Classic American West Coast Boxing

kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

De La Hoya to come home to cheers, not jeers
Image
Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
Straight out of East L.A., Oscar De La Hoya will fight in his own backyard on Saturday, at the Home Depot Center, for the first time in eight years.
Many think backlash from some Latinos over the success of East L.A. boxer will finally be put to rest when he fights Steve Forbes in his first match here in eight years.

By Lance Pugmire and Kevin Baxter, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

There was a time, not so long ago in Oscar De La Hoya's memory, when the "Golden Boy" from East L.A. was treated not to hometown worship, but to boos.

On Saturday, he fights Steve Forbes, and for De La Hoya it is in a sense a homecoming because he hasn't boxed here in eight years.

Many close to the Olympic gold medalist predict a cascade of cheers from the expected capacity crowd of 27,000 at Home Depot Center's soccer stadium -- a tribute, they say, that will finally end what they see as a stubborn backlash to De La Hoya's success.

That success came swiftly. He won instant fame after the 1992 Barcelona Games, and his leading-man looks and charisma fueled wild popularity when he turned pro.

Yet, there was an undercurrent of disfavor.

Some still call him a traitor. Others still revile him as a pretty boy. Some in his own neighborhood still are ready to boo him. The disdain is less mean now, though, and certainly less enveloping.

"I didn't understand it," De La Hoya said the other day. ". . . Everywhere I'd go, I'd get booed. It was frustrating."

Ron Shelton, who wrote and directed "Bull Durham" and "White Men Can't Jump," has closely followed De La Hoya.

"We have a lot of icons in L.A., but not many of them are homegrown," Shelton said. "Magic was drafted from Michigan, Koufax came from Brooklyn, Fernando was from Mexico. This guy's one of us. And he's immortal."

Fame came so fast for De La Hoya, now 35, yet has been so lasting: A bronze statue of the boxer will be joining those of Magic Johnson and Wayne Gretzky outside Staples Center.

It began with the gold medal won for the U.S., and for his mom, who had died of cancer. Many still remember how he fought back tears on the victory stand.

By 1996, he was 21-0 as a pro. Then he landed a fight against the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez of Mexico. Chavez, who held the World Boxing Council light welterweight title, was beloved by Latino boxing fans here for his toughness, his Mexican roots and his common-man persona.

De La Hoya destroyed Chavez in a fourth-round technical knockout. He destroyed something else too: part of his fan base. Many Latinos were left feeling angry, they loved Chavez so. They openly mocked De La Hoya as a pretty boy and a "pocho" -- not a true Mexican, and not a true American, the boxer's former publicist Bill Caplan recalled.

This scorn flew full force later that year, when Chavez fought Joey Gamache in Anaheim and De La Hoya made a public appearance there. He was greeted with ear-splitting boos.

"Here I am, an athlete thinking only about being a champion," De La Hoya said. "I beat the biggest name in Mexico, and it was like everyone turned on me. The die-hard boxing aficionados couldn't stand me. I didn't understand."

Alexandro Jose Gradilla, assistant professor of Chicano studies at Cal State Fullerton, said De La Hoya probably never will be able to win over Latinos with strong roots in Mexico.

"This hits at the heart of the 'old' versus the 'new' thinking," Gradilla said. "While De La Hoya represents through his charities and financial success something that many can point to as a great thing, a source of great national pride is boxing.

"This is something the immigrant does better, and for some, the one thing they at least had was boxing and Julio Cesar Chavez."

Gradilla noted that even De La Hoya's style gets picked on.

"From the perspective of Mexicans, they don't get Oscar, a Mexican American, walking into the ring with mariachis. . . . It's a combination of national and male pride," he said. "Oscar can't measure up to the 'manliness' of a Mexican man. He's always going to be viewed with suspicion."

For De La Hoya, Saturday's bout is a pre-Cinco de Mayo celebration intended to welcome fans from all backgrounds and income levels -- some tickets have a face value of $25.

"He's good for us, because he's an example to everybody," Jairo Contreras, 23, an admitted former gang member, said last week as he stood on an East L.A. corner distributing job fliers to students at De La Hoya's old school, Garfield High. "We need more people to come out of the ghetto, you know?

"You need a spark, because without a spark, there's no hope. . . . There's a better life. Seeing Oscar do it from here, you say, 'I can do it too.' "

It is clear De La Hoya has helped to inspire. He has held several world boxing titles, is building his L.A.-based Golden Boy Promotions, and with John Long, founder of real estate investment firm Highridge Partners, formed Golden Boy Enterprises to invest in housing and mixed-use developments in Latino communities.

