Disgrace

[hitman_hatton1]

i find meself wanting to see the roy jones fight actually.

jones has comeback with 3 wins.

obviously i'd like to see him rematch glen johnson and prove he's really back.

but he's still a name and has some class skills still. there's not much out there for calzaghe really.

perhaps the tarver-dawson winner or kelly pavlik (a middleweight). why not RJ.

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I would think Calazage-Pavlik would be the natural match

[Kilburn]

He just didn't do enough. What Hopkins did do was amazing in my opinion for a 43 year old but that alone doesn't win him the fight in my opinion.

I pretty much agree with Goz here. I think there is a tendency to believe Hopkins is being more effective than he is, just because he is so experienced and impossible to hurt even at 43.

Hopkins still has one of the best boxing brains there ever was, but he can't work hard enough to back it up now. In round 5 for example he barely landed a single punch.

I've always been a big fan of his but that low blow performance was frankly embarrassing. I don't think Calzaghe won clearly but I'm glad he got it.

[whiskey]

I think Hopkins came away with more respect from this fight than Joe.

I got to admit, i'm biased in the fact that i'm not Joe's biggest fan at all.

I dont like the way he's been managed and dont like the slaps and cuffs he throws - he's hardly Miguel Cotto when it comes to facing his dangerous contempories and throwing power shots is he ?

I see everyone's points so far and kind of agree with them all.

It just seemed to me, that when Popkins did his thing, he was streets ahead of Calzaghe but was unable to sustain it and eventually it left too many rounds 'up in the air' for judges to decide on.

And Enzo was absolutely good for nothing, screaming and shouting - very poor.

Joe's timing was key.....

...he let enough years pass before taking the plunge!

If Roy Jones is lined up next i'll vomit.

[jimglen]

you know I watched again this morning and it didn't look much different, Joe DID NOT DO ENOUGH to win and shouldn't have been given an 'un-effective' decision over such a longstanding champion, where at NO time was he controlling, hurting or BHop wasn't fighting back!

and just the same Hopkins (the throughback ), shouldn't get away with a history of these horrible, ugly, spoiler victories! You know a Draw wouldn't have been out of the question, forcing a rematch which BHop wouldn't relish and he go for the kill and Calzaghe would be much more sure and fight his usuall high volume work rate from the onset and win a more respectful & convincing victory.

anyhow 2 all-time greats - this is why Boxing is dying, it just isn't true and the average Sprt fan & general public are smart enough not to be fooled or interested!!!

[Goz]

you know I watched again this morning and it didn't look much different, Joe DID NOT DO ENOUGH to win and shouldn't have been given an 'un-effective' decision over such a longstanding champion, where at NO time was he controlling, hurting or BHop wasn't fighting back!

and just the same Hopkins (the throughback ), shouldn't get away with a history of these horrible, ugly, spoiler victories! You know a Draw wouldn't have been out of the question, forcing a rematch which BHop wouldn't relish and he go for the kill and Calzaghe would be much more sure and fight his usuall high volume work rate from the onset and win a more respectful & convincing victory.

anyhow 2 all-time greats - this is why Boxing is dying, it just isn't true and the average Sprt fan & general public are smart enough not to be fooled or interested!!!

1 - If Calzaghe didn't do enough then how on earth did Hopkins?

2 - The 'sport fans' should know that not all boxing matches between 2 great fighters end up as wild slugfests. Go watch WWF if you want guaranteed thrills.

[Mensa07]

gut feeling was Hopkins edged it, will watch again today and score RBR see if I come up with the same result.

Just checked out the maxboxing board as its nearly all American and was VERY surprised to see not only a lack of outrage, but near enough everyone who posted scored it for JC, quite handily in some cases.

I dont think Hopkins did himself any favours with the low blow 'acting' and getting on his bike later on, once you've turned the popular opinion against you all those close rounds will get scored the other way, regardless of how effectively you're fighting.

[Autobarn]

I think there is the subconscious thing going on where ppl can see how awkwardl effective Bernard has been, yet know that this just cannot go on any longer with Hopkins just coming in spoiling.

I mean, Bernard could probably fight just about anyone to a draw if he works so hard on merely spoiling an opponent. It has to stop at some point. Stop giivng him the decisions and maybe he'll just eff off and get the message!

[theHitman]

Come on guys. I am Swedish and have no beef wit heither fighter.

