Judges & TV Commentators & Crowd

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 16 Apr 2008, 14:56

Calzaghe v Hopkins as I have stated worries because of what and who and of course if the judges will be influenced.

Will the crowd influence the judges?

Will TV influence the judges?

Will someone knobble the judges ? (Lawyers its just a question?)

I will deal with just my middle point - will the TV commentators influence the judges - now if you havn't been to a fight some may not know what I am getting at here.

I am going to give you all an example - At the Michael Hunter v Esham Pickering fight in Hartlepool it was a f*cking great atmosphere but we were packed in there - it was a great fight and to some it was a very disputed decision - and curiosity got the better of me!!! - Why - because on that particular fight I was sat near Ian McNeillly and happened to find myself a seat in the press seats - sat merely a couple of feet in front was one of the judges - he was jammed in there because litterally just on his left shoulder was the Sky TV desk where the commentators were barking out their commentary - I stress due to the venue things were very cramped indeed - the judge could not help but hear the commentary - in addition if he managed to block that out - how the f*ck the crowd did not influence I will never know.

That judge I am waffling about must have had a terrible job concentrating on his own thoughts and judgement.

I am worried and said it all along about Calzaghe/Hopkins and the judges - do we know who they are yet?

Forum - name fights where you have thought what the f*ck has gone wrong there with regards the scoring - are the judges always to blame -

Have you got a fight scored wrong before - in hindsight gone back to that fight and thought bloody hell it was close!!!

Give you some examples

Holyfield - Lewis 1

Holyfield - Lewis 2 (thought that fight was a lot bloody closer than 1st!!!!)

Barnes - Vincent

I could go on.

I swear blind my soap box will be out and I will be standing on it - saying Calzaghe was robbed!!!

Lets hope I am wrong and Calzaghe wins easily enough before the final bell is sounded!!!

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:03

I was at Goresbrook for a fight, sat ringside behind the judges table, and when it was quiet you could clearly hear Jim Watts commentary, even though he was round the corner of the ring - so I dont even think it needs to be cramped.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:06

MatthewS wrote:I was at Goresbrook for a fight, sat ringside behind the judges table, and when it was quiet you could clearly hear Jim Watts commentary, even though he was round the corner of the ring - so I dont even think it needs to be cramped.

Do you see the point I am making here - when a judge hears so called experts and their views on a fight actually DURING the fight - are people really expecting us to people this hinders a judges judgement!!!

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:07

Spud wrote:
MatthewS wrote:I was at Goresbrook for a fight, sat ringside behind the judges table, and when it was quiet you could clearly hear Jim Watts commentary, even though he was round the corner of the ring - so I dont even think it needs to be cramped.
Do you see the point I am making here - when a judge hears so called experts and their views on a fight actually DURING the fight - are people really expecting us to people this hinders a judges judgement!!!

I think it must make their job very difficult not to be swayed by judges, but also the crowd - the more supported fighter will get a better noise when he lands.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:12

Going to the Calzaghe v Hopkins fight - is Hopkins popular in Vegas - or will Calzaghe get the more vocal support do you think?

I honestly believe this will be another key factor.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:15

Spud wrote:Going to the Calzaghe v Hopkins fight - is Hopkins popular in Vegas - or will Calzaghe get the more vocal support do you think?

I honestly believe this will be another key factor.

we do seem to do vocal support better than the yanks, but I dont know what the figures are for Calzaghe fans at the venue

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:27

MatthewS wrote:
Spud wrote:Going to the Calzaghe v Hopkins fight - is Hopkins popular in Vegas - or will Calzaghe get the more vocal support do you think?

I honestly believe this will be another key factor.
we do seem to do vocal support better than the yanks, but I dont know what the figures are for Calzaghe fans at the venue

Said on Radio 5 tonight there were tickets available in all areas!!!

To be honest that doesn't surprise me - a lot of Brits brough their tickets either the day before or on the day of the fight at Hatton/Castillo.

Incidentally Matthew do you think the fight gets controversial or do you see it as an esay win for Joe?

Mukel · Post by **Mukel** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:35

the figure 4000 has been quoted of the number of travelling fans to see calzaghe.

m1kee50 · Post by **m1kee50** » 16 Apr 2008, 15:44

Spud wrote:
MatthewS wrote:
Spud wrote:Going to the Calzaghe v Hopkins fight - is Hopkins popular in Vegas - or will Calzaghe get the more vocal support do you think?

I honestly believe this will be another key factor.
we do seem to do vocal support better than the yanks, but I dont know what the figures are for Calzaghe fans at the venue
Said on Radio 5 tonight there were tickets available in all areas!!!

To be honest that doesn't surprise me - a lot of Brits brough their tickets either the day before or on the day of the fight at Hatton/Castillo.

