Joe C Nearing The End

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 20 Apr 2008, 00:59

Always been a big fan of Calzaghe, and to this day feel he has wasted a lot of good years tucked away in Wales taking fights against sub standard opposition.

I wasn't overly impressed with Calzaghe tonight, and although I thought he sneaked it in the end, he was very nearly old manned out of the fight. I expected Calzaghe to jab, and move in and out with quick 1,2's, instead he had to resort to flinging a messy array of shots at hopkins, and basically won the fight for being the aggressor and on work rate alone.

I'm not sure if the move in weight was an issue, or that the knockdown buzzed him for a couple of rounds, giving him a mountain to climb, but going on tonight's performance he appears to be on the slide. Although to be fair, I don't think anyone would look good against Hopkins.

A fight against Pavlik would be a surprise, because I think he wants to retire with that unbeaten record, and my guess is he'll go the Jones Jr route.

Point is, we will soon be losing one of our elite fighters, and it will leave quite a big hole in the British boxing scene.

Young Amir and Haye have a lot to live up to, and I don't have full confidence in either of them at the moment.

Who is going to fill the void?

STP · Post by **STP** » 20 Apr 2008, 01:30

It's only really in the last couple of years he's become Superman-God.

He got criticism pre-Lacy, and coldness if his name was mentioned.

So yeah the Khan's, Haye's and Froch's have to try to match the Lacy-Bika-Manfredo-Kessler type magic or whatever, and I'm sure they will.

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 20 Apr 2008, 01:43

Given that Calzaghe has already said that he will not fight beyond 2008 then I think you may be onto something.

He has had a great career. Not exceptional in terms of the annuls of the history of the sport, when his talent should have been on offer much more to merit the fact, but still great.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 20 Apr 2008, 01:56

SticknMove wrote:Given that Calzaghe has already said that he will not fight beyond 2008 then I think you may be onto something.

He has had a great career. Not exceptional in terms of the annuls of the history of the sport, when his talent should have been on offer much more to merit the fact, but still great.

What fighters say & what they do are usually 2 different things.

I'm willing to bet that he fights on beyond 2008.

Boxing is such that it takes about a year to make fights & most champs don't seem to like fighting more than once or twice a year these days; so you can probably assume that after JC has had a rest & his next big fight is put together, you are probably looking at the back-end of 2008 or maybe even 2009.

tony3 · Post by **tony3** » 20 Apr 2008, 02:00

To be fair to Calzaghe, it was his first outing to America, he was fighting the cagiest boxer on the face of the earth and he was also in a different weight class.

I've just seen the fight and it was a dirty clinch fest (though Hopkins did set up some very nice sucker punches) but Calzaghe was the busier man and I also got the impression that if Hopkins had actually tried to box, Calzaghe would have made a fool of him.

What this does prove conclusively (whether you agree with the decision or nay) is that Calzaghe DOES belong in the same ring as Hopkins - something that many have doubted over the years.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2008, 05:10

People said this when Calzaghe looked ugly against Bika.

Both fouled and spoiled their way to losing.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:40

anyway, Joe needs to move on to a good fight, not Roy Jones.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 20 Apr 2008, 06:43

Guess Froch If he beats Inkin Is the best choice since Joe still has his Super Middle belts.

Plus guys like Dawson and Pavlik are busy with other opponents.

The_Don1 · Post by **The_Don1** » 20 Apr 2008, 08:23

Max Molyneux wrote:Guess Froch If he beats Inkin Is the best choice since Joe still has his Super Middle belts.

Plus guys like Dawson and Pavlik are busy with other opponents.

Joe will never fight Froch, he'll vacate if the WBC order that fight.

Joe will fight Jones Jr. next in Autumn at the millenium stadium, it's all about fighters with big reps for Joe now and Froch doesn't have one.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 08:33

The_Don1 wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Guess Froch If he beats Inkin Is the best choice since Joe still has his Super Middle belts.

Plus guys like Dawson and Pavlik are busy with other opponents.
Joe will never fight Froch, he'll vacate if the WBC order that fight.

Joe will fight Jones Jr. next in Autumn at the millenium stadium, it's all about fighters with big reps for Joe now and Froch doesn't have one.

Also, I can't see Calzaghe going back down in weight. Now that he's been at 175 he won't go back down. Strange really, as Joe seems better as a lean and mean super middle but he won't subject his body to it again.

I don't want Joe to fight Jones and retire. He has to build up some kind of light heavyweight legacy. OK his bank balance must be fine but you can't leave the division with only a SD over an aged Hopkins and a beating of a Jones who has aged less well.

I'd like to see him fight in America one more time as well. Maybe get someone to move up like Miranda or Pavlik.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 20 Apr 2008, 08:37

Autobarn wrote:
The_Don1 wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Guess Froch If he beats Inkin Is the best choice since Joe still has his Super Middle belts.

