Matched tough....

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:02

...we've done threads like this before. So sorry for any revist to old ground but much is made of current fighters and their pristine records - Calzaghe a case in point.

Other fighters, whether because of age, nationality or profile have been matched harder and tougher. Some have passed the tests, others have failed.

Of course, the ultimate was Peter Rademacher fighting Floyd Patterson, the champion, on his debut. I also know Maskaev fought Oliver McCall very early and I look at young Bradley Pryce's hard apprenticeship and wonder why he's been so unprotected, but think he's learned from the route he's taken.

But could anyone explain the circumstances surrounding Terry Downes facing Dick Tiger in his third fight? True Tiger had lost a few on these shores at that point...but

Mental, surely.

Any other examples of unfathomable confidence in a new pro?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:10

Rafael Marquez - for his debut they threw him in with ex champ Victor Rabanales, who'd had over 50 fights, just lost his world title, and was far from shot. That was complete madness.

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:11

Lionel Butler who would go on to face Lennox Lewis in an eliminator, his first 2 bouts were against Phil Jackson and Riddick Bowe

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Apr 2008, 08:15

Demolition Daley - with no amateur experience to speak of, taking on Cuban exiles and Commonwealth Gold medalists as he serves his pro apprenticeship!

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 21 Apr 2008, 09:27

Oleg Maskaev....

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 21 Apr 2008, 09:45

I seem to remember that one of Nigel Benn's opponents, Lenzie Morgan, was a talented fella whose management team must have been sadists:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Only a middleweight really and ended up fighting some top, much heavier guys.

JC · Post by JC » 21 Apr 2008, 09:50

maybe not unfathomable as both were top amatuers but the two which always spring to mind for me are.

Marvis Fraizer

10th Pro Fight Joe Bugner
11th Larry Holmes
14th Fanso Banjo
15th James Quick Tillis
17th Bonecrusher Smith
18th Mike Tyson

and

Leon Spinks

6th Scott LeDoux
8th Muhammed Ali
9th Muhammed Ali
10th Gerrie Coetzee
14th Bernardo Mercardo
15th Larry Holmes
18th Carlos De Leon

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 21 Apr 2008, 10:12

Bonecrusher Smith had a tough debut against James Broad, who was a decorated amateur and seen as a possible future world champ. Think he'd just KO'd big amateur rival Marvis Frazier inside a round.

Broad's nickname was Broad Axe, later changed to Broad Ass, which sort of tells you where his career went.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Apr 2008, 10:19

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I seem to remember that one of Nigel Benn's opponents, Lenzie Morgan, was a talented fella whose management team must have been sadists:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Only a middleweight really and ended up fighting some top, much heavier guys.

I really enjoyed his ten rounder with Benn. It was just the sort of 12st baptism Benn needed.

He was tall and slim but as tough as old boots, with some pretty horrific body scarring from a house fire if I remember rightly.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 21 Apr 2008, 10:34

DavidPayne wrote:...we've done threads like this before. So sorry for any revist to old ground but much is made of current fighters and their pristine records - Calzaghe a case in point.

Other fighters, whether because of age, nationality or profile have been matched harder and tougher. Some have passed the tests, others have failed.

Of course, the ultimate was Peter Rademacher fighting Floyd Patterson, the champion, on his debut. I also know Maskaev fought Oliver McCall very early and I look at young Bradley Pryce's hard apprenticeship and wonder why he's been so unprotected, but think he's learned from the route he's taken.

But could anyone explain the circumstances surrounding Terry Downes facing Dick Tiger in his third fight? True Tiger had lost a few on these shores at that point...but

Mental, surely.

Any other examples of unfathomable confidence in a new pro?

Tiger had come over from Nigeria and looked solid but nothing special. Mickey Duff made the match and got it wrong. Tiger was special. Downes, too.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 21 Apr 2008, 11:08

Pete Rademacher

1st fight Floyd Patterson for the world heavyweight title. 2nd fight Zora Folley

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 21 Apr 2008, 13:02

TerribleTerry wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I seem to remember that one of Nigel Benn's opponents, Lenzie Morgan, was a talented fella whose management team must have been sadists:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Only a middleweight really and ended up fighting some top, much heavier guys.
I really enjoyed his ten rounder with Benn. It was just the sort of 12st baptism Benn needed.

He was tall and slim but as tough as old boots, with some pretty horrific body scarring from a house fire if I remember rightly.

That reminds me, i saw this fight the other day on Superfights on the Nuts tv. The preview always says Ali v Foreman on my tv so i never used to bother i just happened to catch it.

Tonight it's Nigel Benn vs David Noel, Mbayo Wa Mbayo & Jose Quinones

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 21 Apr 2008, 13:13

Shirow wrote:
TerribleTerry wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I seem to remember that one of Nigel Benn's opponents, Lenzie Morgan, was a talented fella whose management team must have been sadists:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Only a middleweight really and ended up fighting some top, much heavier guys.
I really enjoyed his ten rounder with Benn. It was just the sort of 12st baptism Benn needed.

He was tall and slim but as tough as old boots, with some pretty horrific body scarring from a house fire if I remember rightly.
That reminds me, i saw this fight the other day on Superfights on the Nuts tv. The preview always says Ali v Foreman on my tv so i never used to bother i just happened to catch it.

Tonight it's Nigel Benn vs David Noel, Mbayo Wa Mbayo & Jose Quinones

I dont think I have seen it since it originally aired although I have it on a Benn career set somewhere - will have to dig it out for a viewing soon. He gave Benn a decent arguement/test

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 21 Apr 2008, 14:15

Roman Greenberg.

Spud · Post by **Spud** » 21 Apr 2008, 14:20

Actually being matched tough and failing is the way I am taking this thread -

So with that -

Although he won't like me saying it and I fully understand on one hand why the fight was made and I like the lad - you have to say - Daivd Walker v Roman Karmazin.

Scrap · Post by **Scrap** » 21 Apr 2008, 14:55

After being stopped by Tiger Terry was asked who would he like to get in the Ring with next by a reporter. He replied the fornicating Matchmaker

Old bones Ian · Post by **Old bones Ian** » 22 Apr 2008, 12:19

Former champ Saensak Muangsurin , won the title in his 3rd fight, out of 20 contests nearly all of them were against world rated boxers

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 22 Apr 2008, 13:43

Old bones Ian wrote:Former champ Saensak Muangsurin , won the title in his 3rd fight, out of 20 contests nearly all of them were against world rated boxers

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

You could almost say the same of our own Paul Weir - when you are as small as Paul there isnt a deep pool of fighters to cut your teeth on, you just have to get stuck in at the deep end (well WBO level at least)..

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 22 Apr 2008, 15:01

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:I seem to remember that one of Nigel Benn's opponents, Lenzie Morgan, was a talented fella whose management team must have been sadists:

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hu ... &cat=boxer

Only a middleweight really and ended up fighting some top, much heavier guys.

Yeah, it was weird getting hold of his first fight with Castillo on one of those obscure US channels.

Matched tough....

Matched tough....

Re: Matched tough....