if he can make the weight ,i think he could be a real force at 160, with pavlik being the only fight i wouldnt start him favourite in. although i would give him a big chance in that fight as well.
but if he could make middle all this time, i think he would of done it by now
mundine at middleweight
He is basic, but he has other qualities like fire, drive, determination, willingness to rally, willingness to take on the best -- that Mundine perhaps won't ever have. As Mundine showed vs Kessler, when he just let the Dane outwork him.Brute wrote:Pavlik is a basic fighter. Pavlik who took his title off the man who beat Bernard Hopkins twice.
Be serious.
If Mundine is moving down to middleweight to avoid Kessler, this takes the biscuit. He makes a fortune in these easy fights but surely he expected the WBA to throw someone tough at him one day?
Come on Mundine, fight Kessler, get the win and set yourself up for the big time.
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jezzamundo
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- Joined: 16 Jun 2004, 13:11
Let me start off by saying that they way that Mundine is treading water, holding on to his "world title" and easily beating C level fighters, is a total discredit to his own ability.
As for whether Mundine could make middleweight, I think he certainly could, although perhaps not as easily if he had a couple of years earlier. He weighed 73.5kg (161.7lb) at some stage of his training for the Green fight, and that's without dehydration.
Calling Mundine a puncher is not accurate. He has power, yes, but he is certainly not a power puncher at super middleweight. What Mundine does have is great handspeed, good footspeed, excellent evasive ability and good accuracy of punches.
At this stage of his career, there are pluses and minuses of moving to middleweight. What I think he should really be trying to do now, is establishing his name in America. He should beat Lacy, Allan Green or Miranda if he managed to get a matchup with them. Also, winning a REAL world title should be on his to do list. As for a rematch with Kessler, I feel that is a winnable fight for Mundine, but the result would likely be the same as the first.
Mundine has the ability to be top 5 P4P, but will never get there if he doesn't get some balls and take on some world class opposition, and soon!
As for whether Mundine could make middleweight, I think he certainly could, although perhaps not as easily if he had a couple of years earlier. He weighed 73.5kg (161.7lb) at some stage of his training for the Green fight, and that's without dehydration.
Calling Mundine a puncher is not accurate. He has power, yes, but he is certainly not a power puncher at super middleweight. What Mundine does have is great handspeed, good footspeed, excellent evasive ability and good accuracy of punches.
At this stage of his career, there are pluses and minuses of moving to middleweight. What I think he should really be trying to do now, is establishing his name in America. He should beat Lacy, Allan Green or Miranda if he managed to get a matchup with them. Also, winning a REAL world title should be on his to do list. As for a rematch with Kessler, I feel that is a winnable fight for Mundine, but the result would likely be the same as the first.
Mundine has the ability to be top 5 P4P, but will never get there if he doesn't get some balls and take on some world class opposition, and soon!
Mundine has the natural ability to beat anyone around his weight, What he lacks is between his ears and in his heart. I think he would be better suited at Middleweight but saying that he would have to beat a better fighter in Pavlik than Kessler is at 168.jezzamundo wrote:Let me start off by saying that they way that Mundine is treading water, holding on to his "world title" and easily beating C level fighters, is a total discredit to his own ability.
As for whether Mundine could make middleweight, I think he certainly could, although perhaps not as easily if he had a couple of years earlier. He weighed 73.5kg (161.7lb) at some stage of his training for the Green fight, and that's without dehydration.
Calling Mundine a puncher is not accurate. He has power, yes, but he is certainly not a power puncher at super middleweight. What Mundine does have is great handspeed, good footspeed, excellent evasive ability and good accuracy of punches.
At this stage of his career, there are pluses and minuses of moving to middleweight. What I think he should really be trying to do now, is establishing his name in America. He should beat Lacy, Allan Green or Miranda if he managed to get a matchup with them. Also, winning a REAL world title should be on his to do list. As for a rematch with Kessler, I feel that is a winnable fight for Mundine, but the result would likely be the same as the first.
Mundine has the ability to be top 5 P4P, but will never get there if he doesn't get some balls and take on some world class opposition, and soon!
jezzamundo wrote:Let me start off by saying that they way that Mundine is treading water, holding on to his "world title" and easily beating C level fighters, is a total discredit to his own ability.
