Danny "Dapper" Lopez and Carol Steindler (Howie's daughter)
"Father and Son" Luncheon....4-12-2008
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Miceli stopped Jay Fullmer (Gene's younger, smaller brother).dagosd2000 wrote:Frank
Do you ever remember seeing an Italian/American welterweight fight in LA. named Joe Miceli? I see he had a win over Art Aragon. I know Marciano used to criticize Miceli for beeing out of shape. Too much ravioli,not enough roadwork.
Then Miceli, never anything but a welterweight, was stupid enough enough to fight Gene, who obviously wanted revenge for his brother.
"He was knocked out real bad," Fullmer told me of his fight with Miceli.
"Why was he dumb enough to fight you?" I asked Fullmer. "Wasn't he just a welterweight? Wouldn't he know you would be out to get even for your brother?"
"I don't know about that that," Fullmer said with a chuckle. "But he was knocked out real bad."
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Rick Farris
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 7200
- Joined: 15 Feb 2008, 16:04
kikibalt wrote:
Gene Fullmer
Did you know that Fullmer fought a fight or two at the
Hollywood Legion when he was fighting 6 rounders?
Frank, Fullmer has become one of my favorite fighters in recent years, and was a friend of an uncle of mine, who lived in West Jordan, Utah, near Fullmer, during his career. I met Gene a couple of years back at the WBHOF banquet, however, I've made it a point to get my hands on as much video footage available over the former two-time middleweight champ.
As for your question, yes, I was aware that Fullmer fought at the Hollywood Legion, having studied his record. I was just a few months old when Fullmer fought there, in September 1952, and I believe that Hap Navarro was responsible for making the match.
My friend, boxing historian John Bardelli, has footage of Fullmer's fight with Eduardo Lausse, which was a real war, like most of Gene's top level fights. Fullmer is vastly under rated by many who are not aware that Gene was more than just a roughneck slugger. He was also an awkwardly deceptive boxer that knew exactly how to take the fight out of his opponents. I'm not telling anything new to those who post here, you guys know who the real talent in boxing is.
-Rick Farris
diego,dagosd2000 wrote:Frank
Do you ever remember seeing an Italian/American welterweight fight in LA. named Joe Miceli? I see he had a win over Art Aragon. I know Marciano used to criticize Miceli for beeing out of shape. Too much ravioli,not enough roadwork.
I seen Micelli fight Art Aragon live, I also seen his fights with Karl-Heinz Guder, Charly "Tombstone" Smith, Ramon Fuentes, and Don Jordan live,
plus I seen most of his fight that were on tv from back east.
Great left hooker!!
Rick,Rick Farris wrote:kikibalt wrote:
Gene Fullmer
Did you know that Fullmer fought a fight or two at the
Hollywood Legion when he was fighting 6 rounders?
Frank, Fullmer has become one of my favorite fighters in recent years, and was a friend of an uncle of mine, who lived in West Jordan, Utah, near Fullmer, during his career. I met Gene a couple of years back at the WBHOF banquet, however, I've made it a point to get my hands on as much video footage available over the former two-time middleweight champ.
As for your question, yes, I was aware that Fullmer fought at the Hollywood Legion, having studied his record. I was just a few months old when Fullmer fought there, in September 1952, and I believe that Hap Navarro was responsible for making the match.
My friend, boxing historian John Bardelli, has footage of Fullmer's fight with Eduardo Lausse, which was a real war, like most of Gene's top level fights. Fullmer is vastly under rated by many who are not aware that Gene was more than just a roughneck slugger. He was also an awkwardly deceptive boxer that knew exactly how to take the fight out of his opponents. I'm not telling anything new to those who post here, you guys know who the real talent in boxing is.
-Rick Farris
I might have seen Fullmer when he fought at the Hollywood Legion, either live or on tv, as I didn't miss hardly any local fights then, he fought Armando Cotero who was no easy fight for anybody.
I was at the Sugar Ray Raybinson fight at the Sports Arena in 1960.
