Calzaghe vacates WBC

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:10

nickd wrote:
Autobarn wrote:
nickd wrote:Calzaghe is an elite level fighter, Froch is yet to fight for a world title! I can't see why anyone thinks Calzaghe should make the fight. Maybe in a years time if he's still fighting it's possible. If Froch wins the WBC belt and beats Kessler then perhaps Calzaghe will make the fight. But Kessler beats him if you ask me. I just fail to see what is so special about Froch. Decent fighter yes, but he has very little chance of beating the Calzaghe's of this world sorry. What exactly has he proved on the world stage? Nothing.
aren't elite fighters meant to fight their mandatories?
Not when they have 1 or 2 fights left in their career no. And he's fighting a division above now.

yeah, why start fighting mandatories now at this stage, especially when you're invited on the riveting seniors tour.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:13

Terry D wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
Terry D wrote: He had been featured on US TV frequently, importantly his fights were not stinkers and people actually enjoyed watching him. At that point, perhaps even now in the US, you could not say that about Witter.

Urango is much-maligned by people who did not bother to do any research into him or check out his prior fights.

Limited punchers score KO's, people, especially the US fan, likes to see KO's. They liked Urango and guess what? He is back on US TV laying motherf*ckers out. He will get a few bites at titles.

He may not have the Lennox Lewis type skills of Enzo Mac but Urango was perfectly acceptable as an opponent for that type of semi-final bout. As I've said all along.
Urango got a gift against Rabah, who got ko'd by Ndou, who lost to Witter. I don't think audiences would have been going crazy over Urango when he was getting given a gift against a none puncher.

Most posters on hardcore forums in the US didnt know who Urango is so lets not pretend he was any kind of name
They knew him. Highlight reel KO of Eason on ESPN. Shaky KO win over Hernandez on US TV. The entertaining draw with Arnaoutis. The controversy versus Rabah, which people talked about on US forums, and this British one I think.

Also, lets not paint a Boxrec-by-dots 'he fought him and looked bad and he lost to him who looked good', we are not on our first post here.

People in the US knew Urango as a guy who could score exciting KO's and who had been in two controversial (hence discussed) fights. At the time they knew Witter as that British guy that they would only watch on TV if the crowd was populated by nude female celebrities such as Zeta Jones.

You cannot have it both ways PN, saying the Rabah win was a controversy then stating that no one spoke about it. That is a clear contradiction.

US audiences are not going crazy over Witter, hence this Bradley fight.

The thing is no one from Rabah/Urango/Eason were all untalented unwatched fighters. No one was going crazy about Urango, a handful of people may have known him but he simply wasnt known or any good. The only reason Urango was choosen was because he was the weakest belt holder and he was coming off a loss. Now hes shooting for Malignaggi who is also coming off a loss (Ngoudjo)

Witter-Hatton would be a bigger sell because its the best against the best and thats what people want. Selling a best versus the best match up isnt that hard.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:28

Urango wasn't even In the rings top 10 when he fought Hatton.

He Isn't now either.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

EddieShredder · Post by **EddieShredder** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:33

Max Molyneux wrote:Urango wasn't even In the rings top 10 when he fought Hatton.

He Isn't now either.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html

However Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchian, Kabery Salem, Evans Ashira and Will McIntyre were all fixtures in the independant top 10 at the time Joe fought them

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:36

EddieShredder wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Urango wasn't even In the rings top 10 when he fought Hatton.

He Isn't now either.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html
However Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchian, Kabery Salem, Evans Ashira and Will McIntyre were all fixtures in the independant top 10 at the time Joe fought them

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 30 Apr 2008, 14:47

EddieShredder wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Urango wasn't even In the rings top 10 when he fought Hatton.

He Isn't now either.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html
However Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchian, Kabery Salem, Evans Ashira and Will McIntyre were all fixtures in the independant top 10 at the time Joe fought them

I don't disagree with that though and don't try to justify them like pro Hatton people do.

At least Frank didn't put them on ppv like the Hatton's would of.

states · Post by **states** » 30 Apr 2008, 18:30

Max Molyneux wrote:
EddieShredder wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:Urango wasn't even In the rings top 10 when he fought Hatton.

He Isn't now either.

http://www.thering-online.com/ringpages/ratings2.html
However Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchian, Kabery Salem, Evans Ashira and Will McIntyre were all fixtures in the independant top 10 at the time Joe fought them
I don't disagree with that though and don't try to justify them like pro Hatton people do.

