Pacman vs Naseem Hamed

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 18 Apr 2008, 13:44

Who wins this featherweight battle of explosive punchers?

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 18 Apr 2008, 15:48

Pacman is the better boxer of the 2 & I think that would be the difference.

Hamed was an awesome puncher with great athleticism, but as Barrera proved, he was a bit limited.

I'd say Manny would win on points.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 18 Apr 2008, 21:47

A lopsided points decision for the Pacman, but not without a few knockdowns in the first 4 rounds, and not necessarily all by him.

A candidate for FOTY, a barnburner royale.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 18 Apr 2008, 21:55

Syntax Error wrote:Pacman is the better boxer of the 2 & I think that would be the difference.

Hamed was an awesome puncher with great athleticism, but as Barrera proved, he was a bit limited.

I'd say Manny would win on points.

Is being outboxed by arguably the very best boxer in your weight class really a way to make the case for your limitations?

I'm not sure I would lean toward PacMan because unlike Barrera Manny would not go in leading with his cerebrum. He would likely take some chances and all Naseem needs is a few moments of poor defense or misplaced machismo to make it an unpredictable night for Manny.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 19 Apr 2008, 00:27

Risky, but only as a result of Hamed's vaunted power --- not because the two men are in the same class --- they aren't.

Pacquiao is the superior fighter &, just as significantly in a battle of punchers, is by far the more determined & tenacious. I think he steals Hamed's heart en route to a clean-cut, ten-count KO in seven. Possibly, Pacquiao would get floored along the way, as he can be careless. He'll get up. Hamed won't.

I am reminded of a friend who lived in Vegas, for a time. He was close to the fight scene, it was his business. He was telling me about a year ago of a discussion taking place in 2000. He overheard Gil Clancy talking about a young fighter, & felt compelled to interject when he heard something over-the-top. Clancy was speaking of a fighter named Manny Pacquiao, & how the kid was destined to not only compete with, but exterminate Morales & Barrera. Naturally, my friend wanted to emphasise how insane something like that sounded at the time. Clancy was pressed on the issue --- & stuck to his guns.

Nice call, Gil.

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 22 Apr 2008, 04:34

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Risky, but only as a result of Hamed's vaunted power --- not because the two men are in the same class --- they aren't.

Pacquiao is the superior fighter &, just as significantly in a battle of punchers, is by far the more determined & tenacious. I think he steals Hamed's heart en route to a clean-cut, ten-count KO in seven. Possibly, Pacquiao would get floored along the way, as he can be careless. He'll get up. Hamed won't.

I am reminded of a friend who lived in Vegas, for a time. He was close to the fight scene, it was his business. He was telling me about a year ago of a discussion taking place in 2000. He overheard Gil Clancy talking about a young fighter, & felt compelled to interject when he heard something over-the-top. Clancy was speaking of a fighter named Manny Pacquiao, & how the kid was destined to not only compete with, but exterminate Morales & Barrera. Naturally, my friend wanted to emphasise how insane something like that sounded at the time. Clancy was pressed on the issue --- & stuck to his guns.

Nice call, Gil.

what evidence is there hamed wouldnt get up everytime he went down he got up

Walker Smith Jr. · Post by **Walker Smith Jr.** » 22 Apr 2008, 07:28

By the time Hamed got to Barrera I think his heart wasn't into boxing anymore and he'd of quit soon after win or lose.
I think with Pacquiao's come forward style it would only be a matter of time before Hamed landed one on him and I believe he would of beat him mid to late rounds. Also Hamed had a really good chin to be fair to him he was often put down due to being off balance and was never really hurt during his career. Yes Pacquiao is a class act but prime Naz wins it for me.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 22 Apr 2008, 11:38

Walker Smith Jr. wrote:By the time Hamed got to Barrera I think his heart wasn't into boxing anymore and he'd of quit soon after win or lose.
I think with Pacquiao's come forward style it would only be a matter of time before Hamed landed one on him and I believe he would of beat him mid to late rounds. Also Hamed had a really good chin to be fair to him he was often put down due to being off balance and was never really hurt during his career. Yes Pacquiao is a class act but prime Naz wins it for me.