"I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood, but you have people there who want to succeed and work hard and live the American dream," De La Hoya said. "I struggled, I came from humble beginnings. But I'll continue to fight and make sure the message is still out there: Work hard, go after your dreams."

But the boos made it tough. It got so bad that De La Hoya was criticized for something as simple as moving from East L.A. to Montebello, which is next-door, though he now resides in Puerto Rico with his wife, Millie, and two of his five children.

At one point, "I said, 'The heck with it, I don't need to be the guy who gives back,' " he said. "And I had this mind-frame for quite awhile."

Comedian Paul Rodriguez, a friend of De La Hoya, said the audience that rooted most venomously against De La Hoya was "the Mexican who speaks Spanish and who roots for the Mexico soccer team over the U.S. soccer team, even though it's hard to understand why you're loyal to a country that wasn't loyal to you."

That sentiment still exists in spots.

Robert Hernandez, 50, emerged from working under a pickup at Rosemead Radiator in Boyle Heights to explain that he thinks of De La Hoya as "kind of a sissy; he's never fought the tough guys."

At Sunday's Fiesta Broadway downtown, Fernando Lopez of Oaxaca, Mexico, said he won tickets to De La Hoya-Forbes on a radio call-in show but refused to take them because he dislikes De La Hoya.

Lopez, wearing a Mexican soccer club's jersey, also admitted his favorite boxer was Chavez. "I don't like [De La Hoya] much because he claims the American flag and the Mexican flag," he said. "He can't decide where he's from. And he fights like a woman."

Amid a lunchtime crowd at El Tepeyac Cafe in Boyle Heights, school bus driver Gabriel Aguilar, 30, recalled how he once dismissed De La Hoya's victories as "fixed fights" and had explained away Chavez's loss by citing the loser's age.

Yet, Aguilar said, he finally realized some of the ridicule was misguided after his female cousin said her husband "hated" the boxer but, he said, "that was only because she had got Oscar's signature on her bra."

Working at a swap meet on East L.A.'s Whittier Boulevard, fan Veronica Montesdeoca badly wanted to talk about De La Hoya. A Spanish speaker, she hurriedly found a translator.

Montesdeoca, 29, who has bought every De La Hoya pay-per-view bout since 1998, said women she knows watch him "just because they like him and how he fights."

"His face is so beautiful," she said. "The guys say things. . . . I guess when you fight, your face is supposed to be ugly. But I'm proud of him. His family is Mexican, and I'm Mexican."

Shelton, the director, said De La Hoya took care of whatever boxing questions lingered in his last dozen bouts by going 7-5 against some top fighters: Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley (twice), Fernando Vargas, Bernard Hopkins, Ricardo Mayorga and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

It was Vargas who taunted De La Hoya before their match by declaring himself the "real Mexican." Vargas lost in an 11th-round technical knockout, and then tested positive for steroids.

It was that stirring triumph over the street-toughened Vargas, Aguilar said, that gained De La Hoya the greatest respect from his most fervent doubters.

"When someone is as successful as Oscar is, some resent it," Shelton said. "He's the greatest thing to ever happen to Southern California boxing. He's crossed over ethnic lines, gender lines, young, old. He's a movie star who doesn't act, and he's never failed to fight well."

De La Hoya has donated millions of dollars to Southland causes. On L.A.'s Eastside, he has opened a youth center and cancer treatment and neonatal centers at White Memorial Medical Center. He has also established the charter Oscar De La Hoya High School and routinely offers food and toy giveaways.

Helping his hometown, he decided, was the right thing to do, even if, he said, "two out of 100 people are booing you."

"You think about the big picture and realize people need help," he said. "I still hear things here and there, but I chalk it up to characters whose girlfriend may have a crush on me. I hope those people who were booing me have had kids born in this country now who they want to achieve the American dream, like me."

That dream is still fresh.

"From the day those fans -- literally thousands -- went to LAX and greeted me after Barcelona, there was no way I'd ever forget that," he said. "The flashbacks from that day, that reminds me that they're the ones who started my career, and this is something I have to do back for them."

Rodriguez points to De La Hoya's "presence in the community, his investment in us," and said that some in the community should bring signs to Saturday's fight reading, "I'm sorry."

