This is an ALL TIME winner for posts on "boxing" sites.

yes, i see my topic has passed the granberry sanity litmus test. if granberry thinks it's dumb, that means it should make sense to the rest of us. granberry writes his crap trying to negate any ali victory with excuses and conspiracies on every fight and now he is trying to actually use a fact to prove a point. yes, maxim beat robinson but wasn't robinson winning the fight? if this was doug jones beating ali and then jones had to quit because of the heat, we would never hear the end of it from our insightful friend.

granberry, i want you to say and repeat these words to yourself every night before you go to sleep...

...muhammad ali is my master
...muhammad ali is my master
...muhammad ali is my master

take care my crazy friend.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:24

I recall the Patterson vs Robinson fight was suggested early in patterson's reign. At that stage in the game especially I do not like the idea of Robinson's odds.

Wilt the Stilt Chamberlain :) what a glorious fight that would have been :P

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:31

I Feel Fine wrote:I'm trying to decide if this is a case of bjermaine (who called Robinson overrated in the thread about overrated fighters) mocking people who don't consider Robinson overrated, or if bjermaine is overrating Ray much worse than many Robinson fans would.

Either way, Robinson himself, long after he had retired, when asked if he would have fought for the Heavyweight title said that he couldn't have, because he would never have made the weight. Keep in mind he didn't even bulk up to fight Maxim, he fought Maxim fighting as a Middleweight.

That said though, there was also apparently an idea that Robinson would fight Patterson for the title. He wouldn't have won that either, especially considering his age.

first off, i don't know how i mocked people who didn't think robinson was overrated. my point is that the whole invincibility of robinson that's reported by most members of the media is overdone. if you look, i wrote that i still have him in my top 5 lb 4 lb ever. robinson was still great. i wouldn't pick sugar ray to win either fight but for anyone to write that he would have had no chance at all against patterson or marciano is not true imo.

bjermaine · Post by **bjermaine** » 08 Apr 2008, 22:36

granberry wrote:
enrique wrote:Why stop there?

How about Ali Vs Jimmy Wilde

Archie Moore VS Fighting Harada

Sonny Liston Vs Pete Herman
How about

Primo Carnera VS Tom Thumb

Jess Willard VS Pancho Villa

Jim Jeffries VS Jimmy Barry

what about common sense vs. granberry? another mismatch.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 09 Apr 2008, 01:39

i wouldn't pick sugar ray to win either fight but for anyone to write that he would have had no chance at all against patterson or marciano is not true imo.

He would have had a chance, yes, but it would have been slim or none. Robinson always said LaMotta was his toughest opponent, now just imagine LaMotta being about 20 pounds heavier, even tougher, better conditioned and hitting much, much harder...then that would be Marciano, and around 1952, if one didn't take the time to really look right, by this time Robinson had just reached his 'peak' as the year before he done stopped LaMotta in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre...there never was a better Ray Robinson as a middleweight after that night, though he would have many, many great fights after that.

Marciano had just done beaten Walcott twice, and had yet to face Charles and Cockell and the ageless wonder in Archie Moore...the only comparison I could ever make, is a Robinson-Marciano bout would have been similar to the Moore bout, because Archie was a former middleweight [so was Charles but for all intents and purposes Moore still had it as a fighter, while Charles rapidly declined after losing the title]...only difference is, I see Robinson hitting the canvas more often and the fight being over in 6 rounds.

He schooled Joey Maxim, sure, and could have been the 175 pound champ, but let's face it, nobody hit harder than Marciano until the coming of Liston and later Foreman, and it can be argued that The Rock was on par with them as well.

Marciano's non-stop punching, the work rate he had, the conditioning and the power...I just dont see Ray being able to take that kind of pressure or punishment for too long, even if he was at his peak.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 09 Apr 2008, 02:01

Robinson may have "schooled " Maxim, but he could not beat him. Rocky would have been way too big and strong for Ray.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 09 Apr 2008, 03:05

He could not beat him? He was two rounds away. On a different night he becomes three division champion.

As for Ray's chances against Rocky... Charles was on his way down but he still had something left and he couldn't beat Rocky. Ray's not gonna do it. And he was coming off his series with Basilio when the proposal to fight Patterson came up. I think that speaks for itself.

As for bj... well, yes, you did mock people who didn't think Robinson was overrated. But the point I made was that you've made a 180 on that, because in this thread you seem to be overrating Robinson more than most of Robinson's fans would. You've made such a reverse that I almost thought this thread was meant to mock people who rank Robinson highly, but it seems you are serious, which makes the thread that much stranger.

Rocky Marciano vs. Ray Robinson - 1952

Rocky Marciano vs. Ray Robinson - 1952

Re: Rocky Marciano vs. Ray Robinson - 1952

Re: Rocky Marciano vs. Ray Robinson - 1952