Things that can go wrong for Clinton

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2008, 15:00

A few factors that could lead to a miserable night for British fans/writers who admire Woods' downt to earth personality and gritty approach:

1) Fighting away from home. Different crowd, different atmosphere. Will take him at least a round or two to warm to this.

2) Away ref. Woods is good at grinding ppl down. Look at the state of Johnson (3rd bout) and Gonzalez over the final 3 rds of their IBF title fights. But he will be called up by the away ref for his work up close, which includes an educated use of the shoulder, wearing ppl out in clinches and hitting just as the fighters come out of the breaks with a right hand. Has to do this to grind down Tarver, but may not be allowed to.

3) Gary Shaw. Has had numerous of his Yanks lose to Brits in Britain. Hoye, vs Woods. Harris, vs Witter. (don't fvck with Yorkshire, Gary). Most humiliatingly, Lacy, v Calzaghe. Look when a Brit fought on a Shaw show in FL - Robin Reid fell apart vs Lacy. Little things were done before the fight to annoy Reid, who lost his cool and got dropped many times. Stakes are up and Gary - like any promoter - will make sure he has every advantage to subtly change the fight.

4) Tarver's southpaw stance. Woods is a composed guy who starts slow as he implements 12 round plans. The different crowd/atmosphere/climate will probably take him a couple of rds to get used to. Tarver's long arms and lefty stance will poss take another 2-3 rds to come to grips with. Clint could be behind with everything against him, before he/if he warms to the fight.

5) Home judges - how often do away fighters get the benefit of the doubt in a close one, anywhere?

This is what I feel Clinton is fighting and I just hope he won't be playing catchup. He can do it - much stronger, braver bloke IMO - but it may be by the skin of his teeth.

Hagler2002 · Post by **Hagler2002** » 12 Apr 2008, 15:03

Did that disc come through ok?

BAMBI · Post by **BAMBI** » 12 Apr 2008, 15:04

Morph (from heartbeat) will beat him regardless..

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2008, 15:05

Cheers, got the Macklin card, thanks for that!

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:02

Ouch. Tarver wound up the star of the night! Never thought I'd see that happen. Clinton can beat strong guys but not movers. He looked the same man who lost to Jones in 2002 with only slight improvements.

STP · Post by **STP** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:08

No amateur pedigree. No natural gifts. What did you expect?

Even if you didn't see him shit himself on Soccer Night on ITV Yorkshire when watching the press conference over...

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:10

Never got to grips with the away setting or the southpaw stance.

I suppose, it's good in a brutal way to see all our fighters tested. That way, we know exactly what they are capable of. About time the Gerries showed some willingness, given that they secure massive amateur talents to the pro game.

How about step down to domestic level, wait out the Francis-Oakey winner? Woods has had a good career - 3 top 10 world class victims Johnson, Hoye, Gonzalez - but what a terrible end to his title reign.

If he had beaten Tarver it wouldn't have been regarded as a great win...

STP · Post by **STP** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:14

I personally think Francis is just too polished for Woods if he lets the right hand go without his shoulder going, and yes I'd have said exactly the same before tonight.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:21

AB Woods has always been a solid but limited fighter.

Tonight just revealed that. He was made for measure for the Tarver that turned up tonight. Standing with a high guard in front of a sideon southpaw without letting his hands go and offering little in the way of lateral attack or close pressure was always going to expose him.

Tarver wasn't fantastic either - he just had someone made for measure for him tonight.

I hate knocking any fighter and feel that Woods has made the best he could have of his career. And good luck to him for that.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Apr 2008, 00:28

STP wrote:I personally think Francis is just too polished for Woods if he lets the right hand go without his shoulder going, and yes I'd have said exactly the same before tonight.

Always thought Deano was a level above Clinton (as I posted on one of those Calzaghe threads). Deano would have gone way further than Woods if not for the injury. He has been in with cruiserweights recently so you never know, the Woods strength may not be such an issue. Dean's left is still a great punch. I was hoping Woods would win tonight and face Francis but that one is fvcked.