As for whether Mundine could make middleweight, I think he certainly could, although perhaps not as easily if he had a couple of years earlier. He weighed 73.5kg (161.7lb) at some stage of his training for the Green fight, and that's without dehydration.
Calling Mundine a puncher is not accurate. He has power, yes, but he is certainly not a power puncher at super middleweight. What Mundine does have is great handspeed, good footspeed, excellent evasive ability and good accuracy of punches.
At this stage of his career, there are pluses and minuses of moving to middleweight. What I think he should really be trying to do now, is establishing his name in America. He should beat Lacy, Allan Green or Miranda if he managed to get a matchup with them. Also, winning a REAL world title should be on his to do list. As for a rematch with Kessler, I feel that is a winnable fight for Mundine, but the result would likely be the same as the first.
Mundine has the ability to be top 5 P4P, but will never get there if he doesn't get some balls and take on some world class opposition, and soon!
Agree, Mundine has all the ability in the world but no balls, when ever he has steped up - Otke world class KOed, Sciaca - Top 20 at best - beat Mundine, Kessler world class beat Mundine easily.
Mundine can talk all he likes until he starts fighting world class fighters he will remain a JOKE.
Look at Roy JJ now and old man that wasted his best years playing it safe, his legacy will be forever tainted - and Mundine well the way he is going he wont have a lagacy let alone one to be proud of.
Mundine - spit or get of the pot.
Ross
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adamheight
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adamheight
- Editor
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i wouldnt say his legacy would be forever tainted, but if he had good representation and didnt try to save money by representing himself he probably could have made many hundreds of millions.
a lot of fighters (in the uk especially) become household names who are far less talented than roy jones jr. with the right people rjj could have had endorsed many products and made a shit load of $$$. im not saying he isnt a household name (when u got the skills like he did/does its inevitable eventually), im just saying he could have become a household name many yrs earlier.
its similar to what mundine is doing, hes got less overheads becoz he does all his own shit. but damn taking home 50% of 10million is still more than taking home 80% of 3 million.
a lot of fighters (in the uk especially) become household names who are far less talented than roy jones jr. with the right people rjj could have had endorsed many products and made a shit load of $$$. im not saying he isnt a household name (when u got the skills like he did/does its inevitable eventually), im just saying he could have become a household name many yrs earlier.
its similar to what mundine is doing, hes got less overheads becoz he does all his own shit. but damn taking home 50% of 10million is still more than taking home 80% of 3 million.
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adamheight
- Editor
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No not a joke, IMO RJJ always played it safe and never took the risks that he should have, and given his remarkable ability he could have beaten them all, he did not fight Benn or McCellan (?), There was a good piece recently in the Ring mag about his legacy and the view that he was more a business man than a fighter.Marlin wrote:I hope so.calmac66 wrote:This is a joke right?Ross wrote:
Look at Roy JJ now and old man that wasted his best years playing it safe, his legacy will be forever tainted
Ross
You can argue that he went up to heavy weight ala Michael Spinks, but Spinks beat the title holderconsidered to be the best at the time and he went in a 6-1 underdog, RJJ fought the weakest Champ in Ruiz and I think he may have even been the favorite.
No doubt he was a great fighter but he did not always fight the best available opposition
ross
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adamheight
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from what i saw of 'the' joe that fought bernard, mundine would beat him. the thing about mundine is that he has improved since fighting kessler. we saw that against solomon. mundine hasnt fought anyone recently good enough to give us an idea on how MUCH he has improved. put mundine in a hard contest that really tests his improvement, he may well surprise not only us, but himself also.adamheight wrote:yeah thats right...he knows its never gonna happen. as for joe i doubt mundine has ever really entered his mind.Ross wrote:and another thng re Mundine, he is calling out Joe, cause Joe is not intersted in fighting him
There is an easy test to see how much he has improved since the Kessler fight, and that is to fight Kessler again. This is a fight which has been touted for a while now. Granted Kessler may have improved as well, but it's still the next logical step. Imagine if he beats Kessler, then everyone will have to take notice.pawpaw wrote:from what i saw of 'the' joe that fought bernard, mundine would beat him. the thing about mundine is that he has improved since fighting kessler. we saw that against solomon. mundine hasnt fought anyone recently good enough to give us an idea on how MUCH he has improved. put mundine in a hard contest that really tests his improvement, he may well surprise not only us, but himself also.adamheight wrote:yeah thats right...he knows its never gonna happen. as for joe i doubt mundine has ever really entered his mind.Ross wrote:and another thng re Mundine, he is calling out Joe, cause Joe is not intersted in fighting him
Also, I reckon Joe will stay at light heavy. That is where RJJ wants to fight, and that is where the money is. Joe only has 2 or 3 fights left, he won't waste one on Mundine.