Move out of fvcking La-La land mate, pretty-please? Belcastro, some euro-who? pushed your prime Nas 94' all 12 rounds. Pacmans chin at 126 was even better, he hasn't been knocked down AT ALL at Feather or Super. Not by Barrera

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 22 Apr 2008, 12:21

Prime Hamed gives prime Pacquiao all kinds of problems and the two would trade at good half-dozen knockdowns before Pacquiao wins a somewhat close but clear decision.

Walker Smith Jr. · Post by **Walker Smith Jr.** » 22 Apr 2008, 12:43

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
Walker Smith Jr. wrote:By the time Hamed got to Barrera I think his heart wasn't into boxing anymore and he'd of quit soon after win or lose.
I think with Pacquiao's come forward style it would only be a matter of time before Hamed landed one on him and I believe he would of beat him mid to late rounds. Also Hamed had a really good chin to be fair to him he was often put down due to being off balance and was never really hurt during his career. Yes Pacquiao is a class act but prime Naz wins it for me.
Move out of fvcking La-La land mate, pretty-please? Belcastro, some euro-who? pushed your prime Nas 94' all 12 rounds. Pacmans chin at 126 was even better, he hasn't been knocked down AT ALL at Feather or Super. Not by Barrera

Since when was 94 naz's prime. 97 Hamed beats prime Pacquiao for me. Anyway Belcastro lost every round and was very early in Hameds career.
If Hamed connects with Pacmans chin he goes down IMO and the way he fights Naz would get him eventually.

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 22 Apr 2008, 13:52

Walker Smith Jr. wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
Walker Smith Jr. wrote:By the time Hamed got to Barrera I think his heart wasn't into boxing anymore and he'd of quit soon after win or lose.
I think with Pacquiao's come forward style it would only be a matter of time before Hamed landed one on him and I believe he would of beat him mid to late rounds. Also Hamed had a really good chin to be fair to him he was often put down due to being off balance and was never really hurt during his career. Yes Pacquiao is a class act but prime Naz wins it for me.
Move out of fvcking La-La land mate, pretty-please? Belcastro, some euro-who? pushed your prime Nas 94' all 12 rounds. Pacmans chin at 126 was even better, he hasn't been knocked down AT ALL at Feather or Super. Not by Barrera
Since when was 94 naz's prime. 97 Hamed beats prime Pacquiao for me. Anyway Belcastro lost every round and was very early in Hameds career.
If Hamed connects with Pacmans chin he goes down IMO and the way he fights Naz would get him eventually.

The "way" he fights? Dude, have you actually WATCHED a Boxing fight? EVER?

Because he WASN'T that good in his prime. Nas's reached the height of his overall ability in '95, all his trademarks, ie the combo-punching, fast footwork faded and near PBF-grade defensive skills were exhibited in their fullest in that year.

Now as you don't watch much Boxing, one of the ways you can tell, is by looking at his record. You'll note that '95 was the only year he wasn't decked or driven the distance. Afterwards, those skills all began to deteriorate, starting with him getting decked by Alicea the following summer, and ending of course with that disgraceful, plodding display of ineptitude against Barrera.

Next, what was Hamed's greatest achievement that summer of '95? Yes, Steve Robinson in Cardiff. Robinson, a British bum who'd hardly if ever fought outside the UK, carrying some no-name belt your Dad would have been ashamed to wear, who'd have been lucky to scrape 10th place in the US rankings. Morales, Pacquaio or Barrera would have blown this chump out in 4, not the 8 rounds that Hamed needed.

The following 2 years showed Hamed push over through a bunch of over the hill farts, rookies and local yokels. Some competition. About the only win I give him real credit for was also his hardest, against Medina in late '96. Even THEN, the Ref yanked Medina prematurely in the 11th.

Then of course, the rot REALLY started setting in in '98 when Mcullough took him 12 rounds, with Hamed throwing a couple of sucker punches every damn round, then spending the rest running the hell away from him, a pattern he repeated all damn night.

Ahh, fvck the rest. Just watch some of his damn matches.

Tinie Tempah · Post by **Tinie Tempah** » 22 Apr 2008, 14:43

augie sanchez was a good fighter..and if naz hadnt taken his training as a complete joke (he barely trained at all for the fight) then the outcome could have been a lot different..

