If Wlad was British...

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 08:41

and the World Cruiserweight champ, Daveed Hayev from the Ukraine was calling out our fighter and confronting him in public, wouldn't the response be who does this frickin' chancer think he is, he's lost to a 40 year old bloke, and if Hayev wants a title tilt he needs to beat some ranked fighters and earn his shot. It's not enough to beat a very fringe contender with a padded record and then proclaim the HW division owes you a living.

Just a thought. I think.

And I'm a massive Haye fan.

DavidPayne · Post by **DavidPayne** » 28 Apr 2008, 08:46

What matters is.....Haye is connecting his name to the top man.

Whether you want to see him knocked out or knock Wlad out, suddenly he's making noise.

Very good marketing/profile work.

He will very quickly become the opponent of choice for US and Europe for different reasons.

If he knocks out one or two in the interim, it becomes a big fight.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 28 Apr 2008, 08:50

Quite right, but I'm unashamed of my Pro British stance in all matters.

Wlad's a bum and he's gonna get KTFO by Haye when he stops hiding behind mandatories

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:10

12 months ago everybody would've laughed if you'd mentioned David Haye and Wladimir Klitschko in the same sentence. Now, though, with a combination of what Haye's done in the ring as a cruiser and the stuff he's come out with since declaring he's going to heavy, Haye-Klitschko is the fight everyone is talking about. Not just Brits. Americans, too. It's the only fight at heavyweight that is genuinely intriguing.

What should Haye do as an alternative? Take the Joe Calzaghe route and stick behind a WBO title for over a decade, content to just CLAIM he's number one? Or maybe get nearly 40-plus fights like Hatton before challenging the main man. I'm not saying those guys were wrong to do what they did - they've proven themselves as great fighters - but Haye's attitude to risks is incredibly refreshing.

Klitschko-Haye is the ONLY truly interesting fight at heavyweight right now and I think both men know that.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:22

It smacks of 'shit or bust' to me. Wlad's chin is Waterford Crystal so Haye fancies his chances. Would Haye be calling out Lennox if he were still the Top Man?

Would you fancy Haye against Valuev? Peter? Chagaev? Ruiz? Povetkin?

Yet he expects to leapfrog them all and face the No.1 in the division straight away.

It's ludicrous.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:30

deadpan wrote:It smacks of 'shit or bust' to me. Wlad's chin is Waterford Crystal so Haye fancies his chances. Would Haye be calling out Lennox if he were still the Top Man?

Would you fancy Haye against Valuev? Peter? Chagaev? Ruiz? Povetkin?

Yet he expects to leapfrog them all and face the No.1 in the division straight away.

It's ludicrous.

He doesn't expect to fight him. He is just making a name for himself in the Heavyweight division by calling out the number one fighter the division.

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:35

deadpan wrote:It smacks of 'shit or bust' to me. Wlad's chin is Waterford Crystal so Haye fancies his chances. Would Haye be calling out Lennox if he were still the Top Man?

Would you fancy Haye against Valuev? Peter? Chagaev? Ruiz? Povetkin?

Yet he expects to leapfrog them all and face the No.1 in the division straight away.

It's ludicrous.

By that reckoning...

Joe Calzaghe should'nt have been allowed to challenge Bernard Hopkins in his first fight at 175.

Manny Pacquaio shouldn't be fighting David Diaz in his first fight at lightweight.

Ricky Hatton shouldn't have been allowed to box Luis Collazo in his first fight at 147.

What about if Kelly Pavlik decides to move up to super-middle and fight Joe Calzaghe? Should he earn his shot first by beating Sakio Bika?

It's a common thread in boxing. People like seeing fights between world champions and division number ones.

Hopkins-Tarver
Mayweather-De La Hoya
De La Hoya-Sturm
Judah-Spinks
Jones-Ruiz
Jones-McCallum
Jones-Toney

Each time Jones stepped up a division he went straight at the world title. It happens all the time.

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:35

Nah, I think this is bollocks. Regardless of nationality we would be able to accept that the premier fighter at cruiser is capable of upsetting our William Klinton. We would be cautious of Hayev because we know he looks useful and is obviously a threat but that ultimately he may deserve his chance.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:52

Obviously it's not a case of fighters being 'allowed' to go up in weight and get shot straight off. But I think the fighter in the higher division reserves the right to ask that the new kid on the block prove themselves at the weight.

Does beating Bonin achieve that?

And I ask again would Haye have confronted a peak Lennox?

Bard of Boxrec · Post by **Bard of Boxrec** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:54

i dont think so, lennox obv would have been a highly different prospect to fight. The point is Haye knows that klitchsko is there for the taking and he's obviously confident he can land first, which he should be.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 09:59

So it is 'shit or bust' then.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:02

Well if he said okay while you take on manditory bums I'll fight two top 10 heavys then we'll fight I'd think fair enough you've got bollox fill your boots!