Why not? It would be easy money. He has to win another five to break the "Marciano Record." (Never mind the fighters like Benvenutti who won more than fifty straight and kept boxing).toppity wrote:There is an easy test to see how much he has improved since the Kessler fight, and that is to fight Kessler again. This is a fight which has been touted for a while now. Granted Kessler may have improved as well, but it's still the next logical step. Imagine if he beats Kessler, then everyone will have to take notice.pawpaw wrote:from what i saw of 'the' joe that fought bernard, mundine would beat him. the thing about mundine is that he has improved since fighting kessler. we saw that against solomon. mundine hasnt fought anyone recently good enough to give us an idea on how MUCH he has improved. put mundine in a hard contest that really tests his improvement, he may well surprise not only us, but himself also.adamheight wrote: yeah thats right...he knows its never gonna happen. as for joe i doubt mundine has ever really entered his mind.
Also, I reckon Joe will stay at light heavy. That is where RJJ wants to fight, and that is where the money is. Joe only has 2 or 3 fights left, he won't waste one on Mundine.
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adamheight
- Editor
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joe has no intentions of taking his record to 49-0 or 50-0.Brute wrote:Why not? It would be easy money. He has to win another five to break the "Marciano Record." (Never mind the fighters like Benvenutti who won more than fifty straight and kept boxing).toppity wrote:There is an easy test to see how much he has improved since the Kessler fight, and that is to fight Kessler again. This is a fight which has been touted for a while now. Granted Kessler may have improved as well, but it's still the next logical step. Imagine if he beats Kessler, then everyone will have to take notice.pawpaw wrote: from what i saw of 'the' joe that fought bernard, mundine would beat him. the thing about mundine is that he has improved since fighting kessler. we saw that against solomon. mundine hasnt fought anyone recently good enough to give us an idea on how MUCH he has improved. put mundine in a hard contest that really tests his improvement, he may well surprise not only us, but himself also.
Also, I reckon Joe will stay at light heavy. That is where RJJ wants to fight, and that is where the money is. Joe only has 2 or 3 fights left, he won't waste one on Mundine.
theres no way he'll fight mundine, he'll fight carl froch on the hatton-witter card before he fights mundine.
The problem is the 'easy money' he would earn would be insignificant copmared to what he could earn against RJJ, Tarver, even Dawson. He has proven to himself that the plane won't crash when he flies to America. It took him a long while to build up the courage to travel across the pond, but now he has, I think the majority of his final fights will be where the money is.Brute wrote:Why not? It would be easy money. He has to win another five to break the "Marciano Record." (Never mind the fighters like Benvenutti who won more than fifty straight and kept boxing).toppity wrote:There is an easy test to see how much he has improved since the Kessler fight, and that is to fight Kessler again. This is a fight which has been touted for a while now. Granted Kessler may have improved as well, but it's still the next logical step. Imagine if he beats Kessler, then everyone will have to take notice.pawpaw wrote: from what i saw of 'the' joe that fought bernard, mundine would beat him. the thing about mundine is that he has improved since fighting kessler. we saw that against solomon. mundine hasnt fought anyone recently good enough to give us an idea on how MUCH he has improved. put mundine in a hard contest that really tests his improvement, he may well surprise not only us, but himself also.
Also, I reckon Joe will stay at light heavy. That is where RJJ wants to fight, and that is where the money is. Joe only has 2 or 3 fights left, he won't waste one on Mundine.