Walker Smith Jr. · Post by **Walker Smith Jr.** » 22 Apr 2008, 14:48

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
Walker Smith Jr. wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote: Move out of fvcking La-La land mate, pretty-please? Belcastro, some euro-who? pushed your prime Nas 94' all 12 rounds. Pacmans chin at 126 was even better, he hasn't been knocked down AT ALL at Feather or Super. Not by Barrera
Since when was 94 naz's prime. 97 Hamed beats prime Pacquiao for me. Anyway Belcastro lost every round and was very early in Hameds career.
If Hamed connects with Pacmans chin he goes down IMO and the way he fights Naz would get him eventually.
The "way" he fights? Dude, have you actually WATCHED a Boxing fight? EVER?

Because he WASN'T that good in his prime. Nas's reached the height of his overall ability in '95, all his trademarks, ie the combo-punching, fast footwork faded and near PBF-grade defensive skills were exhibited in their fullest in that year.

Now as you don't watch much Boxing, one of the ways you can tell, is by looking at his record. You'll note that '95 was the only year he wasn't decked or driven the distance. Afterwards, those skills all began to deteriorate, starting with him getting decked by Alicea the following summer, and ending of course with that disgraceful, plodding display of ineptitude against Barrera.

Next, what was Hamed's greatest achievement that summer of '95? Yes, Steve Robinson in Cardiff. Robinson, a British bum who'd hardly if ever fought outside the UK, carrying some no-name belt your Dad would have been ashamed to wear, who'd have been lucky to scrape 10th place in the US rankings. Morales, Pacquaio or Barrera would have blown this chump out in 4, not the 8 rounds that Hamed needed.

The following 2 years showed Hamed push over through a bunch of over the hill farts, rookies and local yokels. Some competition. About the only win I give him real credit for was also his hardest, against Medina in late '96. Even THEN, the Ref yanked Medina prematurely in the 11th.

Then of course, the rot REALLY started setting in in '98 when Mcullough took him 12 rounds, with Hamed throwing a couple of sucker punches every damn round, then spending the rest running the hell away from him, a pattern he repeated all damn night.

Ahh, fvck the rest. Just watch some of his damn matches.

Yeah sorry you know everything

Basically everyone Hamed fought was either a has-been or never-been! where have us brits heard that before

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 22 Apr 2008, 19:38

Nah, if the "Prince" shows up for the fight taking it seriously (The Training i mean, not the antics in the ring). I have to side with Naz.

That Hidden power and Speed he has would be enough

Tinie Tempah · Post by **Tinie Tempah** » 22 Apr 2008, 21:15

i think so as well..naz wanted to fight MAB or morales in place of the augie sanchez fight but they both didnt wanna fight him..also naz was 1/5 to beat barrera, and considering MAB is considered 1 of the best mexican boxers ever naz must have been special to warrant being such a heavy favourite..i think its a shame naz didn't train properly and beat MAB n then maybe beat morales and go down as a proper legend, instead people won't give him the the credit he should have got :(

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 23 Apr 2008, 04:13

observer1 wrote:Nah, if the "Prince" shows up for the fight taking it seriously (The Training i mean, not the antics in the ring). I have to side with Naz.

That Hidden power and Speed he has would be enough

His power and speed were hardly 'hidden', they were on full display at least 10 times on Sky PPV back in the 90's!!

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 23 Apr 2008, 08:36

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
observer1 wrote:Nah, if the "Prince" shows up for the fight taking it seriously (The Training i mean, not the antics in the ring). I have to side with Naz.

That Hidden power and Speed he has would be enough
His power and speed were hardly 'hidden', they were on full display at least 10 times on Sky PPV back in the 90's!!

.. on a serious note though...
Watch the Kelley Fight, His Jumping around the Ring with with the occasinoak Hook Knocked Kelly flat onto the Floor. With even Kelley acknowledging Naz's Power

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 23 Apr 2008, 13:11

observer1 wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
observer1 wrote:Nah, if the "Prince" shows up for the fight taking it seriously (The Training i mean, not the antics in the ring). I have to side with Naz.

That Hidden power and Speed he has would be enough
His power and speed were hardly 'hidden', they were on full display at least 10 times on Sky PPV back in the 90's!!
.. on a serious note though...
Watch the Kelley Fight, His Jumping around the Ring with with the occasinoak Hook Knocked Kelly flat onto the Floor. With even Kelley acknowledging Naz's Power

"Watch the Kelley Fight"???