Plus guys like Dawson and Pavlik are busy with other opponents.
Joe will never fight Froch, he'll vacate if the WBC order that fight.

Joe will fight Jones Jr. next in Autumn at the millenium stadium, it's all about fighters with big reps for Joe now and Froch doesn't have one.
Also, I can't see Calzaghe going back down in weight. Now that he's been at 175 he won't go back down. Strange really, as Joe seems better as a lean and mean super middle but he won't subject his body to it again.

I don't want Joe to fight Jones and retire. He has to build up some kind of light heavyweight legacy. OK his bank balance must be fine but you can't leave the division with only a SD over an aged Hopkins and a beating of a Jones who has aged less well.

I'd like to see him fight in America one more time as well. Maybe get someone to move up like Miranda or Pavlik.

Is Calzaghe still intent on only fighting one more time? I would like to see a hopkins rematch or possibly him going after Tarver who is probably now best of the rest.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 08:47

SticknMove wrote:Given that Calzaghe has already said that he will not fight beyond 2008 then I think you may be onto something.

He has had a great career. Not exceptional in terms of the annuls of the history of the sport, when his talent should have been on offer much more to merit the fact, but still great.

Not sure I entirely agree..... Great career definately - and yes his talent should have been on offer much more. However, what would he have done - fought a prime Jones and a prime Hopkins. Only one winner I am afraid.

Joe's been outstanding, and outstandingly promoted.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 08:53

stujones wrote:
SticknMove wrote:Given that Calzaghe has already said that he will not fight beyond 2008 then I think you may be onto something.

He has had a great career. Not exceptional in terms of the annuls of the history of the sport, when his talent should have been on offer much more to merit the fact, but still great.
Not sure I entirely agree..... Great career definately - and yes his talent should have been on offer much more. However, what would he have done - fought a prime Jones and a prime Hopkins. Only one winner I am afraid.

Joe's been outstanding, and outstandingly promoted.

You can just imagine Frank sitting there. Demands for a big fight. Hmmm, let's leave it another year. Hmmm, not sure Joe can win a decision, shall we wait for the opponent to get a bit older?

I really want to see Joe make up for last night.
I also want to see Khan given a proper learning curve. They can't just keep certain fighters out of his way and make loads of money and win loads of titles. Speed and reflexes can only get you so far.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 20 Apr 2008, 09:03

josh fg wrote:
Autobarn wrote:
The_Don1 wrote: Joe will never fight Froch, he'll vacate if the WBC order that fight.

Joe will fight Jones Jr. next in Autumn at the millenium stadium, it's all about fighters with big reps for Joe now and Froch doesn't have one.
Also, I can't see Calzaghe going back down in weight. Now that he's been at 175 he won't go back down. Strange really, as Joe seems better as a lean and mean super middle but he won't subject his body to it again.

I don't want Joe to fight Jones and retire. He has to build up some kind of light heavyweight legacy. OK his bank balance must be fine but you can't leave the division with only a SD over an aged Hopkins and a beating of a Jones who has aged less well.

I'd like to see him fight in America one more time as well. Maybe get someone to move up like Miranda or Pavlik.
Is Calzaghe still intent on only fighting one more time? I would like to see a hopkins rematch or possibly him going after Tarver who is probably now best of the rest.

Not Tarver.... I would like to see maybe Joe wait a bit - lets have Jones in a half decent fight and then Calzaghe fight the winner. Tarver was so comprehensively beaten by Hopkins, not sure what he brings to the table.

Yes, so Jones has been also - but he is still the name, and has regrouped somewhat.

harrygreb · Post by **harrygreb** » 20 Apr 2008, 09:08

it has to be jones - later in the year - though i dont really feel excited about that fight which i think joe will win much easier than last night.
he wont go down to fight pavlik and why should he? he'd win handily against kelly anyway.
miranda is not a big enough name.

its gotta be old jonesy and out.

(strange how calzaghe's final two opponents names couldnt be more welsh sounding.)

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 11:38

How about this:

Wait for Jones to go on his Euro tour vs fighters like Marcus Beyer etc. Let Jones introduce himself/sell himself to a new market and let him pick up 1 or 2 decent wins. The tour can end with Calzaghe. Jones can make himself bigger FFS.

In the meantime, Calzaghe makes a title defense. Either a US network friendly, stylistically suitable one (Johnson - you have to eliminate Dawson/Tarver because they are committed to Showtime it seems). Or maybe a "gimme" like a moving up in weight Edison Miranda or Jermain Taylor or Allan Green. Have another in America, shine vs a more "made for opponent." Then have Jones in Wales.

Hate to see him just cash it in with Jones.

Jack2007 · Post by **Jack2007** » 20 Apr 2008, 11:45

Agreed, wasnt a great perfomance last night, but against Hopkins, who turned the fight into a wrestle, I would take a win all day.

Joe will definately make up for last night, who ever he faces.

One last cracking fight will seal the legacy!!!

