Things that can go wrong for Clinton

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 13 Apr 2008, 13:40

People are being criticial because of THE WAY he lost, not just because he lost. I think what's bothering a few people, myself included, on here is that he didn't appear that bothered about winning, he just seemed pleased to be there, for some unknown reason, as if getting to fight Tarver in Florida was a victory in itself.

And following a bloke around for 12 rounds does not constitute a major effort IMO. At least Woods went for it against Jones. It's not as though Tarver made any real attempt to get Clinton out of there until the final moments.

On recent form, Woods could - and to my mind should - have won that fight. But for some reason he wouldn't let himself. Had the fight been in Sheffield, I think he would have beaten Tarver but Clinton just didn't believe he belonged on the big stage in America and we saw the results.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 13 Apr 2008, 13:44

harrygreb wrote: in my view he would have beaten roy jones if he'd believed in himself. .

lol

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 13 Apr 2008, 13:45

Glen Johnson's trainer seemed to sum it up before the fight when questioning how Clinton would fight without the big home support. Seemed very clueless in there and Tarver looked leagues above him which I don't believe he is.

I agree with Glyn as well, Woods was better the night he fought Jones, really going for it. Could hardly see Clinton beckoning Tarver in last night at any point. From Tarver's point of view, if he had started planting his feet sooner than the 12th I think he could have gotten him out of there. Real shame for Woods, Tarver should have been the stepping stone to the big fight with Calzaghe.

Also I wouldn't say Johnson is better than Tarver, the 2nd fight proved that

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 13 Apr 2008, 13:50

Here's a question: If Johnson and not Woods had been in with Tarver last night, who would have won? In all honesty, I'd pick Johnson.

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 13 Apr 2008, 13:56

Pretty impossible to tell, Woods never put the sort of pressure on that Johnson would have but Tarver beat Johnson fighting in quite a similar way.

I don't think either fighter is as good as they were

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 13 Apr 2008, 14:00

You're probably right Lenny - I'd just like to have seen Clinton fight with some of Johnson's desire last night and I'm really disappointed he didn't.

Floyd · Post by **Floyd** » 13 Apr 2008, 14:55

Clinton seemed more in awe of Tarver then he did against Jones. Its just frustrating to see I guy lose like that. He went out on his shield against Jones.

Also does anyone else think Chad Dawson is a knockout waiting to happen?

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 13 Apr 2008, 15:08

Chad showed some cojones last night but it's become clear that he's not the fighter some have claimed him to be.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 13 Apr 2008, 16:04

Autobarn wrote:Never got to grips with the away setting or the southpaw stance.

I

Also, couldnt be arsed

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 13 Apr 2008, 16:12

Dawson - Johnson showed that old time boxing skills, with hands held high taking a majority of punches on arms and gloves whilst slipping and manouvring into position to throw shots that can turn fights, still has its place in the game.

Dawson isn't the second coming but he has talent. I expect that his skills and youth would beat an aging Tarver handily. But that doesn't mean a great deal in terms of the game and its dimininshing lack of depth at this weight.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 13 Apr 2008, 17:55

Glyn Leach wrote:Psychologically beaten before he'd even started. Packed an inferiority complex in his travel bag. All that 'skinny kid from Sheffield stuff' afterwards ... the skinny 'kid' in that ring was nearly 40 and from Florida. Richard Poxon saw what was happening in the corner, constantly asking Clinton to believe in himself, but sadly he couldn't, he was totally overawed. A shame. Clinton always comes across as such a nice fella but I don't know where he goes from here. Tarver conned his way through that fight in the same way that Hopkins did against Tarver. Hopkins gave Tarver a blueprint on how to fight at 40 that night.

Have to agree. Raised an eyebrow when I heard that 'skinny kid from sheffield' shite. He was the reigning IBF WORLD CHAMPION for christ's sake.

After the third round, it was all over, he just let Tarver dictate the terms of engagement. He kept letting Tarver just turn to his left and present his shoulder and walk off. He should have battered him to the arms, shoulders, and guts.

