Rocky Marciano v Evander Holyfield (both at 188lbs)

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 19 Feb 2004, 05:58

Who would win and why?

zojo · Post by **zojo** » 19 Feb 2004, 06:03

Rocky.

Too much cutting weight from Evender would weaken him and he would get KO'ed. Rock was much better than Dwight Qawi (sp?) and Holyfield was taken to the test, then needed many liters of IV fluid in him after the fight due to dehydration from cutting weight.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 19 Feb 2004, 14:01

a young evander wouldn`t need to lose much weight.
this is a good question, while the rock probably had as much drive and guts as anyone evander doesn`t exactly lack in the bravery department either.
in his first fight against tyson (when i genuinley feared for his saftey!!) he was the only man up to that point who squared up to tyson during the prelims and wasn`t scared of him. tyson saw in holyfields eyes that this man was not a beaten fighter before the fight had begun. i dont think iron mike had experienced that before.(douglas was as shocked as the rest of us!)
marciano was probably the more destructive puncher but holyfield the more rounded fighter. both have seen the canvas more than once.
its too close to call imo, but i`d love to see it!! two genuine greats.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 19 Feb 2004, 14:08

headhunter wrote:a young evander wouldn`t need to lose much weight.
this is a good question, while the rock probably had as much drive and guts as anyone evander doesn`t exactly lack in the bravery department either.
in his first fight against tyson (when i genuinley feared for his saftey!!) he was the only man up to that point who squared up to tyson during the prelims and wasn`t scared of him. tyson saw in holyfields eyes that this man was not a beaten fighter before the fight had begun. i dont think iron mike had experienced that before.(douglas was as shocked as the rest of us!)
marciano was probably the more destructive puncher but holyfield the more rounded fighter. both have seen the canvas more than once.
its too close to call imo, but i`d love to see it!! two genuine greats.

Yeah, if you took the Holyfield of 87 or early 88 he could have made 188.

One of the greatest mythical matchups in history.

Not for the faint hearted.

I'd lean to the Rock, but who knows

perrycarter · Post by **perrycarter** » 19 Feb 2004, 14:12

I've thought about this before. Holy at Cruiser was an absolute beast. Im thinking that the Holyfield that beat Qawi in 3 would eek out a win against Rocky. He could smother the punches and be aggressive in a way the Rock had not really encountered. Evander was capable of handling Marciano in a similar way that he beat Tyson.

Tough call though, Marciano's power and ability to land since Evander would be right in front of me might be too much heat to handle.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 19 Feb 2004, 21:55

I say Marciano would just hit too hard and had a stronger chin as well. Marciano by a close decision or late round TKO.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 20 Feb 2004, 00:05

Helluva matchup. Though Holyfield is the more skilled overall, Marciano was just one determined, unstoppable MF. I think Evander would give in to the urge to brawl and he'd pay. But man while it lasted this would be worth seeing.

ferroz · Post by **ferroz** » 20 Feb 2004, 00:42

I think Rocky wins but it would be such a great battle.

jsc1973 · Post by **jsc1973** » 23 Feb 2004, 02:40

Holyfield looked like he would never lose a fight when he was fighting around 188 pounds. He generally won just about every round and eventually dropped the other guy after he'd taken so much punishment. Of course, he never fought anyone as tough as Marciano.

I can't imagine anyone fighting at cruiser knocking out Holyfield when he was only 26. He's well past 40 now, and he still hasn't been counted out in his career, even against 250-pound Riddick Bowe in Bowe's prime. Holy was a more skilled boxer than the Rock, so I'd call this one for Evander by a narrow UD.

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 23 Feb 2004, 11:51

jsc1973 wrote:Holy was a more skilled boxer than the Rock, so I'd call this one for Evander by a narrow UD.

I disagree - Marciano's boxing skills are generally quite underrated these days - not sure why, but perhaps it's because he was so tough and had such dynamite in his fists that people tend to remember that, rather than the technical stuff, like how he could beautifully feint with the right to set up that wicked left hook he worked so many years developing in the gym.

Archie Moore and Joe Louis, for instance, are both on record as being greatly surprised by Rocky's skills - like many of the posters here, they greatly underestimated them.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 23 Feb 2004, 12:45

Very true, Eric. Marciano was also not so easy to hit. Reviewing the Moore match, look how small Rocky could make himself. Not a lot of slipping or moving, but bending at the waist. That's a style that will wear you out if you're not in prime condition, and Rocky always was. Conditioning was a big key in his success.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 29 Feb 2004, 07:51

This fight would be one of the best match ups u would ever want to see. But no one ever beat Marciano and i don't think that Holyfield could have either.

