De La Hoya-Hopkins getting closer...

Dave1armedTua · Post by **Dave1armedTua** » 19 Feb 2004, 18:12

Who else would he call out though? He has clobbered most people his own weight, and 99% of boxers aren't willing to lose weight to fight someone in a lower division because it is seen as taking a step backward in their career.

That pretty much limits the group of people he can call out.

Besides, just because the guys were fighting in a lower division than him doesn't make them easy prey. Look what pacman did.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Feb 2004, 06:25

Twinkle Toes wrote:
mickeybeard wrote:
I'd point out that Hopkins has spent a fair amount of his time calling out guys at lower weights to him.
I have also noticed this, and am a little surprised it isn't picked up on more than it has been. I'm obviously missing something with Hopkins, because he doesn't impress me like he has impressed some fight fans.

Yes, but he has also fought all other contenders and champions in his own division and has also fought men who went on to bigger divisions like Jones Echols and Johnson.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 20 Feb 2004, 06:46

knockout artist wrote:
Twinkle Toes wrote:
mickeybeard wrote:
I'd point out that Hopkins has spent a fair amount of his time calling out guys at lower weights to him.
I have also noticed this, and am a little surprised it isn't picked up on more than it has been. I'm obviously missing something with Hopkins, because he doesn't impress me like he has impressed some fight fans.
Yes, but he has also fought all other contenders and champions in his own division and has also fought men who went on to bigger divisions like Jones Echols and Johnson.

I was really just pointing out that Hopkins tells the bigger guys to come down towards him, but yet basically accuses the smaller guys of cowardice (in his Sky interview before the Joppy fight he talked about all the fighters 'eating like models so they don't have to come up and face me'). I realise he's cleaned out middleweight. Also, he's not a big middle, so moving up isn't the best idea for him. Basically, the thread seemed to contain quite a few comments on other fighters trying to call out smaller fighters and wanting everything on their terms, and nobody had pointed out the Hopkins does the exact same thing! I'm not saying there's anything particularly wrong with it (other than it costs the fans some mega-fights). If I were a pro I'd insist on only fighting flyweights for £1m+.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 20 Feb 2004, 06:51

Hate to blow my own trumpet (actually no I don't) but I've predicted this fight for 3/4 years.

I've felt all along that the likes of DLH/Trinidad/Vargas/Mosely would all end up at Middleweight and re-create a kind of 80's Middleweight scenario when Leonard, Hearns and Duran converged upon the Middleweight division to have a pop at the incumbent champion, Hagler. Very similar scenario in my book.

I do not see Hopkins moving up for Jones, what is the point? He can earn an absolute bomb taking on Welterweights and Junior-Middleweights and assuming he repels De La Hoya's challenge they will all be stepping up to the plate.

I also think Oscar might push him a bit closer than we think....

J · Post by J » 20 Feb 2004, 07:42

nothing wrong with blowin your own trumpet mate, but doc told me I would have to have two ribs removed hahaah just messing.
Agree with ya mate reckon Oscar will put up a good fight but based on BH's recent perfomances I dont think any of them could live with him at middle. Nice comparison of hagler at al though.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Feb 2004, 07:59

Hopkins can't be criticised too much for calling out the junior middleweights. There's 6 pounds difference between himself and them (and didn't Hopkins come in at 157 for Hakkar anyway? Amazing really) but it's 8 pounds extra to go to supermiddle where there's only ONE fight up there against Calzaghe who will only fight in Wales, meaning the Executioner would be putting his whole reputation in the hands of 3 judges that would be deafened by the crowd when Calzaghe even looked like throwing a punch.

Any step up beyond that just would not be right. What other fighter trains as hard year-round as Hopkins? Why should he have to bulk up or give away huge amounts of weight just to get a big fight? Middleweight is his division. He owns it. He's worked hard to unify the title and keep it unified. If the light-middles want to get a piece of that they have to go through him. That's the way it should be.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Feb 2004, 08:17

Right now, I don't think there is anyone below light heavyweight I would put my money on to beat Hopkins, unless of course we're talking about a hometown decision for the likes of Calzaghe or Ottke.

Hopkins is probably the best conditioned middleweight ever, I cannot think of any other fighter who could come in at almost 40 at 3 lbs below the division limit.

If DLH did pull it off, it would be a pretty spectacular feat, seeing as he started life as a Super Featherweight. Duran was a hell of a fighter, and he gave a good account of himself against Hagler, who was at about the same level as Nard is now, but he couldn't win it.

I just don't see Nard allowing DLH to box out of his comfort zone however, he seems to have an ability to stick to his opponent like a fridge magnet, and once he gets inside, you know it's Nard who has the advantages. How will Oscar cope with X's rough edges on the inside, where his greater handspeed won't be able to be exploited, my guess is not very well.

The thing is for once DLH will be in with a fighter more experienced, as smart or smarter, stronger, bigger and definetly meaner than he is.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 20 Feb 2004, 09:43

My money will/would certainly be on Hopkins, I just fancy De La Hoya to prove himself as the modern legend he is and over-perform.

Remember people could see no way whatsoever that Leonard could beat Hagler, the Ali could beat Foreman and so on....

As well as the reasons referenced by James I also feel Oscar's inablity to adapt may harm his chances, Hopkins is sooo flexible whereas DLH seems to come with a very good Plan A but as his opponent figures out how to comabt it he just gets on his bike or goes in to a bit of a shell.