Fullmer was one tought SOB, but not prettty to watch, but he was good at fighting with his style and you can't ask for more.
One of the most perfectly fought fights I have seen was Fullmer's performance in his first (title-winning) fight against Robinson.
Robinson fought like heck to keep his title, but he could only win a few rounds. Fullmer actually outboxed Robinson in that fight, feinting coming in from long range and fooling Robinson constantly into throwing or half throwing his right uppercut at nothing, since Fullmer did not move in. And then a moment later Fullmer was in and Robinson was never ready.
Fullmer murdered Robinson with a right hand to the head and body in close throughout the fight. I could not understand why a fighter as good as Robinson didn't just try to immobilize Fullmer's right arm in close rather than putting his left arm under Fullmer’s armpit, which left Fullmer’s right arm free to clobber Robinson.
Fullmer knocked Robinson down and through the ropes in the 6th [?] round. Robinson tried a number of times to burn Fullmer’s back on the ropes, but Fullmer couldn’t care less, just went right on fighting with terrific concentration.
Every time Robinson made an effort to rally, Fullmer covered up and let him punch away, only to come back and take the play away from Robinson with a rally of his own. His concentration was 100 %. He never varied from his fight plan, which worked, with a fighter on his level executing it.
That was by far Fullmer’s best performance –of those I have seen.
In their second fight I think Fullmer got smug. He was doing things he never did once in their first fight. Just before the KO he was throwing right hands to the body from long range—something he didn’t dare do in his perfectly fought first fight with Robinson.
Once I made a remark to Fullmer that Robinson was not strong (meaning like Fullmer, La Motta, Tiger Jones, etc).
Fullmer said, “No. He was strong.”
Fullmer was a very adaptable fighter. Look what he did twice with Basilio, fooling Basilio by not barreling in, but staying back a step and making Basilio lead and then clobbering him.
Basilio was only stopped twice in his career—both times by Fullmer.
Look at Fullmer’s fight plan against big puncher Florentino Fernandez, where Fullmer came out throwing heavy punches for the first rounds, keeping Fernandez so busy defending himself he had no time to get anything started himself. Fullmer fought the last rounds of that fight with a broken elbow.
Look at how Fullmer adapted in his second fight with Tiger, where he boxed at a distance, and the fight was a draw.
Fullmer said of Tiger, “I think he was the best boy I fought.” He had praise for Lausse, Gil Turner, Milo Savage,
among others.
He said he weighed 170 or more walking down the street when he was younger, but had no trouble making the 160 pounds. But then he found for his title defense against Tiger he couldn’t get down to 160. He finally took what he calls a “physic” just before the fight, which vacates the intestines violently, but also weakens you.
Fullmer discussed with me that he wondered if he should have tried fighting as a lightheavyweight. Would you really want to face Harold Johnson, Archie Moore? I asked.
I asked Fullmer why Paret, instead of using his speed and boxing ability, fought Fullmer with his back against the ropes in a corner for most of the fight. “I don’t know,” Fullmer said with great irritation.
“He NEVER should have fought so soon after his fight with me, ”Fullmer said vehemently of Paret’s final fight with Griffith. “He never should have fought so soon.”
Of course the NY state athletic commission forced that for Madison’s Square Garden’s big drawing card—Griffith.
They said Paret would be stripped of his welterweight title if he didn’t defend against Griffith in a certain number of days. Then they supplied their excuse for a “referee”, Ruby Goldstein, who always collapsed himself in the later rounds, just when a ref is needed most.
Fullmer was a much smarter and more adaptable fighter than most people (most people don’t have a clue what goes on in boxing) know.
It is interesting that former champions thought well of Fullmer. Mickey Walker said, “This kid could have fought in my time.”
Fullmer told me he got paid less for his title winning fight with Robinson than for any fight he had. And hardly any more for his second fight with Robinson. That what it was like doing business with Robinson.
Robinson fought like heck to keep his title, but he could only win a few rounds. Fullmer actually outboxed Robinson in that fight, feinting coming in from long range and fooling Robinson constantly into throwing or half throwing his right uppercut at nothing, since Fullmer did not move in. And then a moment later Fullmer was in and Robinson was never ready.
