...if Calzaghe beat Pavlik rather than Jones next would he be the Ring/Consensus/Linear champion at Super-Middle and Light-Heavyweight simultaneously and hold a victory over the man at Middleweight?
It doesn't quite match Armstrong's record etc but it would have a lot of credibility
Personally, Jones is the easiest fight - theoretically, but Pavlik brings a lot of potential kudos. It's a pity Chris Byrd couldn't beat Tarver in the interim, because victory over Byrd would also carry weight, given his record at heavyweight.
Stylistically, Pavlik would be the best fight for the fans. Joe's better when fighters come to him. Tarver and Jones would both be potentially ugly fights.
Joking aside, and its a technicality but....
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DavidPayne
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: 11 Mar 2004, 11:00
Good thread. Glad you brought up Byrd as well as the others.
Now, imagine this: as you say DP, Calzaghe beating the consensus middleweight champ Pavlik while simultaneously holding the main belts at 168 and 175.
This thread has made me think:
Now how about this one for the books: beat Jones AND Byrd, both of whom were PAPER CHAMPS at heavyweight. Hopw easy would those bouts to be to promote?
Now, imagine this: as you say DP, Calzaghe beating the consensus middleweight champ Pavlik while simultaneously holding the main belts at 168 and 175.
This thread has made me think:
Now how about this one for the books: beat Jones AND Byrd, both of whom were PAPER CHAMPS at heavyweight. Hopw easy would those bouts to be to promote?
I agree. Byrd is a great inclusion. It annoys the marmite out of me that Chris has only now decided to move to 175 at his age. Had he done this from the start, with his power at that weight (provided his stamina isn't shot) he'd beat virtually anyone at 175.
Arum would never risk Pavlik at 168 in 2008, or even 2009, but that would be the fight I'd prefer.
Unfortunately Kelly is now busy until 2009, so it's a moot point, but I wasn't at all impressed with his display against Taylor. Even with HBO's biased commentary, I thought he looked a bit ineffective as his power (his best weapon) appeared to be nullified at 166. Taylor did box conservatively, but I had Pavlik only winning by two points.
Arum would never risk Pavlik at 168 in 2008, or even 2009, but that would be the fight I'd prefer.
Unfortunately Kelly is now busy until 2009, so it's a moot point, but I wasn't at all impressed with his display against Taylor. Even with HBO's biased commentary, I thought he looked a bit ineffective as his power (his best weapon) appeared to be nullified at 166. Taylor did box conservatively, but I had Pavlik only winning by two points.
HBO have been hyping Pavlik and they have been hyping Joe. So maybe they want it. If they want it, things really get moving.
HBO will want to see Pavlik in a superfight sooner or later. Abraham looks the man, if he beats Miranda in Florida. However, if Abraham loses, I think Pavlik moves up to fight Joe.
I think Pavlik tries to get Joe at 168, make Joe weaken himself and try and knock him out. I don't think Joe's legs are there properly at 168 anymore.
HBO will want to see Pavlik in a superfight sooner or later. Abraham looks the man, if he beats Miranda in Florida. However, if Abraham loses, I think Pavlik moves up to fight Joe.
I think Pavlik tries to get Joe at 168, make Joe weaken himself and try and knock him out. I don't think Joe's legs are there properly at 168 anymore.
I don't know whether it's true or not. It would be nice if someone could ask either Joe or Chris. Here are some links that support it:Gray-Fox wrote:It has been said, but one of our local amateur know-it-alls has seriously thrown doubt over the claim.Wales wrote:Calzaghe fought Byrd in Ams didnt he?
http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/Joe_Calzaghe
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Joe_Calzaghe (says it happened in 1992)
Eastside Boxing Forum (one says it was in Italy - someone else says it was proven to be false)
Boxingforum.com (says Byrd was easily defeated by Calzaghe just after the 1992 Olympics)
Bernard Hopkins for me.
Pavlik is the other legacy option, but for me is not quite up there in terms of "proveness" yet... is Pavlik better than Kessler for example, both world class, both (were) more than paper champion - but neither have been particularly long reigning ones.
I said Joe needed to win decisively to prove to me, and I hope to others, that a Hopkins vs Calzaghe 2002 would go Joe's way. He didn't, but maybe a second chance is what he needs.