Which is actually funny because I've DLH interviewed in the build up to fight claiming he has several gameplans and has accounted for every eventuality.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:09

Oscar found the 12 rounds against Mosley pretty tough going in september, he would almost certainly find himself tiring even quicker against Hopkins. It wouldn't surprise me to see Oscar go out on a stoppage loss, which would be a sad sight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:22

The difference was that Leonard was assumed to be dissipated going into the Hagler fight, when in fact he had never really been out of training and maintained excellent shape during his 'retirement.'

Oscar, even at his very best I don't think is a match for Hopkins, were they both natural middleweights I would favour DLH possibly, though it would be a bloody close run thing.

However, DLH doesn't look that strong at light middleweight, let alone middleweight.

Leonard started his career at welterweight, and so it was never going to be such a big leap, and he was always the better fighter overall than Hagler, more talented, just as good technically, great chin, better handspeed and footspeed, all that counted against him was size and inactivity.

I don't think DLH is anywhere near as good technically as Leonard or Bernard, but he has excellent natural gifts, but I think his lack of strength at the weight, and the fact that if he cannot evade Hopkins he simply cannot match him in the trenches, and doesn't I think have enough power to stop Hopkins from getting inside.

I can see DLH starting well, and boxing from angles to take an early lead, but around round 4-6 Hopkins will start cutting him off, and once that happens, the body shots and inside roughing up will start, and DLH will eventually slow down enough to get tagged.

I think DLH's chin is good enough to carry him through the fight, but he could get badly busted up.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The difference was that Leonard was assumed to be dissipated going into the Hagler fight, when in fact he had never really been out of training and maintained excellent shape during his 'retirement.'

Oscar, even at his very best I don't think is a match for Hopkins, were they both natural middleweights I would favour DLH possibly, though it would be a bloody close run thing.

However, DLH doesn't look that strong at light middleweight, let alone middleweight.

Leonard started his career at welterweight, and so it was never going to be such a big leap, and he was always the better fighter overall than Hagler, more talented, just as good technically, great chin, better handspeed and footspeed, all that counted against him was size and inactivity.

I don't think DLH is anywhere near as good technically as Leonard or Bernard, but he has excellent natural gifts, but I think his lack of strength at the weight, and the fact that if he cannot evade Hopkins he simply cannot match him in the trenches, and doesn't I think have enough power to stop Hopkins from getting inside.

I can see DLH starting well, and boxing from angles to take an early lead, but around round 4-6 Hopkins will start cutting him off, and once that happens, the body shots and inside roughing up will start, and DLH will eventually slow down enough to get tagged.

I think DLH's chin is good enough to carry him through the fight, but he could get badly busted up.

James, I cant beleive you would favour DLH over Hopkins if both were natrual 160's.

Hopkins is an all time great. I think he's still underrated at the moment.

Its possible that Hopkins IMO is the greatest 160 of all time, wheras DLH has jumped through the weights, and is great but nor an all timer (IMO).

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:39

James, regarding Leonard I'm just talking about at the time. You can come out with all the reasoning you like as to why beating Hagler wasn't such a surprise e.t.c, at the time Leonard was not perceived to have a cat in hells chance.

In fact I would say the odds will be closer for De La Hoya - Hoppo than they were for Leonard - Hagler.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:45

knockout artist wrote:James, I cant beleive you would favour DLH over Hopkins if both were natrual 160's.

For me De La Hoya's peak was around the time of the first Chavez fight. He was nothing short of devastating that night. Offensively/defensively brilliant. P4P better than Hopkins? I really wouldn't like to say. I'm sure you'd get as many yays as nays if you asked around.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 20 Feb 2004, 10:59

Goz wrote:James, regarding Leonard I'm just talking about at the time. You can come out with all the reasoning you like as to why beating Hagler wasn't such a surprise e.t.c, at the time Leonard was not perceived to have a cat in hells chance.

In fact I would say the odds will be closer for De La Hoya - Hoppo than they were for Leonard - Hagler.

Yes, as i remember many respected people were fearing for Leonards life. I think DLH will get a beating, but in a long fight. If the fight happens and anyone wants to back DLH, i'll give them 4-1.

J · Post by J » 24 Feb 2004, 06:25

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing ... id=1742533

still waiting on BH's signing but it all looks like its on.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 24 Feb 2004, 07:19

Stylistically, if they were both middleweights, Oscar's style would be difficult for Bernard, as Oscar is very smart at nicking rounds.

However, as I said in my post, Bernard is technically better, he's more adept as an all around fighter, but that is not what matters.

They reckon the odds for the fight will only be 2-1 Hopkins, I reckon Hagler must have been 5-1 for his fight with Leonard.

J · Post by J » 24 Feb 2004, 07:56

i agree Oscar has Enough for most of the middles out there but Hopkins is different gravy, Hopkins late ko. Im looking forward to it when it (eventually) arrives.

A.Will · Post by **A.Will** » 24 Feb 2004, 12:28

Oscar is puond for pound the better fighter IMO, but Hopkins would have too much at 160
Hopkins by a wide descision.

J · Post by J » 24 Feb 2004, 12:45

really cos I got BH top of the pile at present, still so subjective aint it. 8)

Loftgroov · Post by **Loftgroov** » 24 Feb 2004, 12:48

Draw a line through Felix Trinidad.

Look at Felix vs Oscar, and then Felix against 'Nard.....

Hopkins UD

The_Power · Post by **The_Power** » 24 Feb 2004, 14:56

Dlh must have left his brain on the golf course.

Bernard Hopkins is the best middleweight since Marvin Hagler, and to be honest, apart from money, i can see no advantage to the pro-longed beating that Bernard is going to give him.

Sheer Crazyness.