The_Power · Post by **The_Power** » 29 Feb 2004, 10:27

The fearless evander would box and his way to a closeish UD in my opinion.

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 02 Mar 2004, 10:17

Evander would win 4 out of the first 6 rounds...then Rocky would start to land often...wearing Holy down and eventually stopping him late.

surefire72 · Post by **surefire72** » 07 Mar 2004, 20:28

The best way to figure a winner would be the Evander vs, Qawi 1,& tyson1
Then rocky vs, E. Charles 1& 2, & Moore fights.

These fights best be compare to the styles to mesh a fantasy brawl

"The fight" & that would be the perfect name for it. Holyfield is the bigger fighter here the weights would have to be 189 for rock & 200 for Holyfield( cruiser version).
Rocky has a great defense & offense the bobbing , the leaning down, & cross-armed were great tools he used . Rocks offense was simple hit the other guy until he went , that means bang the arms ,body & head no punch wasted! All his opponents say they had blood clots on there ribs & arms from rocky hitting 'em.

Holyfield has a will to win almost had like a royalty about himself . He acted like he was king to the boxing throne , & fought like it too.
commander Vader excelled against fighters his size , well giants to, well all shapes & sizes. But anyway the Jab is sharp , the hook was very underrated along with the right hand. The one knack is the stanima,. I could never figure out why the body beautiful holy could look so tired at the end of many of his fights. This is crucial when matching the 2 . Rocky never stop coming.
Evander would for sure take a big lead from 1st to the 6th, by jabing clinching , & punchin in combos.
Roc would get stuck picking shots off looking all the time waiting for his moment.
After the 6th Rocky will have started to impose himself on Holy, & Evander would know what all Rockys previous victims knew , he hurts. Evander will have slowed tremedously by 7 & be come stationary for the Roc to tee off on the ropes.
The fighters will be clinching way to much, cause of Holy trying to buy time to regroup.
Roc will break through in the 10 & score a looping right & bounce it off holys head . Evander crashes hard, gets up & fights back to the bell.
In the 11th , Marciano close the gap & corners Holyfield on the ropes again this time he lets go with everything, Holyfield goes down a 2 time .
Evander rises again , staggering around the ring Rocky chases his hurt foe, & runs into a booming right & down goes Rocky. He gets up & the fighters once again go at it. both men are visiably hurt at the rounds end.
In the 12th Evander gets his 2nd wind & jabs the round away, nothing exciting to tell. ( Rocky goes all night until now without a cut)

What you thought the fight was over no baby this a 15 rounder.
Both guys fought in the 15 round era.
!3 & 14 rounds are fought on even terms controll going back & forth,
Rocky seems to land the more telling blows, as Holy shows the crowd he feels them.The blood is flowing in rockys eyes & this gives Evander a chance to make a stand. he jabs throws the right & then lets go witha whicked left hook & Rocky doesnt see it coming , The hook stiffens the bent over Roc into a straight up position allowing evander to get in a nother hook.
Rocky 's turn to go to the ropes were he's leaning over, Holy sees this & lets rip a beautiful uppercut to rock Marciano again. The rock does everything but go down the bell rings & the fight is over.

What you thought because they are punchers that it wouldnt go the distance, fights always prove us wrong on this so many times!

The call is split for the roc, Holy rest to much in the fight & Rocky steals some rounds that should have gone to him. what about fight 2

$eif · Post by **$eif** » 07 Mar 2004, 20:44

Rocky!

Tooooo strong for Holyfield

! he will get killed :P !

[/img]http://www.jorgemata.info/fotosboxeo/marciano.jpg[img]

surefire72 · Post by **surefire72** » 09 Mar 2004, 08:09

Too bad this fight only exist in knockoutkings! What a fight that would have been

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 16 Mar 2004, 02:27

it might come down to who landed the strongest head butt first.