Incidentally Matthew do you think the fight gets controversial or do you see it as an esay win for Joe?

I dont think its going to be pretty, and I think that away from home, Joe will get a close UD or a split win.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 17 Apr 2008, 03:12

MatthewS wrote:
Spud wrote:
MatthewS wrote: we do seem to do vocal support better than the yanks, but I dont know what the figures are for Calzaghe fans at the venue
Said on Radio 5 tonight there were tickets available in all areas!!!

To be honest that doesn't surprise me - a lot of Brits brough their tickets either the day before or on the day of the fight at Hatton/Castillo.

Incidentally Matthew do you think the fight gets controversial or do you see it as an esay win for Joe?
I dont think its going to be pretty, and I think that away from home, Joe will get a close UD or a split win.

Does anyone know who the judges are?

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 17 Apr 2008, 03:41

I take your point, Spud, but if they are any good, they shouldn't be influenced by ANYTHING. That's why they are 'judges' after all - the same with high court judges, etc. They are supposed to have the wherewithal to reject outside factors.

Whether they do or not is another matter. 8)

Dirk Kelly · Post by **Dirk Kelly** » 17 Apr 2008, 03:53

I thought in the Kenna vs. Steads fight, the ref was bricking it from the fans as they were all sat at ringside hence no points deductions for spittings, bitting etc.

However I thought this was close but upon watching the replay, Steads clearly won, the points if they were deducted would have made it close or best a draw. He fought the smarter fight and used his 1,2, with good effect.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 17 Apr 2008, 03:59

Would it be progress if they appointed a judge to score from outside the arena watching the fight on a TV monitor, with no commentary or crowd noises? just a suggestion.

You wouldn't get him intimadated by the crowd either, maybe his score could only be used in the case of a draw.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 17 Apr 2008, 04:51

I have seen various figures for fans attending, last I read they are expecting 10,000 Brits in Vegas for the fight. Quite how many of those will be at the fight I don't know. Where do they get these figures from?

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 17 Apr 2008, 13:06

The reason why I mention the crowd that will be there supporting calzaghe is in my view they need to cheer and hollar his every punch.

The Brits at ringside need to be shouting and screaming their bloody heads off - I am telling you now the judges in my view in America are the worst around - and with Hopkins being a joint promoter with ODH I am sorry in my opinion I smell a rat!!!

Someone has just said this to me - lets see if Joe Cortez pulls up Hopkins for his clinching and holding/spoiling as much as he did with Hatton in the PBF fight ... interesting point because you can absolutely guarentee that will be one of Hopkins tactics when calzaghe gets inside the Hopkins jab and run tactics!!!

twenty six · Post by **twenty six** » 17 Apr 2008, 14:08

I think Cortez refereeing is a massive plus for Joe.
Cortez knows he fucked up big style with his control of the Hatton fight.
He'll let this one flow - which is to Joe's advantage.
As for the Judges - tell me something new !
The pressure from the promoter far outweighs the pressure of any overheard commentary or robust crowd.
If you've already made up your mind before the fight who's won - why give a fornicate about the view, the crowd, the TV ... ?
Controversial I know - but I believe it to be true.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 17 Apr 2008, 14:12

Spud wrote:The reason why I mention the crowd that will be there supporting calzaghe is in my view they need to cheer and hollar his every punch.

The Brits at ringside need to be shouting and screaming their bloody heads off - I am telling you now the judges in my view in America are the worst around - and with Hopkins being a joint promoter with ODH I am sorry in my opinion I smell a rat!!!

Someone has just said this to me - lets see if Joe Cortez pulls up Hopkins for his clinching and holding/spoiling as much as he did with Hatton in the PBF fight ... interesting point because you can absolutely guarentee that will be one of Hopkins tactics when calzaghe gets inside the Hopkins jab and run tactics!!!

if Cortez is going to be a difficult twat, then he may pull Calzaghe up for anything like slapping, cuffing left hooks, backhand jabs.

However he took a lot of stick with the Hatton fight, so he may "be nice to" Calzaghe here.

Hopkins however managed to get Cortez on his side once. By threatening to pull out of his Robbie Allen rubber match if Cortez was reffing. Cortez wound up favouring Hopkins big time. Even getting coached in there a bit by Hopkins.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 17 Apr 2008, 14:25

Didn't know boxrec was so good on their stats - but if you type in Cortez's name as if it were a boxer and then click on Referee - you can see where the man has Reff'd - mainly in Vegas.

He rarely goes outside Vegas - I type much more I go into dangerous territory.

Said it all along until I have bored you all stupid - I smell a rat.

I really would like to know the judges!!! - does anyone know them?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 17 Apr 2008, 16:21

Spud wrote:Didn't know boxrec was so good on their stats - but if you type in Cortez's name as if it were a boxer and then click on Referee - you can see where the man has Reff'd - mainly in Vegas.