From an outsiders observation Calzaghe clearly won the fight.

Apart from a few straight punches (about 1 or 2 each round) Calzaghe did all the boxing in there. It should not be a surprise that Joe won on volume - he has always done that.

Apart from the 1st round there is no round that can be said to be clearly Hopkins' round. Hopkins' plan was this: "Get me just one of the refs in hand - and I'll spoil the fight so much that it is hard to score either way. And when that happens people tend to give each fighter some rounds because they want to be 'fair'".

Well, fact is that Hopkins won the first round. Rounds 2 and 3 were even and could go either way. Possibly round 2 leaning towards Hopkins and round 3 leaning towards Calzaghe. Round 4 again even
'ish, but with a slight upper hand for Calzaghe.

From round 5 and onwards Hopkins just grabbed and held onto Joe all he could trying to spoil the fight like that. However, when he did not manage to grab onto Joe, it was clearly Joe doing the boxing in there.

An ugly fight that brings memories of Ruiz.

However, although Hopkins surely would have lost every single round decisively if he had not managed to grab onto Joe so much, he still lost the fight clearly. He managed to make some rounds closer than they really should have been, but except round one he never really looked like he was trying to clearly win rounds - and he didn't.

[stujones]

I think there is the subconscious thing going on where ppl can see how awkwardl effective Bernard has been, yet know that this just cannot go on any longer with Hopkins just coming in spoiling.

I mean, Bernard could probably fight just about anyone to a draw if he works so hard on merely spoiling an opponent. It has to stop at some point. Stop giivng him the decisions and maybe he'll just eff off and get the message!

So when has Hopkins ever won a close decision? Only one I can think of (sort of) is him being ahead of DLH at the time of the stoppage.

[Goz]

Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

[Autobarn]

I think there is the subconscious thing going on where ppl can see how awkwardl effective Bernard has been, yet know that this just cannot go on any longer with Hopkins just coming in spoiling.

I mean, Bernard could probably fight just about anyone to a draw if he works so hard on merely spoiling an opponent. It has to stop at some point. Stop giivng him the decisions and maybe he'll just eff off and get the message!

So when has Hopkins ever won a close decision? Only one I can think of (sort of) is him being ahead of DLH at the time of the stoppage.

i felt the Wright fight was close but very hard to give to Wright.

What I mean is, the 2 Taylor bouts & the one with Calzaghe were close. Hopkins has done so much negative stuff that it's better for him to walk away. He is simply making everyone look bad yet not putting a full night's effort in himself. He's spoiling the image of potential money makers.

The networks should go NOWHERE near him.

[stujones]

Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

Just out of curosity... how many did you think Joe won CLEARLY.

[theHitman]

I think there is the subconscious thing going on where ppl can see how awkwardl effective Bernard has been, yet know that this just cannot go on any longer with Hopkins just coming in spoiling.

I mean, Bernard could probably fight just about anyone to a draw if he works so hard on merely spoiling an opponent. It has to stop at some point. Stop giivng him the decisions and maybe he'll just eff off and get the message!

So when has Hopkins ever won a close decision? Only one I can think of (sort of) is him being ahead of DLH at the time of the stoppage.

i felt the Wright fight was close but very hard to give to Wright.

What I mean is, the 2 Taylor bouts & the one with Calzaghe were close. Hopkins has done so much negative stuff that it's better for him to walk away. He is simply making everyone look bad yet not putting a full night's effort in himself. He's spoiling the image of potential money makers.

The networks should go NOWHERE near him.

I have to agree. Hopkins and Ruiz are not good for our sport which is competing with other combat sports. People do not want to see them, and there is a risk that they ruin the fighters they meet. Not in terms of boxing, but in the eyes of the public.

[theHitman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJo9x7DPDmE

Good analysis.

Here is Sweden everyone got similar scores.

9-3 was the consensus score.

[dondada]

I thought Calzaghe won quite clearly - close but clear, if you get my drift. Hopkins was looking to hold at every single opportunity and if one man a) makes almost all the running in the fight and b) lands twice as many punches as him...I can't see why people are whining.

[Eraserhead]

Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

It's amazing how differently people see these kind of fights. I gave Hopkins everything except the 5th, 9th and the 11th and 12th. He made Calzaghe look stupid early, pick-pocketed him through most of the middle rounds and then did fornicate all in the final two. Still enough for a comfortable win on my card. I was struggling to give JC any clear rounds besides the ones that Hopkins decided to do nowt in.