....here we have two of the most determined fighters the heavier ranks have ever seen. great heart..great will to win...and not fastidious in the gentlemanly aspects of the science.. i'd give the edge to marciano because holyfield, even in his better fights..didn't fight three minute rounds...he usually took some time off around the middle of each round. his training made him more of a sprinter than a marathoner.

marciano was just the oppposite. never stopped coming, got stronger as the rounds went on, never seemed to tire and for these qualities i'd pick him to win, probably by late round kayo.

to those who say marciano's "skills" were under rated.....i have a hard time dealing with a sentence about marciano in which the word "skills' appears.

pringle · Post by **pringle** » 17 Mar 2004, 07:13

it would have been the heavyweight version of gatti-ward. (or cruiserweight, depends on which era the fight takes place)

turn2stone · Post by **turn2stone** » 17 Mar 2004, 09:05

Evander tears the stubby little man apart.
Holy by TKO..cuts. Especially if post 1980 blood-fearing refs and doctors are used.

Marciano Frazier · Post by **Marciano Frazier** » 18 Mar 2004, 03:41

Jaclem wrote:it might come down to who landed the strongest head butt first.

....here we have two of the most determined fighters the heavier ranks have ever seen. great heart..great will to win...and not fastidious in the gentlemanly aspects of the science.. i'd give the edge to marciano because holyfield, even in his better fights..didn't fight three minute rounds...he usually took some time off around the middle of each round. his training made him more of a sprinter than a marathoner.

marciano was just the oppposite. never stopped coming, got stronger as the rounds went on, never seemed to tire and for these qualities i'd pick him to win, probably by late round kayo.

to those who say marciano's "skills" were under rated.....i have a hard time dealing with a sentence about marciano in which the word "skills' appears.

"to those who say marciano's "skills" were under rated.....i have a hard time dealing with a sentence about marciano in which the word "skills' appears."
Joe Louis is on record saying he was surprised by how skilled Marciano was. I'm not sure I can find the direct quote online, but I've heard it many times. Seriously, as much as Marciano may have lacked well-timed bobbing and weaving or flashy footwork, he used simple but effective tactics to make up for his lack of these things, and in fact he was very skilled- the man knew how to fight exactly right for his particular traits, and made optimal use of all his strengths and weaknesses. Marciano had a crouching defense. He came in bent at the waist positioned in such a manner to be as small a target as possible, the crouch which he worked on with his trainer Charlie Goldman, and while he didn't look like a really difficult target, Marciano was deceptively hard to hit with a clean shot. I've reviewed films of a lot of his fights just to see, and found frequently that if you don't look closely it seems like he's taking so much punishment he has to be getting punch-drunk, but in fact I found that very few of his opponents' punches actually landed in a manner that would really do damage to him.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 18 Mar 2004, 13:23

...when bill veeck managed the white sox he put a midget in to pinch hit. small strike zone. i guess you could say he was a tough out because of his skills.

re:marciano being hard to hit...take a look at him after some of his fights...brings up the old joke about "keep your eye on the referee because somebody is beating the hell out of me."

Eric the Viking · Post by **Eric the Viking** » 18 Mar 2004, 13:51

Jaclem wrote:...when bill veeck managed the white sox he put a midget in to pinch hit. small strike zone. i guess you could say he was a tough out because of his skills.

If that midget walked 4 times out of 5 and socked the ball out of the stadium the 5th time, the analogy would be more apt. Unlike the midget, Marciano wasn't just a stationary target, albeit one with a great chin.

Look, no one is saying the Rock was anywhere near as good a pure boxer as Moore or Charles, but the fact that he beat them both says something. These guys didn't lose to crude slugger types.

You could look at Jirov as a modern-day analog of Marciano, though the Rock was even better conditioned and hit way harder. Both guys are relentless come-forward types, take a lot of shots but their excellent chin, stamina and mental toughness keep them in the fight until an opportunity presents itself. But unlike Jirov, if Marciano saw a small opening or created one with his patented right-hand feint followed by a left hook bomb, it was over. The only man who ever went the full 15 with him in a championship bout was the immortal Ezzard Charles. In the rematch Charles was putting a licking on Rocky, but with the fight in danger of being stopped on cuts, Rocky went all out and smashed Ez. That may not be pure boxing skill, but it's the heart of a champion, and it's even rarer.

He didn't have a lot of tricks, but he used the few tricks he had exceedingly well, and his sheer relentlessness and fitness won him many a fight. The nickname "The Rock" is very appropriate, because many a slick-boxing heavy broke on him and was left a splintered wreck.

{amateur} · Post by **{amateur}** » 19 Mar 2004, 05:21

I say draw yeah both great great fighters but i would have to say that neither of them quite good enough to beat the other

.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 19 Mar 2004, 12:57

I'd guess Rocky's bigger punch might settle it, late on, after an X Rated war.