Disgrace

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:34

Johnson is too slow for Joe.... I still think Joe smashes him. He'd probably be on the back foot - but he will pick him off all day.

Hopkins caused so much problems cause of his still remarkable handspeed. Lacy, a much slower handed fighter - no problems, Kessler quicker, sharper - problems....Johnson falls into the Lacy category.... heavy handed.

As bizarre as it sounds, I think Roy Jones causes more problems than Johnson.

Chad Dawson vs Calzaghe would be Joe's final acid test against a style of fighter who could cause problems.

lvlarc · Post by **lvlarc** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:38

It looks like it's going to be Jones though doesn't it. Joe stands alot to lose and little to gain with Johnson, good shout. I'm hoping for Pavlik, the angle is already there with him fighting Lockett, not sure if he would relinquish his titles at 160 though...definetly has the frame to fight at 168/175, brings an undefeated record and will guarantee fireworks.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:40

stujones wrote:Johnson is too slow for Joe.... I still think Joe smashes him. He'd probably be on the back foot - but he will pick him off all day.

Hopkins caused so much problems cause of his still remarkable handspeed. Lacy, a much slower handed fighter - no problems, Kessler quicker, sharper - problems....Johnson falls into the Lacy category.... heavy handed.

As bizarre as it sounds, I think Roy Jones causes more problems than Johnson.

Chad Dawson vs Calzaghe would be Joe's final acid test against a style of fighter who could cause problems.

That's the idea, give another Lacy performance - if possible! IMO Johnson can still give Calzaghe the fight that Lacy was supposed to give Joe. Joe can pepper him an dlook good, but every couple of rds Glengoffe will nail him with a big right, and then try to work over the body. Think it'd be a good bruising fight with Johnson nailing Joe for his technical errors and Joe using his speed on the older slower man.

I have a feeling that Joe will look a little bit similar , vs Jones, to last night. Not a fight to flatter him.

I'd love to see Erdei sneak in sweet right hand counters and folow up with a left hook. That's the way to properly beat Joe. Not just use right hands like Kessler did, not just right cross, maul, head butt as Hopkins did. A nice right lead followed by a correct left hook. Reckon Erdei;s wells chooled enough and swift of hand enough to do it and cause Joe real problems.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:42

Johnson doesn't have the speed to take advantage of Joe's technical errors... yes he did Dawson - but Dawson is a different fighter.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:50

stujones wrote:Johnson doesn't have the speed to take advantage of Joe's technical errors... yes he did Dawson - but Dawson is a different fighter.

maybe true. however, johnson can block shots and drop in counters. lacy couldn't. he can also cut the ring down (calzaghe will do some work for him by circling to the left as he often does, into a right hand). Johnson comes to fight, puts in a full night's work, an old fighter who goes in there every bout to get stuck in.

Hopefully ppl really start gunning for Joe now. Roy Jones just isn't acceptable.

fist · Post by **fist** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:51

Autobarn wrote:The mugger was horrible and the technician tried to make it into a spoiling match which he succeeded in.

It was a vile, atrocious fight. Calzaghe looked so much like Hatton going into the big fight without many ideas.

Hopkins should retire. He contributes almost nothing to a fight, does just enough to nutralise the other guy without actually, ACTIVELY doing anything.

The fact is Calzaghe won. OK, I'll go with this. Calzaghe beat a 43 yo man by split decision. Very disappointing. I know Hopkins wasn't a willing partner but still, I thought Joe was meant to be adaptable. He still has dues to pay a light heavy. Why not go for Glen Johnson? An old bastard that fvcking fights a full night's work every fight, who throws clean shots, and who may have beaten a 25 yo big talent in Chad Dawson last weekend?

It's clear why Warren has saved all this for so long. Joe doesn't have a proper fighting style. It works vs guys who come at him, but not necessarily s guys he has to go after.

With all due respect mate you've always seemed subtley critical of Calzaghe. At the end of the day he is unbeaten and for me, his pinnacle was beating Kessler to unify the SMW division. From my point of view he is exciting to watch and fights a proper fight. He's always been adaptable and has many attributes. This fight tonight showed his ability to adapt. Hopkins proved what a difficult fighter he is to assess and box, but Joe started to get it right from the fourth round. I have never been a fan of Hopkins, but I'll give him his dues, he tried every trick in the book tonight - headbutts, acting, timeouts, and constant clinching (not to mention all the mind games before the fight).

My opinion of Hopkins is that all his nouse and his strategy to spoil reflects a limited fighter - he is great at countering, has strengtH, great defence, but thats it. He's limited and this appraoch he has of trying to utilise numerous illicit tactics simply exemplifies his limitations. For me, this explains why Hopkins was never going to be a boxer who could go undefeated - he does not have the full range when it comes to boxing. Most significant is his unwillingness to get into a full bodied scrap / fight - a boxer can never win every fight simply by trying to counter, steal, run and rob. Without question, he did better than I thought, but ultimately, Joe came to terms with the way the fight was going, ironically relaxed his guard and started to fight his natural fight.