[fist]

Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

It's amazing how differently people see these kind of fights. I gave Hopkins everything except the 5th, 9th and the 11th and 12th. He made Calzaghe look stupid early, pick-pocketed him through most of the middle rounds and then did eff all in the final two. Still enough for a comfortable win on my card. I was struggling to give JC any clear rounds besides the ones that Hopkins decided to do nowt in.

Hopkins has never been hit as much. Hopkins lost his title because landing the odd right hand, constantly holding and pretendting to be hurt does not win fights (all the time). Joe outboxed him, landed more, was more aggressive, wanted to fight and basically beat Hopkins in his own backyard. yep Hopkins lost to a white boy, by at least three rounds.

[Fernzy]

Overall it was the toughest fight that Calzaghe's ever had.Hopkins took away the confidence with the early knockdown and proved to be a bit of a stylist nightmare for Joe.For me Joe was able to just do just enough with Hopkins fighting on the backfoot too much,due to not having the legs to work effectively for the full 12 rounds and Joe took advantage and showed the greater urgency.

Hopkins may have landed the cleaner punches but there just wasn't enough to win him rounds.He tried every trick in the book as he didn't have the staying power.

I felt Joe made things more difficult for himself than what he should have.I know Hopkins was a pain in the arse to fight but he just needed to establish that jab early on and take it from there.

[Eraserhead]

Good anaylysis Hitman and I agree that the first was the only round Hopkins won clearly.

It's amazing how differently people see these kind of fights. I gave Hopkins everything except the 5th, 9th and the 11th and 12th. He made Calzaghe look stupid early, pick-pocketed him through most of the middle rounds and then did eff all in the final two. Still enough for a comfortable win on my card. I was struggling to give JC any clear rounds besides the ones that Hopkins decided to do nowt in.

Hopkins has never been hit as much. Hopkins lost his title because landing the odd right hand, constantly holding and pretendting to be hurt does not win fights (all the time). Joe outboxed him, landed more, was more aggressive, wanted to fight and basically beat Hopkins in his own backyard. yep Hopkins lost to a white boy, by at least three rounds.

Never been slapped so much is probably closer to the truth. Joe looked amateurish in there. I think I counted one clean, crisp left hand land on Hopkins during the fight (something like the 9th round). He missed a ton of shots and resorted to windmilling punches most of the time. I really expected Calzaghe to look a lot better last night. Hopkins just bossed him from the get-go without doing all that much himself.

[fist]

It's amazing how differently people see these kind of fights. I gave Hopkins everything except the 5th, 9th and the 11th and 12th. He made Calzaghe look stupid early, pick-pocketed him through most of the middle rounds and then did eff all in the final two. Still enough for a comfortable win on my card. I was struggling to give JC any clear rounds besides the ones that Hopkins decided to do nowt in.

Hopkins has never been hit as much. Hopkins lost his title because landing the odd right hand, constantly holding and pretendting to be hurt does not win fights (all the time). Joe outboxed him, landed more, was more aggressive, wanted to fight and basically beat Hopkins in his own backyard. yep Hopkins lost to a white boy, by at least three rounds.

Never been slapped so much is probably closer to the truth. Joe looked amateurish in there. I think I counted one clean, crisp left hand land on Hopkins during the fight (something like the 9th round). He missed a ton of shots and resorted to windmilling punches most of the time. I really expected Calzaghe to look a lot better last night. Hopkins just bossed him from the get-go without doing all that much himself.

Joe beat Hopkins hands down, despite his constant cheating. Lol at him turning round and feigning injury - he needed time out, wanted to stop Joes momentum and was probably hoping Joe would get a point deducted. Joe stayed composed and landed more shots than anyone has against Hopkins. Hopkins did bugger all in the fight - constant holding and the off counter does not win fights. Hopkins must be gutted, he was sure he'd never lose to a white man and last ngiht he did in his own backyard.

[theHitman]

Overall it was the toughest fight that Calzaghe's ever had.Hopkins took away the confidence with the early knockdown and proved to be a bit of a stylist nightmare for Joe.For me Joe was able to just do just enough with Hopkins fighting on the backfoot too much,due to not having the legs to work effectively for the full 12 rounds and Joe took advantage and showed the greater urgency.