He rarely goes outside Vegas - I type much more I go into dangerous territory.

Said it all along until I have bored you all stupid - I smell a rat.

I really would like to know the judges!!! - does anyone know them?

Yes, I thought he had visited the UK more often... However, he is a normally a very good referee - one of the best.

Yes, he bottled it in the Hatton fight, but for me it wasn't corruption or anything like that - a bad night at the office, fuelled by Billy Graham's word to him just before the fight IMO.

Who was the "away" fighter that night. Floyd, or Hatton the guy who will be fighting under the Golden boy banner, the guy who Oscar publically backed and willed... the guy Oscar wanted to beat up.

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 17 Apr 2008, 18:04

There is far more at stake in these joints that 'sport'.

Vegas was literally hand-built by crooks only 60 years ago, starting with the Flamingo i believe.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Brits laid that much money on a Hatton win that Cortez was not infringed in anyway by the 'house' as they stood to lose an absolute fortune on him if he came up with the win.

Cortez for me was the most inteferring referee i had ever seen in any fight in my life.

I still think Hatton had a mountain to climb, but he was climbing it with Cortez clinging to his ankles.

There is no secret of the fact that handshakes and 'perks' take place between these promoters, venues and fights... even sanctioning bodies.

I recall Chavez being on a colossal losing streak and the tail end of his career when suddenly Suliaman declared that the King-promoted chavez should be a mandatory opponent for then champ, Kostya Tszyu. At the time he was ranked about 15th by everyone else. Tszyu even had to travel to his backyard for the defence after they lost the purse by a few pennies.

I read recently that Pavlik's winning shorts were requested off of him by Suliaman's son - 'You need to give those shorts as a gift to my father'.. and Kelly protested that they still had his blood on them and that he wanted to keep them.

He actually left with the shorts, but an official found out and made him return them the following day, as they were believed to be worth $20,000 to a collector.

I'm sure some judges get a lovely suite for the weekend of the fight plus a limo laid on by some connection of the promoter.

This link holds some very interesting facts towards the bottom :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Boxing_Council

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 18 Apr 2008, 04:32

Thom Hauser is the man on this stuff. Look up some of his work on these issues.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 18 Apr 2008, 12:38

DavidPayne wrote:Thom Hauser is the man on this stuff. Look up some of his work on these issues.

He was the very man who came up in conversation today - he has found out some good stuff recently - rather eye opening to say the least concerning ticket distribution etc etc but lets not go there.

If you were a real cynic you could ask the following questions

Who is the major partner in GBP - Bernard Hopkins

Who is the major promoter in Vegas with the biggest money grossing fights as well as much needed business for the Casino's - GBP

Who is the Ref and where is he doing most of his fights - Cortez/Vegas

I really do not have a good feeling about this at all.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 18 Apr 2008, 13:02

Ahaa finally got to the bottom of who is judging the fight - all 3 are Americans!!

Ted Gimza
Adelaide Byrd
Chuck Giampa

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 18 Apr 2008, 13:29

Well the judges would be American. They are all ratified by Nevada State.

Cortez is a worrying choice for me, he clearly went into the Hatton fight with an Agenda, I assumed it was hero worship, given the way he was virtually fellating Mayweather before and after the fight.

However, as I said in mine and Terrence's piece on BBN, Hopkins isn't even popular in his hometown let alone Vegas. He stinks the joint out more often than not, and he gets booed often. He was booed at points in the Hakkar fight, booed during the Eastman fight, and Booed at points in the Winky fight too. He is far from a crowd pleaser, and in Vegas it will be even worse, because Vegas crowds go there for action.

Couple that with 4000 pissed up supporters screaming and shouting every time Calzaghe throws a flurry, and if anything the referees will be influenced in favour of Calzaghe.

If Cortez lets Hopkins maul and foul all the way through this fight then I will personally go over there and kick the bald turtle faced pudendum in the nuts and then piss all over him.

Cortez has a reputation for being very fussy, so if he just lets Hopkins hold and maul, then there is certainly something wrong.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 18 Apr 2008, 14:32

Bloody good point about the booing James!!

A good factor in Joe's favour.

The Americans like seeing a fight - they don't want any pussy footing around.

I remember me and Rhino being at the Williams/Klitschko fight - some of the crowd started booing - I wondered what the f*ck at - its just they wanted to see 20 knockdowns a round!!!

James with regards to your point concerning the judges - b*llocks!!! - this is a massive fight - and whether the Nevada State Athletic Commission were ratifying the judges or not - surely Mr W arren had some sort of say in this??

This is not some small undercard fight where the local governing body sling in the judges - its a major world leading fight - and I seriously cannot believe the Ref and the judges are all American!!!