Plus - this lack of giving a fighter a rematch is a bit bugging.. hell, even Ottke gave Brewer a rematch. Joe's had 2/3 close shaves (Reid, Hopkins for sure, Kessler for me)... he's also had one fight end a tad controvesially (Mitchell) and one fight in which a decent opponent had far from ideal preperations (Eubank).... any rematches offered to these?
Struggling to think of any great fighter who didn't give a world class fighter a rematch in either a world title fight, or a significant fight. Is it only Lennox Lewis in recent times who has failed to give a fighter a rematch, following him BEATING the opponent. DLH, Hopkins, Lopez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Winky Wright, Mosley, Mayweather, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Alvarez, Leonard, Hagler, etc etc etc... all did - after winning their first fight.
Only one I can think off the top of my head is Tito Trinidad.
Pavlik is the other legacy option, but for me is not quite up there in terms of "proveness" yet... is Pavlik better than Kessler for example, both world class, both (were) more than paper champion - but neither have been particularly long reigning ones.
I said Joe needed to win decisively to prove to me, and I hope to others, that a Hopkins vs Calzaghe 2002 would go Joe's way. He didn't, but maybe a second chance is what he needs.
Plus - this lack of giving a fighter a rematch is a bit bugging.. hell, even Ottke gave Brewer a rematch. Joe's had 2/3 close shaves (Reid, Hopkins for sure, Kessler for me)... he's also had one fight end a tad controvesially (Mitchell) and one fight in which a decent opponent had far from ideal preperations (Eubank).... any rematches offered to these?
Struggling to think of any great fighter who didn't give a world class fighter a rematch in either a world title fight, or a significant fight. Is it only Lennox Lewis in recent times who has failed to give a fighter a rematch, following him BEATING the opponent. DLH, Hopkins, Lopez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Winky Wright, Mosley, Mayweather, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Alvarez, Leonard, Hagler, etc etc etc... all did - after winning their first fight.
Only one I can think off the top of my head is Tito Trinidad.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 45233
- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
Calzaghe is too close to retirement, and why be in another dull fight with Hopkins. Bernard makes every fight he is in completely turgid.stujones wrote:Bernard Hopkins for me.
Pavlik is the other legacy option, but for me is not quite up there in terms of "proveness" yet... is Pavlik better than Kessler for example, both world class, both (were) more than paper champion - but neither have been particularly long reigning ones.
I said Joe needed to win decisively to prove to me, and I hope to others, that a Hopkins vs Calzaghe 2002 would go Joe's way. He didn't, but maybe a second chance is what he needs.
Plus - this lack of giving a fighter a rematch is a bit bugging.. hell, even Ottke gave Brewer a rematch. Joe's had 2/3 close shaves (Reid, Hopkins for sure, Kessler for me)... he's also had one fight end a tad controvesially (Mitchell) and one fight in which a decent opponent had far from ideal preperations (Eubank).... any rematches offered to these?
Struggling to think of any great fighter who didn't give a world class fighter a rematch in either a world title fight, or a significant fight. Is it only Lennox Lewis in recent times who has failed to give a fighter a rematch, following him BEATING the opponent. DLH, Hopkins, Lopez, Barrera, Morales, Pacquiao, Winky Wright, Mosley, Mayweather, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Alvarez, Leonard, Hagler, etc etc etc... all did - after winning their first fight.
Only one I can think off the top of my head is Tito Trinidad.
Erdei has fought nothing but rubbish these last few years and isn't in the mixHorse wrote:I hate to keep banging on about this but... Erdei is the lineal champion at Light Heavyweight.
Hopkins was a close fight, could have gone either way, Calzaghe stands to gain nothing by fighting him again. I've also a feeling we'd have a Hopkins v Taylor type situation if they did rematch and nothing would become any clearer
Wrists, I give Calzaghe lots of credit for beating a young, strong and skilled champ like Kessler. It was very impressive the way he changed his style mid-fight to pull away. But the fight was close and tough, Joe has been nothing but complimentary towards Kessler since and i'm sure would not be too keen on fighting him again as he had to be at 100% to win
He is still the lineal champion. If people don't like the way the lineal title works then they shouldn't mention it. Calzaghe is not the lineal champ at Light heavy.Lenny wrote:Erdei has fought nothing but rubbish these last few years and isn't in the mixHorse wrote:I hate to keep banging on about this but... Erdei is the lineal champion at Light Heavyweight.