Fullmer murdered Robinson with a right hand to the head and body in close throughout the fight. I could not understand why a fighter as good as Robinson didn't just try to immobilize Fullmer's right arm in close rather than putting his left arm under Fullmer’s armpit, which left Fullmer’s right arm free to clobber Robinson.
Fullmer knocked Robinson down and through the ropes in the 6th [?] round. Robinson tried a number of times to burn Fullmer’s back on the ropes, but Fullmer couldn’t care less, just went right on fighting with terrific concentration.
Every time Robinson made an effort to rally, Fullmer covered up and let him punch away, only to come back and take the play away from Robinson with a rally of his own. His concentration was 100 %. He never varied from his fight plan, which worked, with a fighter on his level executing it.
That was by far Fullmer’s best performance –of those I have seen.
In their second fight I think Fullmer got smug. He was doing things he never did once in their first fight. Just before the KO he was throwing right hands to the body from long range—something he didn’t dare do in his perfectly fought first fight with Robinson.
Once I made a remark to Fullmer that Robinson was not strong (meaning like Fullmer, La Motta, Tiger Jones, etc).
Fullmer said, “No. He was strong.”
Fullmer was a very adaptable fighter. Look what he did twice with Basilio, fooling Basilio by not barreling in, but staying back a step and making Basilio lead and then clobbering him.
Basilio was only stopped twice in his career—both times by Fullmer.
Look at Fullmer’s fight plan against big puncher Florentino Fernandez, where Fullmer came out throwing heavy punches for the first rounds, keeping Fernandez so busy defending himself he had no time to get anything started himself. Fullmer fought the last rounds of that fight with a broken elbow.
Look at how Fullmer adapted in his second fight with Tiger, where he boxed at a distance, and the fight was a draw.
Fullmer said of Tiger, “I think he was the best boy I fought.” He had praise for Lausse, Gil Turner, Milo Savage,
among others.
He said he weighed 170 or more walking down the street when he was younger, but had no trouble making the 160 pounds. But then he found for his title defense against Tiger he couldn’t get down to 160. He finally took what he calls a “physic” just before the fight, which vacates the intestines violently, but also weakens you.
Fullmer discussed with me that he wondered if he should have tried fighting as a lightheavyweight. Would you really want to face Harold Johnson, Archie Moore? I asked.
I asked Fullmer why Paret, instead of using his speed and boxing ability, fought Fullmer with his back against the ropes in a corner for most of the fight. “I don’t know,” Fullmer said with great irritation.
“He NEVER should have fought so soon after his fight with me, ”Fullmer said vehemently of Paret’s final fight with Griffith. “He never should have fought so soon.”
Of course the NY state athletic commission forced that for Madison’s Square Garden’s big drawing card—Griffith.
They said Paret would be stripped of his welterweight title if he didn’t defend against Griffith in a certain number of days. Then they supplied their excuse for a “referee”, Ruby Goldstein, who always collapsed himself in the later rounds, just when a ref is needed most.
Fullmer was a much smarter and more adaptable fighter than most people (most people don’t have a clue what goes on in boxing) know.
It is interesting that former champions thought well of Fullmer. Mickey Walker said, “This kid could have fought in my time.”
Fullmer told me he got paid less for his title winning fight with Robinson than for any fight he had. And hardly any more for his second fight with Robinson. That what it was like doing business with Robinson.
This occurred in Davila's world title fight with Enrique Sanchez in 1984. Staged outdoors in Miami, Albert was getting his arse kicked when storm clouds built up and the Heavens opened during the middle rounds. The rain was said to revive Davila who came on to stop Sanchez in the 11th. In truth, Davila always finished strongly but he was definitely losing before the rain and it's a nice story.kikibalt wrote:
Albert Davila vs Enrique Sanchez
Photo, courtesy of Boxingnut
Was Kenny Davis a collegiate boxing champ?kikibalt wrote:
Great amateur fighter
Maybe Im getting him a bit confused with Kenny Lane.