Francis shows just how good he is still having something to contribute to Uk boxing at this late stage, and after everything that happened.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 13 Apr 2008, 04:55

A good indication of how a Cazaghe fight would have turned out - Clinton didn't seem at the races, but he maybe has hit the end of the road.

He should have beaten Tarver in my opinion, because Tarver was never anything special.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 13 Apr 2008, 05:20

Autobarn wrote:Ouch. Tarver wound up the star of the night! Never thought I'd see that happen. Clinton can beat strong guys but not movers. He looked the same man who lost to Jones in 2002 with only slight improvements.

There has been very little improvement in Woods since the Jones fight. Its just that he fought guys who were way below the level that Jones was.

Most of the talk of his improvement and pedigree was paper talk.

Clinton seems a nice bloke and took defeat in a classy manner. But he is barely world class. Certainly I have never rated him as such. Just think some so called expert boxing writers were saying that if woods beat Tarver, he would be rated as Britains greatest ever light heavy.

Woods would have been a sparring partner for John Conteh and thats it.

I doubt he would have beaten Dennis Andries.

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 13 Apr 2008, 05:45

I think you guys are being tough on Clinton. To be sure, he's not world class in the same kind of way of some of the cream of British boxing like Hamed, Calzaghe or Hatton, where from the early part of their career the talent seemed to ooze through the ropes and it was clear they'd be able to at least hang in the higher echelons of the sport.

But let's get behind Clinton. He is one of the good guys, and has worked hard at his sport and got his -- deserved, I should emphasize -- rewards.

He had 3 close fights with Glen Johnson, who has been holding his own at the top level since the days of the London Prize Ring Rules, he hammered Rico Hoye, a highly touted American, and comfortably handled a series of credible top-10 type opponents during his reign as IBF champ. Just how many British boxers have won an IBF, WBC or WBA title in the last 10 years? Clinton is one of a select band.

If Clinton had one failing, perhaps it was that he was too nice -- humble and down to earth when the top guys, even the nice ones, seem to have an unshakable inner confidence bordering on arrogance. His post fight comments that, "I fought the best light heavyweight in the world, I'm just a skinny kid from Sheffield. I never dreamed of nights like this. I'm happy with my career," would seem to suggest as much.

Judged by world class standards, perhaps Clinton wasn't the best and was never going to be. But judged by standards of all pro boxers, or even the successful domestic ones, Woods has had a brilliant run and managed to stay a nice guy through it. He's just come off what looks to be a career ending loss, let's be happy for his success rather than taking the opportunity to tell everyone that we never thought he was any good.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:19

Shame Clinton lost. No shame there, is it worth him continuing or should he retire? I sure he got beat Erdei

realboy · Post by **realboy** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:38

Woods was a tad over-rated by plenty and Tarver written off too early. Come on, Tarver was a former champ with amateur pedigree, he knocked out Roy Jones. Woods has plenty of heart and guts, a good fighter, but not quite enough class to deal with a motivated Tarver fighting at home. Woods got a draw with Glen Johnson in the first fight he didn't deserve.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:44

Tarver did fight well.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:49

That was embarrassing.

People talk about Hatton coming with no plan for Mayweather but at least he had a go and managed to chin Mayweather a few times.

Clinton just walked forward in a straight line and got punched. From the outset I couldn't understand why he wasn't letting shots go, it was like he was knackered from the off.

I like Clinton a lot but he has dramtically over-acheived. Hope he got paid well last night.

Tarver was impressive but Woods did absolutely fornicate all.

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 13 Apr 2008, 06:55

i thought tarver would win.

thought woods would have made it tougher than that though.

he's always struggled with the quick stylists.

he prefers boxing come forward guys who he can counter.

woods was right in what he said at the end though.

he's done himself proud in his career for his talent.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Apr 2008, 07:38

Still don't think Tarver is all that. He had a nice workrate, but his punch technique isn't great... he doesn't seem to drive with his punches.