At least Frank didn't put them on ppv like the Hatton's would of.

Don't delude yourself Max. If Calzaghe could have been sold as a PPV attraction, he would have been. SKY control the PPV angle as much as the fighter.

Maelstrom · Post by **Maelstrom** » 30 Apr 2008, 19:15

STP,Banjo and Autobarn. I am very sorry, but you are either close to the Froch camp or have lost touch with reality.

Aside from the fact that Calzaghe is operating at a much higher level and in a higher weight division it comes down to one simple question:

Fight Froch for £500,000-£1,000,000 or Jones for £10,000,000+.

What would you do? Honestly.

Also, bear in mind 99.9% of people will see Jones as a better name to have on his record, regardless of the criticisms you can make.

lankester · Post by **lankester** » 30 Apr 2008, 23:29

banjo wrote:
nickd wrote:
banjo wrote:Who did Calzaghe beat before he won a world title.

Hypocrite
Who's a hypocrite? Calzaghe has bigger fight to fry at the moment. Calzaghe fought for a vacant title against Eubank. I guess Froch will get a vacant WBC fight now. You seem to be suggesting (ludicrously) Froch has been avoided by the champs when he's been fighting British title fights!
Let me just say this, JC is a fantastic fighter and a great role model for youngsters, but before he challenged for a world title his opposition was very average, certainly no better than Carls opposition to date. What i'm saying is 11 years ago Joe was in the same position as Carl is currently in, now yes someone like Roy Jones would look good on Joes resume and make him richer but wouldn't his legacy look better if he took on a younger hungry challenger?

I think so.

in the us .. they will just say that calzaghe won vs an unproven boxer (froch). Sad but true, RJJ is a better name on calzaghe resume.

Maxime · Post by **Maxime** » 01 May 2008, 00:11

Maybe Froch should start by beating someone ranked in the top10 before people start saying Calzaghe is avoiding him.

My 0.02$.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 May 2008, 04:39

Maxime wrote:Maybe Froch should start by beating someone ranked in the top10 before people start saying Calzaghe is avoiding him.

My 0.02$.

mike john · Post by **mike john** » 01 May 2008, 05:27

if joe were to fight for a few years to come, a fantastic way to bow out would be something like - jones, froch, tarver, pavlik.
but hes not hanging around for a few years. hes got 1 or 2 fights left max. froch would not only be the last name on the list out of those i mentioned, id also throw in johnson and dawson ahead of carl.

roy adds name value to calzaghes resume. can someone explain what froch's name adds that other names already on the list do not?
carls a young hungry fighter - so was kessler, who was also champion with much more big fight experience.
carls an unbeaten sharp spiteful hitter with a good chin - so was lacy, who was also champion with much more big fight experience.
any other factors?

outside of an all british dust up angle, which wouldnt ignite american interest, why should joe calzaghe enterain carl froch in his last 1 or 2 fights?

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 May 2008, 06:15

states wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
EddieShredder wrote: However Tocker Pudwill, Mger Mkrtchian, Kabery Salem, Evans Ashira and Will McIntyre were all fixtures in the independant top 10 at the time Joe fought them
I don't disagree with that though and don't try to justify them like pro Hatton people do.

At least Frank didn't put them on ppv like the Hatton's would of.
Don't delude yourself Max. If Calzaghe could have been sold as a PPV attraction, he would have been. SKY control the PPV angle as much as the fighter.

I'm not deluding anything, most of you nutters deluded your selfs Into thinking Hatton had a chance against Floyd and thought he was an elite fighter.

He never went on PPV and wasn't bothered about It like the Hattons were. At least he would of been worth paying for than the Hugman.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 01 May 2008, 06:36

Maelstrom wrote:STP,Banjo and Autobarn. I am very sorry, but you are either close to the Froch camp or have lost touch with reality.

Aside from the fact that Calzaghe is operating at a much higher level and in a higher weight division it comes down to one simple question:

Fight Froch for £500,000-£1,000,000 or Jones for £10,000,000+.

What would you do? Honestly.

Also, bear in mind 99.9% of people will see Jones as a better name to have on his record, regardless of the criticisms you can make.

actually I don't think Froch will get a shot at Calzaghe. Like I say, Calzaghe will fight Jones or Tarver, and will be remmebered for dismal fights on the seniors tour for big money.

Joe has been a WBO champ forever, which allowed Warren to pick just about every challenger he ever faced. Now he holds Ring titles at two weights. Which means he can fight whoever he wants with no mandatory requirement.