It looks like he was matched pretty tough early on in his career.
He was stopped by Sandy Saddler early on.
Maybe sometimes a sterling amateur record can kinda hurt you as a pro.
You could wind up with real confident handlers.
Thanks Bennie for your insight.bennie wrote:This occurred in Davila's world title fight with Enrique Sanchez in 1984. Staged outdoors in Miami, Albert was getting his arse kicked when storm clouds built up and the Heavens opened during the middle rounds. The rain was said to revive Davila who came on to stop Sanchez in the 11th. In truth, Davila always finished strongly but he was definitely losing before the rain and it's a nice story.kikibalt wrote:
Albert Davila vs Enrique Sanchez
Photo, courtesy of Boxingnut
No Davis was not collegiate boxing champ, don't know about Lane, but maybe you're thinking about Chuck Davey.Expug wrote:Was Kenny Davis a collegiate boxing champ?kikibalt wrote:
Great amateur fighter
Maybe Im getting him a bit confused with Kenny Lane.
It looks like he was matched pretty tough early on in his career.
He was stopped by Sandy Saddler early on.
Maybe sometimes a sterling amateur record can kinda hurt you as a pro.
You could wind up with real confident handlers.
Give me the little guys, any day. Davila, incidentally, 'turned' Sanchez so the rain was driving into Sanchez's face. No matter what Sanchez did, he was unable to prevent that rain bouncing off his face, followed by Davila's punches.kikibalt wrote:Thanks Bennie for your insight.bennie wrote:This occurred in Davila's world title fight with Enrique Sanchez in 1984. Staged outdoors in Miami, Albert was getting his arse kicked when storm clouds built up and the Heavens opened during the middle rounds. The rain was said to revive Davila who came on to stop Sanchez in the 11th. In truth, Davila always finished strongly but he was definitely losing before the rain and it's a nice story.kikibalt wrote:
Albert Davila vs Enrique Sanchez
Photo, courtesy of Boxingnut
Davila wasn't a big puncher but he was a strong, strong bantamweight.
Last edited by bennie on 17 Apr 2008, 09:37, edited 1 time in total.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
I remember when the Rock had that TV program where he'd analyze recent fights. He'd speak in that Dago voice and tell it like it is. "I told ya' Joe(Miceli)to do more work in da' gym. Ya' don't listen. Now you're payin' for it".
Frank
You're right about Gene Fullmer. Not pretty to watch. He beat up Robinson in a couple of fights and was too strong for Basilio.Hurt Paret bad. I think he gave people the impression that he was a dirty fighter because of his style. It was his style,no more than that. A real gentleman. I thought Marv Jensen handled him well. After his last bout with Tiger,Marv talked Gene into retiring.
Frank
You're right about Gene Fullmer. Not pretty to watch. He beat up Robinson in a couple of fights and was too strong for Basilio.Hurt Paret bad. I think he gave people the impression that he was a dirty fighter because of his style. It was his style,no more than that. A real gentleman. I thought Marv Jensen handled him well. After his last bout with Tiger,Marv talked Gene into retiring.
Fullmer had many different styles.dagosd2000 wrote:I remember when the Rock had that TV program where he'd analyze recent fights. He'd speak in that Dago voice and tell it like it is. "I told ya' Joe(Miceli)to do more work in da' gym. Ya' don't listen. Now you're payin' for it".
Frank
You're right about Gene Fullmer. Not pretty to watch. He beat up Robinson in a couple of fights and was too strong for Basilio.Hurt Paret bad. I think he gave people the impression that he was a dirty fighter because of his style. It was his style,no more than that. A real gentleman. I thought Marv Jensen handled him well. After his last bout with Tiger,Marv talked Gene into retiring.
He fought completely differently in various fights---for example in Robinson I as compared with the two with Basilio as compared to Fernandez as compared to Tiger II, etc.
He adapted to the opponent.
Mighty Mo wins again
By Rudy Orozco
Rudy is a friend of mine.
Don't know the fellow with Mighty Mo.