:)

Mate, that isn't some obscure little 50-seat fight Hamed put on early in his career in some backwater gym in the North of England, that was the 2nd biggest fight of his miserable career!! Do you HONESTLY think I haven't seen it?

I wrote a mini-article on it in this very forum!!

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 23 Apr 2008, 19:09

Jaybee From The Castle wrote:
observer1 wrote:
Jaybee From The Castle wrote: His power and speed were hardly 'hidden', they were on full display at least 10 times on Sky PPV back in the 90's!!
.. on a serious note though...
Watch the Kelley Fight, His Jumping around the Ring with with the occasinoak Hook Knocked Kelly flat onto the Floor. With even Kelley acknowledging Naz's Power
"Watch the Kelley Fight"???

:)

Mate, that isn't some obscure little 50-seat fight Hamed put on early in his career in some backwater gym in the North of England, that was the 2nd biggest fight of his miserable career!! Do you HONESTLY think I haven't seen it?

I wrote a mini-article on it in this very forum!!

Hmm, i guess you're the Guy who falls for Hype and anticipation rather than the actuall Boxing performance

Tinie Tempah · Post by **Tinie Tempah** » 23 Apr 2008, 22:14

no other boxer could not train for a fight against someone who is regarded as one of the best SF's ever n lose by 4 rounds. You don't have much of a clue if you think naz had a miserable career and was no good. Naz at his best who was motivated beats barrera, and probably morales and pacman aswel although those fights could go either way

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 24 Apr 2008, 04:13

Tinie Tempah wrote:no other boxer could not train for a fight against someone who is regarded as one of the best SF's ever n lose by 4 rounds. You don't have much of a clue if you think naz had a miserable career and was no good. Naz at his best who was motivated beats barrera, and probably morales and pacman aswel although those fights could go either way

Oh, so first he beats them, then he MIGHT beat them. Barrera, Morales and Pacquaio, that is. Beaten by Hamed. :)

Tell me, how is Elvis nowadays?

Tinie Tempah · Post by **Tinie Tempah** » 24 Apr 2008, 05:07

a trained naz will beat barrera for sure, and the majority of the time the other 2, but because of the nature of the fights its not 100%, due to there being a lot of knockdowns

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 25 Apr 2008, 00:04

i think naz was a huge challenge shame he stopped listening to ingle as i think he was the perfect trainer for him i think if he trained hard he has the ability to beat most FW SFW around obviously there is a few i do not believe he could beat

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 25 Apr 2008, 04:05

"Blah blah blah, If Naz took boxing seriously he'd have beaten Muhammad Ali"

Yeah, and if Tye Fields learned how to box he'd be an unstoppable force. The point is he was who he was, he got his ass smashed by a post-loss Barrera and Prime Naz vs. Prime Barrera he still loses. Prime Naz vs. Prime Pacquiao he still loses. Close in both but still, He LOSES!!! And this is coming from a fan of his...

Jaybee From The Castle · Post by **Jaybee From The Castle** » 25 Apr 2008, 04:33

Diamond WEAPON wrote:"Blah blah blah, If Naz took boxing seriously he'd have beaten Muhammad Ali"

Yeah, and if Tye Fields learned how to box he'd be an unstoppable force. The point is he was who he was, he got his ass smashed by a post-loss Barrera and Prime Naz vs. Prime Barrera he still loses. Prime Naz vs. Prime Pacquiao he still loses. Close in both but still, He LOSES!!! And this is coming from a fan of his...

Being a fan of Naz is one thing, and I respect that fully. A WORSHIPPER of Naz deserves nothing but to be disregarded for his blatant dismissal of the fundamentals of Boxing.

Naz didn't completely apply himself because he KNEW he was far in over his head. He barely escaped being outpointed by Soto 2 years earlier by out-psyching him with that wrestling manoeuvre. Sheer luck he wasn't DQ'ed, but from that point, the writing was on the wall. And Barrera was - and still is - a LOT better than Soto. Training would have given him, what? Another round or at a stretch, two. Barrera outpunched him 10 rounds to 2, that's then a 8-4 fight, with MAB still winning. And we all know what Pac did to MAB.

I'm a huge Erik Morales fan but at the end of the day, I love the guy about as much as one hetero male can another who isn't a relation, but Prime Erik would get outpointed by a 130Ib Mayweather. PBF is simply the better man, as he has proven time and again.