Hopkins may have landed the cleaner punches but there just wasn't enough to win him rounds.He tried every trick in the book as he didn't have the staying power.

I felt Joe made things more difficult for himself than what he should have.I know Hopkins was a pain in the arse to fight but he just needed to establish that jab early on and take it from there.

Nah, far far from the toughest he ever had.

First of all, most international observers had it around 9-3 in rounds. Not that close at all.

Secondly, Calzaghe and Hopkins both threw less punches than almost ever before in a Calzaghe fight. Hopkins' plan was to keep the fight at senior citizen pace and he sort of succeeded wit hthat. It wasn't enough to win, but it was enough for him to survive to 12 fairly intact.

While it was surely an akward fight. An ugly fight. and a slow paced (in Calzaghe terms) fight, it was far from the toughest he has ever had.
It probabyl ranks number 5 or so, behind Kessler (Calzaghe had to work much harder for that win and the punchstats from both were much higher than for the Hopkins fight), Woodhall, Eubanks were also tougher.

Hopkins was nothing special for Joe in terms of toughness - he was just akward and tried to take toughness and pace out of the fight.

[stujones]

I would like to see the definition of MOST!!!

Over 50% of observers from outside of the US scored it 9-3.... no chance.

[Eraserhead]

Hopkins has never been hit as much. Hopkins lost his title because landing the odd right hand, constantly holding and pretendting to be hurt does not win fights (all the time). Joe outboxed him, landed more, was more aggressive, wanted to fight and basically beat Hopkins in his own backyard. yep Hopkins lost to a white boy, by at least three rounds.

Never been slapped so much is probably closer to the truth. Joe looked amateurish in there. I think I counted one clean, crisp left hand land on Hopkins during the fight (something like the 9th round). He missed a ton of shots and resorted to windmilling punches most of the time. I really expected Calzaghe to look a lot better last night. Hopkins just bossed him from the get-go without doing all that much himself.

Joe beat Hopkins hands down, despite his constant cheating. Lol at him turning round and feigning injury - he needed time out, wanted to stop Joes momentum and was probably hoping Joe would get a point deducted. Joe stayed composed and landed more shots than anyone has against Hopkins. Hopkins did bugger all in the fight - constant holding and the off counter does not win fights. Hopkins must be gutted, he was sure he'd never lose to a white man and last ngiht he did in his own backyard.

Why keep bringing up the white/black issue? You've done that in two consecutive posts now. It's got nothing to do with it.

There's little point debating the scoring - it's clearly a fight with lots of differing opinions. Ultimately, I go on body language when all's said and done. Enzo C was shitting bricks in that corner through most of the rounds, and, at the end of the fight Joe C had that Mosley (vs De La Hoya 2) look on his face when the decision was announced.

[fist]

Never been slapped so much is probably closer to the truth. Joe looked amateurish in there. I think I counted one clean, crisp left hand land on Hopkins during the fight (something like the 9th round). He missed a ton of shots and resorted to windmilling punches most of the time. I really expected Calzaghe to look a lot better last night. Hopkins just bossed him from the get-go without doing all that much himself.

Joe beat Hopkins hands down, despite his constant cheating. Lol at him turning round and feigning injury - he needed time out, wanted to stop Joes momentum and was probably hoping Joe would get a point deducted. Joe stayed composed and landed more shots than anyone has against Hopkins. Hopkins did bugger all in the fight - constant holding and the off counter does not win fights. Hopkins must be gutted, he was sure he'd never lose to a white man and last ngiht he did in his own backyard.

Why keep bringing up the white/black issue? You've done that in two consecutive posts now. It's got nothing to do with it.

There's little point debating the scoring - it's clearly a fight with lots of differing opinions. Ultimately, I go on body language when all's said and done. Enzo C was shitting bricks in that corner through most of the rounds, and, at the end of the fight Joe C had that Mosley (vs De La Hoya 2) look on his face when the decision was announced.

Oh right you go on body language do you, right I see. lol. yep dont blame Enzo for being worried with the fight being in vegas with three us judges! But they saw sence. And yes I think it is very importnant to keep rubbing the salt in hopkins wounds regarding his racist comment. Very imortant indeed. To say he would never lose to a white man was dsgraceful. However, he was proved wrong and proved ignorant. Well done to Joe. Victorious and undefeated. Lovely.