I just think it's funny the 1st time in 11 yrs he got a good mandatory and gave the WBC belt away!

However it would have been nice to see Froch make a splash on ITV, call out Calzaghe, demand a fight, get ppl interested and have 1 of those big British battles that fills a stadium.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 01 May 2008, 06:41

He hasn't vacated the WBC title yet, STP assumed he will because he's anti Calzaghe and thinks Froch Is anything special.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 May 2008, 10:27

Why does every thread have to descend into a long drawn out Hatton v Witter debate?

hitman_hatton1 · Post by **hitman_hatton1** » 01 May 2008, 10:35

Terry D wrote:Rabah has some talent, he can box better than you and I. Urango certainly hits harder and with more accuracy than me.

Malignaggi won his last bout. Maybe not handily but he fits the bill for MSG. Witter does not I'm afraid.

Urango is unfairly maligned, to be honest I enjoy watching his fights, not the new Ali but a hard hitter who is not shy. With due respect to Witter the night Hatton committed the sin of facing Urango Witter took on Moura. Hatton's fight led to a fight with the then respected Castillo and Floyd. Witter's fight led to a fight with the greatest fighter named after a girl in Harris. Over the 3-2 fight run Hatton faced the far superior opposition, and Bradley is not as good as Malignaggi.

Witter should fight more often and bring over someone like Urango, it would be a good comparison platform.

i had urango beating rabah by 8 rds to 4.

and i've scored the fight twice.

completely disagreed with the commentary on the night.

and of a lot of the opinions of people on forums who thought it was a robbery.

bring urango over and let's see witter handle him.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 May 2008, 10:36

Yes I did make A comment.

Well can we try and stick to the thread topic from here on in then maybe? There are numerous Hatton v Witter threads if you guys want to keep bashing your heads against a brick wall! ;)

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 01 May 2008, 10:38

Jones is another big money fight. Maybe he isnt what he was but he still has a KO punch and can be dangerous. Joe wont go back to fighting domestic fighters, so Froch wont get a chance although Woods I think would have been in the frame had he beaten Tarver and kept his belt. Not that many options open to Joe, so Jones looks like the man to target.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 01 May 2008, 10:41

Commendable job.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 01 May 2008, 10:41

Terry D wrote:
nickd wrote:Yes I did make A comment.

Well can we try and stick to the thread topic from here on in then maybe? There are numerous Hatton v Witter threads if you guys want to keep bashing your heads against a brick wall! ;)
Thread topic? Calzaghe vacates the WBC. Froch picks-up the vacant title, calls out Calzaghe, having fulfilled every requirement asked of him. Calzaghe fights someone else instead, everyone goes bonkers.

Eventually they fight on a HBO PPV (Joe is winning until Woods leaps into the ring and attacks him with a chair, leaving Froch to smoke some boots) with Hatton-Witter as chief support with Haye-Hide, Nelson-Macca, Arthur-Harrison and Macklin-Duddy on the bill.

Americans refuse to watch

Those other guys are banging their heads against a brick wall, I'm trying to save the wall.

There is no topic! Calzaghe hasn't vacated yet as there's nothing on the super-information-highway to confirm this.

Poncey · Post by **Poncey** » 01 May 2008, 10:51

I watched an interview on BBC Sport's website where he said he might, as he felt he made 173 too easily.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 01 May 2008, 12:29

Emerson Poncey Name Ghent wrote:I watched an interview on BBC Sport's website where he said he might, as he felt he made 173 too easily.

Yeah why eat porridge made with water and lettuce on cream crackers just to stay at SMW. He has cleaned up at that weight and moved up, so fight Jones for 6 million and retire and wait for the Queen to say "rise Sir Joe".

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 06 May 2008, 03:28

STP wrote:He's giving up the first meaningful belts he's won in 15 years to avoid big-money mandatories the public want to see. It makes me sick the way this fraud has constructed his career.

I too was incensed when he gave up the IBF rather than fight Robert Stielglitz, which, as you say, the whole of the general public wanted to see.

oliverfennell · Post by **oliverfennell** » 06 May 2008, 03:45

Terry D wrote:
nickd wrote:Froch is not a big fight for HBO. End of story.
Neither is Witter but people cried for it. Why are the same people not crying out for Froch?

Because Witter is the WBC champion. Froch hasn't even fought for a world title yet, let alone won one.