Woods didn't turn up IMO... whether the death of Stuart Brookes affected him... he just looked lethargic.

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:01

Psychologically beaten before he'd even started. Packed an inferiority complex in his travel bag. All that 'skinny kid from Sheffield stuff' afterwards ... the skinny 'kid' in that ring was nearly 40 and from Florida. Richard Poxon saw what was happening in the corner, constantly asking Clinton to believe in himself, but sadly he couldn't, he was totally overawed. A shame. Clinton always comes across as such a nice fella but I don't know where he goes from here. Tarver conned his way through that fight in the same way that Hopkins did against Tarver. Hopkins gave Tarver a blueprint on how to fight at 40 that night.

leforge · Post by **leforge** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:20

He was not at the races at all last night, pehaps he was thinking too much about a fight with Joe.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:20

Glyn Leach wrote:Psychologically beaten before he'd even started. Packed an inferiority complex in his travel bag. All that 'skinny kid from Sheffield stuff' afterwards ... the skinny 'kid' in that ring was nearly 40 and from Florida. Richard Poxon saw what was happening in the corner, constantly asking Clinton to believe in himself, but sadly he couldn't, he was totally overawed. A shame. Clinton always comes across as such a nice fella but I don't know where he goes from here. Tarver conned his way through that fight in the same way that Hopkins did against Tarver. Hopkins gave Tarver a blueprint on how to fight at 40 that night.

Sums it up perfectly.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:20

What a load of tosh on this thread, Clinton came to win, gave it his all and came up against a faster, rangier, better schooled boxer. He didn't have the tools to get to Tarver, he needed head movement, a trebble jabb, speed at closing the gap, timing, a fast strainht right. He just didn't have the tools to get the job done, if you haven't learnt any of those tricks in 20 years you won't learn them in a 12 week training camp

Excellent performance by Tarver too, whos beat Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods, Harding and Griffin. Off lasts nights performance I see Tarvers style giving Calazage a few problems.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:40

KO Artist wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Ouch. Tarver wound up the star of the night! Never thought I'd see that happen. Clinton can beat strong guys but not movers. He looked the same man who lost to Jones in 2002 with only slight improvements.
There has been very little improvement in Woods since the Jones fight. Its just that he fought guys who were way below the level that Jones was.

Most of the talk of his improvement and pedigree was paper talk.

Clinton seems a nice bloke and took defeat in a classy manner. But he is barely world class. Certainly I have never rated him as such. Just think some so called expert boxing writers were saying that if woods beat Tarver, he would be rated as Britains greatest ever light heavy.

Woods would have been a sparring partner for John Conteh and thats it.

I doubt he would have beaten Dennis Andries.

that was Brendan Ingle who said that about Conteh. Being on the Sheffield he's probably bound to be a bit biased for Woods. I think Calzaghe can make a case for himself as one of the best UK light heavies, if he beats Hopkins and another top name.

I thought Woods improved in the 3rd Johnson, in the way he stood up nd fought Johnson as opposed to being almost resigned to defeat with the passive 1st two showings. He did seem resigned to defeat vs Tarver, from early on.

He needed to take a leaf out of Johnson's book in taking it to Dawson - the young southpaw - but he let Tarver escape and counter too much.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 13 Apr 2008, 08:44

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:What a load of tosh on this thread, Clinton came to win, gave it his all and came up against a faster, rangier, better schooled boxer. He didn't have the tools to get to Tarver, he needed head movement, a trebble jabb, speed at closing the gap, timing, a fast strainht right. He just didn't have the tools to get the job done, if you haven't learnt any of those tricks in 20 years you won't learn them in a 12 week training camp

Excellent performance by Tarver too, whos beat Roy Jones, Glen Johnson, Clinton Woods, Harding and Griffin. Off lasts nights performance I see Tarvers style giving Calazage a few problems.

Er, not so sure about that. You're not trying to overinflate Tarver's performance so you can make a case for him going into the Hall of Fame, are you?

This was negative stuff from Woods.