Woods never once threw the uppercut inside, he just let Tarver hold on, and worse still, stood there with his guard up getting hit with massive uppercuts and left hooks.

At the end of the sixth, Woods looked a beaten man, and very distressed, he had accepted defeat.

A shame, but I guess Clinton's found his level. A decent peripheral champ, but nothing more.

Tarver looked very good I thought, but then Clinton stood there for target practice. Still see him beating Dawson though, who was made to look pretty average by Johnson. Had Johnson been a couple of years younger, he would have sparked Dawson who was out on his feet.

rhino222 · Post by **rhino222** » 13 Apr 2008, 18:45

im sad for clinton, but tarver looked awful last night too, his chin was up in the air, and clinton never nailed it once..

i had clinton winning the 2nd..and that was it.

it was a dour show from a champion, maybe he should call it a day, he did very very well considering his skills...

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 14 Apr 2008, 03:15

Woods just didn't work him out. All Tarver did was move to his left and then throw the same four punch combination which always finished with an uppercut. Woods footwork was poor too.

I felt for him but the best success he had was when he played possom and encouraged Tarver to come in.

Tarver's punches were often slow, laborious slaps.

Poxon tried his best but I didn't hear one second of technical advice, just emotive stuff.

Tarver crosses his feet, stick his chin up and doesn't have much hand speed or zing to his punches either, very rare a single shot got through. 5 maybe six times, it was the slow combos that did the point scoring and opend Clinton up.

Clinton is a brave kid. Gutsy, and he has improved, Tarver was simply all wrong for him, too awkward.

Woods looks good chopping down big lumps or come forward fighters.

Thats Starie, Jones and Tarver he's lost to. All movers. Although I only tentively include Tarver as he's so slow.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 14 Apr 2008, 04:07

Glyn Leach wrote:Apparently after 10 rounds Pat Sheehan of The Sun had Woods one round ahead - I kid you not

Yeah but Pat really knows his boxing

Woods was dreadful, and Tarver above average.

Tarver looked good because he had little to beat.

This is what happens when a 10 round international standard fighter moves up to world class. Even if its a poor world class.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 14 Apr 2008, 04:08

It's easy enough for me to say, sitting the other side of the ropes but it seemed Clinton was making a couple of basic errors in the ring. Firstly, whenever he had Tarver pinned on the ropes then that was his chance to work the body and throw shots anyway he could to remove Tarver from the comfort zone.

He backed Tarver on to the ropes, or realistically Tarver moved himself there, but Woods let him slip away too easily. He should have been roughing him up and letting shots fly, landing anywhere to make an impression.

Secondly, he moved into range, cupped his hands around face and leaned in without throwing. This is suicide! Allowing Tarver to step off to the side and land, hard, scoring uppercuts and flashy shots to clearly bag the rounds. When you are in range, either work or get the hell out! A man of Clinton's experience would know this.

Lacklustre performance and basically a retirement visit to the states. Woods will take a homer in Sheffield against a reasonable operator and then bow out IMO.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 14 Apr 2008, 04:10

Glyn Leach wrote:Apparently after 10 rounds Pat Sheehan of The Sun had Woods one round ahead - I kid you not

This is the most remarkable thing i have heard in a good long while.

Even Woodhall was struggling to give Clinton anything except a few "sympathy rounds" here and there.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 14 Apr 2008, 05:25

I hope Johnson gets one more big fight. Maybe the Calzaghe-Hopkins winner or Erdei. Erdei has to get up off his pudgy arse and show ppl whether he can beat a top light heavy. Everyone else will have done this in a one-week period between last Sat (Woods-Tarver, Johnson-Dawson) & next Sat (Calzaghe-Hopkins). Erdei is more than capable. Surely fighting a current champ or an ex champ is economically a sound move when you're 33 and in your 8th or 9th defence.

Johnson, unlike Woods, showed he knows how to prevent a southpaw moving to his left. OK there were rds when Dawson got on his bike and Glen couldn't get set. But whenever Dawson wanted to land hard shots, he had to step in. Dawon leaves himself so open. On the "Can Johnson Do It?" thread I raised the issue that Dawson is open to counters when he squares his shoulders to throw a straight left. However, he was open to EVERYTHING last weekend.