Joe did not fight his best fight, largely down to Hopkins, but nonetheless he kept focussed and showed an indomitable desire to both FIGHT and WIN. Joe deserved the win against a very cagey and crafty fighter. Despite not fighting the best fight of his life, and despite fighting a spoiler and what some would describe as a cheater (ridiculous acting by Hopkins, not to mention the head butts) Joe kept focussed and went out to have a war. It amazies me that Hopkins was not warned for much, that he was allowed to clinch constantly....but Joe kept focussed, didnt complain, and did what he had to.

Joe came away with his first win on US soil, against a very crafty veteran, against a queationable judge, against an all american judging panel, at his first venture into LHW and won the fight, connecting and scoring more against Hopkins than any fighter before.

Well done to Joe. He's worked hard over the years, not always had the recognition, not always had access to the top money paying US fighters, but he has kept at it and proved that compared to the thousands upon thousands of boxers, he is one of the very best in the last 12 years.

Well done Joe. Give the man credit, his career is something that 99% of hopeful boxers will never achieve. He's trained hard and stayed committed. He also fights with heart and provides an abundance of entertainment and excitment.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:53

Well done to Joe. Picked a fight with Hopkins when the guy was 43 and nearly messed it up.

It's obvious they saw the age advantage and couldn't resist.

fist · Post by **fist** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:55

Autobarn wrote:Well done to Joe. Picked a fight with Hopkins when the guy was 43 and nearly messed it up.

It's obvious they saw the age advantage and couldn't resist.

Your being silly now mate, You know that Hopkins pulled out years ago and that Joe was signed up to fight him. Silly talk. Read my above post and take the blinkers off. Joe deserves credit for what was a very very difficult chess match against a man who threw every trick in the book at him.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:57

Autobarn wrote:Well done to Joe. Picked a fight with Hopkins when the guy was 43 and nearly messed it up.

It's obvious they saw the age advantage and couldn't resist.

Joe's no spring chicken himself

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 20 Apr 2008, 01:06

fist wrote:
Autobarn wrote:Well done to Joe. Picked a fight with Hopkins when the guy was 43 and nearly messed it up.

It's obvious they saw the age advantage and couldn't resist.
Your being silly now mate, You know that Hopkins pulled out years ago and that Joe was signed up to fight him. Silly talk. Read my above post and take the blinkers off. Joe deserves credit for what was a very very difficult chess match against a man who threw every trick in the book at him.

A lot of fighters with a seen it all and done it all before can outman or not make them themselves look ridiculous - Hopkins is one of those. Calzaghe got the job done - and well done to him.

That said I doubt Calzaghe's credentials of ever hitting an ATG list of the top 100 fighters. Sometimes we judge too harshly

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2008, 03:10

Calzaghe was terrible early on.

I think in a rematch he would win much more easily, but he showed Bernard a bit too much respect.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 20 Apr 2008, 03:19

rhino222 wrote:personally i had it 115-114 to hopkins, and that was with joe winning the last 2, i was not happy with the performance from either man and it was not a good advert for world class boxing, yes hopkins spoiled and tried to 'old man' calzaghe out of it, but bhop did land the cleaner work and at no time in the contest was hopkins in any trouble from punches.

joe calzaghe is a very fortunate cookie to get that decision tonight, and in america too. of course the fight was close, but i think the champion did enough in his own back yard. i was rooting for calzaghe but joe seemed to look a little ordinary and unable to cope with hopkins tactics...which hardly came as a surprise, hopkins always uses those tactics !!!

Have to agree, surprised Calzaghe got that. Fair play, Hopkins was very negative, but he landed the cleaner shots by far.

Ally-M1 · Post by **Ally-M1** » 20 Apr 2008, 04:17

I had Calzaghe winning but it was no vintage performance...

Hopkins cerainly didn't do enough to win, clean punches yes but not enough... Mauling, butting etc is not deserving of a victory... He was outworked which for me, was a likely outcome..

Granted its inevtiable that many will disagree but Joe has answered constant questions and for many - this is amazingly still not good enough.. Calzaghe has achived something 99% will never - I say congratulations and thank you for flying British Boxing's flag on the World Scene (however late)...

Anyway, thats my opinion - differing again but thats boxing :)

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2008, 05:06

Not a close fight at all.

Hopkins did barely anything except foul, excessively hold and the odd little amount of single shots.

I agree with the 116-111 score.

Hopkins Is not old school at all, you want old school watch James Toney fights.

Cortez needs to be dealt with, he rightfully not lets Hatton excessively hold and warns him, but no warnings for Hopkins.

lol at Hopkins faking a low blow and making the first shot worse than It was.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:01

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
rhino222 wrote:personally i had it 115-114 to hopkins, and that was with joe winning the last 2, i was not happy with the performance from either man and it was not a good advert for world class boxing, yes hopkins spoiled and tried to 'old man' calzaghe out of it, but bhop did land the cleaner work and at no time in the contest was hopkins in any trouble from punches.

joe calzaghe is a very fortunate cookie to get that decision tonight, and in america too. of course the fight was close, but i think the champion did enough in his own back yard. i was rooting for calzaghe but joe seemed to look a little ordinary and unable to cope with hopkins tactics...which hardly came as a surprise, hopkins always uses those tactics !!!
Have to agree, surprised Calzaghe got that. Fair play, Hopkins was very negative, but he landed the cleaner shots by far.