So he got beaten once he also beat the best Cruzer in Mormeck and potentially the most dangerouse in Macaranelli

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:08

Don't get me wrong, I like Haye a lot and would always root for him. I just prefer him when he's being honest and open, which boxers so rarely are, rather than opting for the time honoured smack talk about bums getting knocked the eff out.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:09

Would you fancy Haye against Valuev? Peter? Chagaev? Ruiz? Povetkin?

Maybe Valuev 50/50, Yes for Peter, No for Chagaev and Ruiz and yes for Povetkin.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:10

deadpan wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like Haye a lot and would always root for him. I just prefer him when he's being honest and open, which boxers so rarely are, rather than opting for the time honoured smack talk about bums getting knocked the eff out.

I think its reasonable to call Thompson as a bum and I think he has achived more than both of them, I think thats a fact, I don't like all of these set peice conference things but having said that its what makes the sport go round.

observer1 · Post by **observer1** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:11

I do agree with Deadpan though, has made a Point

Eraserhead · Post by **Eraserhead** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:12

deadpan wrote:Obviously it's not a case of fighters being 'allowed' to go up in weight and get shot straight off. But I think the fighter in the higher division reserves the right to ask that the new kid on the block prove themselves at the weight.

Does beating Bonin achieve that?

And I ask again would Haye have confronted a peak Lennox?

That's got nothing to do with it. Look at all the examples I gave earlier. Why do you think Jones called out Ruiz? Why is Pacquaio fighting Diaz and not Casamayor or Campbell? At least with Haye he's calling out the best heavywreight in the world. A peak Lennox Lewis came and went years ago. I don't even know why you're mentioning him. Unless Marty McFly and the Doc are planning to bring Lennox back, Klitschko is The Man right now.

You may think that fighter A needs to prove himself at the new weight to meet fighter B, but you're in the minority. It just doesn't happen like that.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:14

deadpan wrote: And I ask again would Haye have confronted a peak Lennox?

I reckon so, but he may have done it in a different manner as they're muckas

Carbo · Post by **Carbo** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:16

Haye's doing an excellent marketing job. He knows that in the US, Vlad is considered the number one guy and Haye is simply putting his name next to the Ukrainian's. He knows it's not going to happen, but he's taking the chance.

I'd definately fancy Haye against Valuev, by the way. Imagine the promotion: "David versus Goliath". Somebody call Don King, please.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:16

Haye was calling the whole division bums.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:22

If Wlad was British I think we would be supporting him for being quieter and letting his fists do the talking.

I'd definately fancy Haye against Valuev, by the way. Imagine the promotion: "David versus Goliath". Somebody call Don King, please.

My reasons for a 50/50 are based on Haye being power reliant with the right hand and Valuev Is made of granite. Valuev will wear him out with the leans and clinches with guys like Ruiz and Wlad can do.

Audley was doing all the talk too and got knocked out, although ain't afraid to fight he has a shaky chin when hit flush.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:29

Terry D wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Audley was doing all the talk too and got knocked out.
You do realise that Haye captured the Cruiserweight title? The real one? Hence the talk.

Thats at cruiserweight though, he's won nothing at Heavyweight yet.

I did say unlike Harrison he has the balls to fight too.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:33

Its an interesting analogy.... I think had this been Herbie Hide or something, then there maybe a point - cause I think its fair enough for a champion from a lighter devision to call out the champion from above it. If it was someone who is knocking out lesser fighters, like Hide, then yes - criticism would have been just.

If David Diaz, Casamayor etc called out Witter/Hatton... I wouldn't be critical. Similar scenerio here with Haye and Klitchsko.

deadpan · Post by **deadpan** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:34

My views are -

1. Wlad has the right to look elsewhere and ask Haye to earn his shot. Haye confronting him with the Setanta cameras there shouldn't get him a shot over those who have been waiting their chance. It makes him look a bit WWE. And therefore a bit silly.

2. Haye is targeting Wlad because he's chinny. Hence my 'shit or bust' paradigm. If Lennox was no.1 Haye wouldn't be targeting the top man.

3. Yes, Eraserhead fighters get shots out of their division. But only if both fighters want it. Wlad doesn't at the moment. Why should he? If Haye is really the future of the division and bowls over some top names they could meet in 18 months and earn twice the money.

If Enzo had won, would he have earned the right to face Wlad next?

Like bastard heck as like. As Brian Glover probably once said.

Chambers2 · Post by **Chambers2** » 28 Apr 2008, 10:38

Max Molyneux wrote:
Terry D wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Audley was doing all the talk too and got knocked out.
You do realise that Haye captured the Cruiserweight title? The real one? Hence the talk.
Thats at cruiserweight though, he's won nothing at Heavyweight yet.

At least one of the major governing bodies gives a top ten ranking to the European title holder, so it's not that strange an idea that the Unified lineal Cruiser champ can jump in the HW queue.

How did JC get his shot at the Rings LHW champ without fighting at the weight, this is the same scenario