This Johnson could beat this Tarver. Didn't enjoy their previous fights however so I wouldn't ask to see them fight again. Johnson has improved vs southpaws. A real learn-on-the-job type of bloke.

Don't see Woods beating any top fighter now. I thought whoever said Woods could beat Kessler was crazy. Woods needed a Paul Briggs or Danny Green to shine. Hard, aggressive Aussies. He missed that boat and he lost his title.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 14 Apr 2008, 05:35

Ant Evans wrote:I think we can all agree that was one of the most disappointing British efforts in the USA for many a year. I hope it emerges he had a serious injury or flu because Clinton will find that last fight hard to live with once he realises he let a guy thump him just because he starred in Rocky.

Also, maybe you are all going too hard on poor Pat Sheehan. Maybe he didn't have Woods ahead after 10 at all... a good percentage of the stuff which appears under his byline hasn't been written by him.

I lost count the number of times he'd cut and paste my own work from SecondsOut directly into his paper. One instance saw him do an 10 paragraph story on Johnson v Calzaghe and fully eight of those pars were - word for word - mine.

Also, "he" did a two pager on Lennox Lewis tipping Danny Williams to beat Klitschko. I conducted the interview in person with Lennox at MSG in October 2004 and put it on SecondsOut... then without even calling me to ask if he could throw me £50 and use my quotes Pat used the whole thing.

Get the bastard done for plagiary and hope he gets suspended or thrown off the paper.

Glyn Leach · Post by **Glyn Leach** » 14 Apr 2008, 05:39

Two words - football writer

Lenny · Post by **Lenny** » 14 Apr 2008, 05:47

Ant Evans wrote:.Thankfully, others at the Sun still have a sense of shame...

No chance!

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 14 Apr 2008, 06:09

Ant Evans wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Ant Evans wrote: Woods has beaten better fighters than Tarver.
No he certainly hasn't
Glen Johnson is a better fighter than Tarver.

Thats why he lost to him twice (first fight was a gift), plus Clinton never beat Johnson

pm · Post by pm » 14 Apr 2008, 07:06

Clinton's punch output really was abysmal, any punch stats floating about anywhere?

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 14 Apr 2008, 07:10

Certainly not the fight I was expecting, I underestimated Tarvers awkwardness, ability and how much he had left. Tarver repeatedly countered Clinton and made him pay for every mistake, which put Clinton in his shell.

No doubt a disappointing night for Clinton, but hje's had an excellent career

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 14 Apr 2008, 07:11

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Ant Evans wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: No he certainly hasn't
Glen Johnson is a better fighter than Tarver.
Thats why he lost to him twice (first fight was a gift), plus Clinton never beat Johnson

The first fight wasn't a gift. It was very close and provoked different interpretations. i had Johnson winning by 1. In the rematch, did Tarver really prove his superiority? Johnson was not at his best, had taken the fight without much notice. Tarver was so fvcked from slapping and running that he was falling over by the end. In the rematch, Tarver fought a terrible Johnson. What if he'd fought the Johnson of the Dawson fight, who used good footwork, moved the southpaw foe into a clockwise direction, and landed crafty, James Toney-like right hands?

I think Johnson's the better preserved. The longer they drag out their rivalry the better Johnson's chances are.

With Woods and Johnson, I had Johnson winning two. Fight 1, Johnson ahead by 3, then has a catastrophic 12th round where he is battered and dropped. Ref doesn't call it a KD however, so in that case Glen should've got the verdict.

Fight two, Johnson dominant.

Fight 3, narrow fight. You can't call it a robbery when it was competitive. Johnson definitely ahead after a massive 9th round. But Glen had nothing left after that and I had Woods sweeping the last 3 to win by 1 pt.

I won't argue with different interpretations to my view. But a lot of these fights are close and decided often on a knife edge.

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 14 Apr 2008, 08:30

You dont go forward with your hands above your ears waiting to get hit by a Southpaw sharpshooter, youll get hit and cant fire back your hands are in the wrong place to punch.