Well sone Joe

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Apr 2008, 11:47

Autobarn wrote: Wait for Jones to go on his Euro tour vs fighters like Marcus Beyer etc. Let Jones introduce himself/sell himself to a new market and let him pick up 1 or 2 decent wins. The tour can end with Calzaghe. Jones can make himself bigger FFS.
.

Yes a win over the world famous Beyer will make RJJ far more famous in Britain

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 20 Apr 2008, 12:42

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Autobarn wrote: Wait for Jones to go on his Euro tour vs fighters like Marcus Beyer etc. Let Jones introduce himself/sell himself to a new market and let him pick up 1 or 2 decent wins. The tour can end with Calzaghe. Jones can make himself bigger FFS.
.
Yes a win over the world famous Beyer will make RJJ far more famous in Britain

what I mean is build up his credibility. European tour would be a nice niovelty and if Joe is the final part of the Euro tour, guess what, the promoter will mention Jones' "sensational" win over a former world champ etc etc. Setanta could show us the fights and build interest in it.

then again, Jones will be easier to deal with right now, when he has little credibility.

i just think Warren wants to kick a man while he is down. so he can say "jones avoided us for 7 years" and act the big boss. when in truth they wanted nothing to do with jones when he had his aura and his $5m per fight HBO deal.

clever promoting by warren but ppl like regular boxrec posters can see through it as transperent bollox.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 20 Apr 2008, 12:48

Autobarn wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Autobarn wrote: Wait for Jones to go on his Euro tour vs fighters like Marcus Beyer etc. Let Jones introduce himself/sell himself to a new market and let him pick up 1 or 2 decent wins. The tour can end with Calzaghe. Jones can make himself bigger FFS.
.
Yes a win over the world famous Beyer will make RJJ far more famous in Britain
what I mean is build up his credibility. European tour would be a nice niovelty and if Joe is the final part of the Euro tour, guess what, the promoter will mention Jones' "sensational" win over a former world champ etc etc. Setanta could show us the fights and build interest in it.

then again, Jones will be easier to deal with right now, when he has little credibility.

i just think Warren wants to kick a man while he is down. so he can say "jones avoided us for 7 years" and act the big boss. when in truth they wanted nothing to do with jones when he had his aura and his $5m per fight HBO deal.

clever promoting by warren but ppl like regular boxrec posters can see through it as transperent bollox.

I don't think the fight will sell any better with RJJ beating anyone other than a current rated champ, or a BHOPS, which isnt happening. RJJs coming off 3 wins, while not the cream of the crop aren't too bad, the Tito showing showed he has a bit left.

The fight is pretty big as it is and thats why Calazage wants it. RJJ can still pull 300-500k PPVs in the US, Calazage can still sell 100,000 tickets over here. Its a done deal

I think RJJ is shot but Im curious to see if he has anything left. Maybe he has 1 last hurrah

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 20 Apr 2008, 12:59

Joe is defintely slowing down, but he still has more than enough to cope with every single light heavyweight out there. Let's not forget that he was fighting an exceptional champion, at the first time up at LH, for the first time in the States, and he never looks good against counterpunchers and cagey types.

Outstanding performance given the circumstances, the style matchup, the opponent, and the slow start.

Matt W · Post by **Matt W** » 20 Apr 2008, 14:46

I think Jones would be a much easier fight than Hopkins for Joe. Joe spends too long doing little and laying on the ropes. Hope it's over here but would be surprised.

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:25

Hopkins has aged like Paulo Maldini..

Jones has aged like Andy Cole...

Thats the big difference.

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:26

Jones would have a punchers chance against Calzaghe imo. I think Joe beat Hopkins on work rate last night, Hop exposed certain flaws and landed the better punches. Jones has always carried more power than Hop, and could still KO Joe, or vice versa. I dont see a Calzaghe-Jones fight going the distance, and whilst I favour Joe it wouldnt surprise me if Jones KOd him

SticknMove · Post by **SticknMove** » 20 Apr 2008, 16:42

stujones wrote:
SticknMove wrote:Given that Calzaghe has already said that he will not fight beyond 2008 then I think you may be onto something.

He has had a great career. Not exceptional in terms of the annuls of the history of the sport, when his talent should have been on offer much more to merit the fact, but still great.
Not sure I entirely agree..... Great career definately - and yes his talent should have been on offer much more. However, what would he have done - fought a prime Jones and a prime Hopkins. Only one winner I am afraid.

Joe's been outstanding, and outstandingly promoted.

Actually Stu I think we are in agreement. Calzaghe's career will be defined by the absence of fighting prime fighters at the right time. Whether he would have lost or won is neither here nor there. He didn't face them within his own prime for all the reasons that Autobarn pointed out.

Time and space will always put a boxer's career into perspective. JC is a quality fighter and has had a great career, but I will always have difficulty placing him in any ATG list of fighters. And fortunately or unfortunately we do judge our best along those lines.