But not enough of them. Hopkins is a tremendously difficult fighter to beat and even more difficult to look good against. Who has looked good against Hopkins in the last ten years? I like Hopkins' desire and I think he was unlucky to lose against Taylor but tonight he got his just desserts. Hopkins was at his best in the first three rounds but even then in rounds two and three after the KD he was negative and his activity levels were low. Its not like he really hurt Joe apart from the KD.

To my mind Calzaghe by three but I really think Hopkins would have been in huge trouble had he not taken an absurdly long time for that low pat on his cup. He was really struggling before that. For that alone, Joe deserves a break.

Still a close fight, an ugly fight, but to call the decision a disgrace...like the original poster...well thats just the shandy talking.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:01

I had Calzaghe by 3-4 rounds. I thought Hopkins only won 3 rounds at bet (including the 2 pointer first).

He just didn't do enough. What Hopkins did do was amazing in my opinion for a 43 year old but that alone doesn't win him the fight in my opinion.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:07

like i said Earlier...

this decision could have gone EITHER way easily....

we Can Argue that Hopkins was more effective.

Calzaghe had a better work rate.

But Hopkins Nullified that work-rate and Fought at his own Pace.

Calzaghe did this. Hopkins did that. etc. etc.

Its just what Boxing Decisions are: Dumb and Lame.

After all this time, decisions dont make sense, and are sadly motivated by something other than the Boxing.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:22

Hopkins completely outclassed Joe and I gave BHOPs 9 rounds. Having said that there were a few close rounds I gave to Hops. Bbut all the quality punches came from BHOPs, Joe landed about 2-3 decent shots all night and Nard would smash Joe time and again when Calazage came inside. Bernard in his prime KOs Joe without a shadow of a doubt, his straight punches and timing are just a class apart.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:25

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Hopkins completely outclassed Joe and I gave BHOPs 9 rounds. Having said that there were a few close rounds I gave to Hops. Bbut all the quality punches came from BHOPs, Joe landed about 2-3 decent shots all night and Nard would smash Joe time and again when Calazage came inside. Bernard in his prime KOs Joe without a shadow of a doubt, his straight punches and timing are just a class apart.

And phenomenal nutrition comes out blindly swinging with a Bunce like contribution.

shakermaker · Post by **shakermaker** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:27

God a washed up Roy Jones Junior next..........Calzaghe should tempt out Benn, Eubank and Collins instead.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:28

don't call it a comeback wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Hopkins completely outclassed Joe and I gave BHOPs 9 rounds. Having said that there were a few close rounds I gave to Hops. Bbut all the quality punches came from BHOPs, Joe landed about 2-3 decent shots all night and Nard would smash Joe time and again when Calazage came inside. Bernard in his prime KOs Joe without a shadow of a doubt, his straight punches and timing are just a class apart.
And phenomenal nutrition comes out blindly swinging with a Bunce like contribution.

I've got to call it how I see it, I said before the fight it would be about quality versus quantity btu I didn't think BHOPs would have so much more quality shots than Joe. I picked Joe over Lacy and Kessler and picked Joe to take this 1 based on Nards age

I did give it to BHOPs 9-3 but I could 2,3,5 to Bernard and those rounds were damn close

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:40

Said it was going to be a tough fight and not an easy decision win for Calzaghe. Hopkins is to smart and crafty to ever get blown out, some people had their head up their arses.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:43

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Hopkins completely outclassed Joe and I gave BHOPs 9 rounds. Having said that there were a few close rounds I gave to Hops. Bbut all the quality punches came from BHOPs, Joe landed about 2-3 decent shots all night and Nard would smash Joe time and again when Calazage came inside. Bernard in his prime KOs Joe without a shadow of a doubt, his straight punches and timing are just a class apart.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:50

Terrible, messy fight, as most expected. I had Hopkins winning by a comfortable margin. He outclased Calzaghe and made Joe look truly awful. You could sense both Joe C and Enzo C knew it, too, in between rounds. Enzo knew that fight had slipped away from his son.

Calzaghe kept wading forwards throwing ineffective slaps and windmilling, while Hopkins picked him off with clever counters. Sure, B-Hop didn't do a great deal, but in my eyes he controlled the pace, controlled the range and made Calzaghe fight his fight. Joe C only started gaining success in the last two rounds. The rest of the way he was truly found wanting.

Never been a big fan of Hopkins, but I felt bad for him last night. He should have won that fight by UD.

don't call it a comeback · Post by **don't call it a comeback** » 20 Apr 2008, 07:01

Goz wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Hopkins completely outclassed Joe and I gave BHOPs 9 rounds. Having said that there were a few close rounds I gave to Hops. Bbut all the quality punches came from BHOPs, Joe landed about 2-3 decent shots all night and Nard would smash Joe time and again when Calazage came inside. Bernard in his prime KOs Joe without a shadow of a doubt, his straight punches and timing are just a class apart.

that includes rounds 13, 14 and 15 where Nard was dominant.