Mighty Mo is NOT a boxer of the past,
But I thought this was the place for
the article.
The difficult journey to Independence, Mo., to participate in the 2008 National Silver Gloves Boxing Championship began back in November.
The Silver Gloves tournament is a three-day tournament set up for boxers between 10 and 15 years old. The end results determine who will be the next national boxing champion in various weight classes. It is a major accomplishment in the amateur boxing world to take part in this national tournament. Oscar de la Hoya is one who conquered this tournament as an amateur many years ago.
Long Beach's Moises "Mighty Mo" Orozco, 11, was there at the local level when he battled and defeated the tough Omar Trinidad of Los Angeles and stopped Francisco Alvarez of Wilmington at the District Silver Gloves championship finals.
In early December, Mighty Mo went to the state championships, where he out-punched Kevin Montano and Ruben Villa and went on to the regionals.
The regionals found the best young boxers from Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah and California. Mighty Mo represented California and defeated Andres Cortez of Nevada in a decision win and also bested Damiez Vasquez of Colorado.
The 2008 National Silver Gloves tournament from Jan. 30 to Feb. 2 drew more than 300 young boxers.
The sole Long Beach representative took on Miguel Banda of Houston and won. He also fought Omar Gallegos of Boise in the semis. The only thing standing between Mighty Mo and the victory was Christian Bermudez of Brooklyn. When the opening bell rang, Mighty Mo advanced forward with stiff left jabs, followed by hard rights and double left hooks. The kid from Brooklyn fought with all his heart but did not have the power to hold off Mighty Mo. The bout provided three rounds of action, but there was never a question about the outcome.
This tournament has produced nothing but champions in the past and Mighty Mo had to defeat nine of the best young boxers in the nation to get his hand raised. It took a lot of determination, heart and inner strength to stay focused, but he did it!
Rudy Orozco is Mighty Mo's father and coach. They live in Long Beach and Mighty Mo hopes to represent the United States in the 2016 Olympic Games.
By Rudy Orozco
Rudy is a friend of mine.
Don't know the fellow with Mighty Mo.
Mighty Mo is NOT a boxer of the past,
But I thought this was the place for
the article.
The difficult journey to Independence, Mo., to participate in the 2008 National Silver Gloves Boxing Championship began back in November.
The Silver Gloves tournament is a three-day tournament set up for boxers between 10 and 15 years old. The end results determine who will be the next national boxing champion in various weight classes. It is a major accomplishment in the amateur boxing world to take part in this national tournament. Oscar de la Hoya is one who conquered this tournament as an amateur many years ago.
Long Beach's Moises "Mighty Mo" Orozco, 11, was there at the local level when he battled and defeated the tough Omar Trinidad of Los Angeles and stopped Francisco Alvarez of Wilmington at the District Silver Gloves championship finals.
In early December, Mighty Mo went to the state championships, where he out-punched Kevin Montano and Ruben Villa and went on to the regionals.
The regionals found the best young boxers from Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, Utah and California. Mighty Mo represented California and defeated Andres Cortez of Nevada in a decision win and also bested Damiez Vasquez of Colorado.
The 2008 National Silver Gloves tournament from Jan. 30 to Feb. 2 drew more than 300 young boxers.
The sole Long Beach representative took on Miguel Banda of Houston and won. He also fought Omar Gallegos of Boise in the semis. The only thing standing between Mighty Mo and the victory was Christian Bermudez of Brooklyn. When the opening bell rang, Mighty Mo advanced forward with stiff left jabs, followed by hard rights and double left hooks. The kid from Brooklyn fought with all his heart but did not have the power to hold off Mighty Mo. The bout provided three rounds of action, but there was never a question about the outcome.
This tournament has produced nothing but champions in the past and Mighty Mo had to defeat nine of the best young boxers in the nation to get his hand raised. It took a lot of determination, heart and inner strength to stay focused, but he did it!
Rudy Orozco is Mighty Mo's father and coach. They live in Long Beach and Mighty Mo hopes to represent the United States in the 2016 Olympic Games.