"He's suffered hearing those things that he's too pretty, or not Mexican enough," Rodriguez said. "But, for my money, he's the best thing to ever come out of East L.A."

[email protected]

[email protected]
dagosd2000
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Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:Image

diego,

Here is part of our table, you can just see my wife Connie, my grandson Joey, my sons James and Frankie.

Look at the head lights on the girl in red behind James.. :P
Nice family,nice headlights. I can see why Jimmy's smiling. How would you like that in your ear? By the look on Frankie's face ,he could use some of those high beams in his ear.
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 02 May 2008, 23:23, edited 2 times in total.
kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Image

diego,

Here is part of our table, you can just see my wife Connie, my grandson Joey, my sons James and Frankie.

Look at the head lights on the girl in red behind James.. :P
Nice family,nice headlights
I like the headlights.. :TU:
dagosd2000
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Post by dagosd2000 »

raylawpc wrote:In every picture you post of Armando Muniz, he looks like he could still go 15 rounds. Diego, however . . . :wink: :wink: :wink:

Tom
Put a plate of linguini with clams in front of me,and I'll show Muniz who's boss.
dagosd2000
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Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:In every picture you post of Armando Muniz, he looks like he could still go 15 rounds. Diego, however . . . :wink: :wink: :wink:
You think diego can go 1 round?.. :wink:

Frank
I got news for ya',I work on my stare. i couldn't go 30 seconds.
kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

dagosd2000 wrote:
raylawpc wrote:In every picture you post of Armando Muniz, he looks like he could still go 15 rounds. Diego, however . . . :wink: :wink: :wink:

Tom
Put a plate of linguini with clams in front of me,and I'll show Muniz who's boss.
diego,

to bad I didn't meet you when you were 18-19 years old, I would have made you a fighter, and with your blood and my guts we would have gone places... :-?
raylawpc
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Post by raylawpc »

dagosd2000 wrote:
raylawpc wrote:In every picture you post of Armando Muniz, he looks like he could still go 15 rounds. Diego, however . . . :wink: :wink: :wink:

Tom
Put a plate of linguini with clams in front of me,and I'll show Muniz who's boss.
HA!! :D
dagosd2000
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Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:
dagosd2000 wrote:
raylawpc wrote:In every picture you post of Armando Muniz, he looks like he could still go 15 rounds. Diego, however . . . :wink: :wink: :wink:

Tom
Put a plate of linguini with clams in front of me,and I'll show Muniz who's boss.
diego,

to bad I didn't meet you when you were 18-19 years old, I would have made you a fighter, and with your blood and my guts we would have gone places... :-?
Geez Frank
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts,we'd have a Merry Christmas.
dagosd2000
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Posts: 8638
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Post by dagosd2000 »

kikibalt wrote:De La Hoya to come home to cheers, not jeers
Image
Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
Straight out of East L.A., Oscar De La Hoya will fight in his own backyard on Saturday, at the Home Depot Center, for the first time in eight years.
Many think backlash from some Latinos over the success of East L.A. boxer will finally be put to rest when he fights Steve Forbes in his first match here in eight years.

By Lance Pugmire and Kevin Baxter, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

There was a time, not so long ago in Oscar De La Hoya's memory, when the "Golden Boy" from East L.A. was treated not to hometown worship, but to boos.

On Saturday, he fights Steve Forbes, and for De La Hoya it is in a sense a homecoming because he hasn't boxed here in eight years.

Many close to the Olympic gold medalist predict a cascade of cheers from the expected capacity crowd of 27,000 at Home Depot Center's soccer stadium -- a tribute, they say, that will finally end what they see as a stubborn backlash to De La Hoya's success.

That success came swiftly. He won instant fame after the 1992 Barcelona Games, and his leading-man looks and charisma fueled wild popularity when he turned pro.

Yet, there was an undercurrent of disfavor.

Some still call him a traitor. Others still revile him as a pretty boy. Some in his own neighborhood still are ready to boo him. The disdain is less mean now, though, and certainly less enveloping.

"I didn't understand it," De La Hoya said the other day. ". . . Everywhere I'd go, I'd get booed. It was frustrating."

Ron Shelton, who wrote and directed "Bull Durham" and "White Men Can't Jump," has closely followed De La Hoya.

"We have a lot of icons in L.A., but not many of them are homegrown," Shelton said. "Magic was drafted from Michigan, Koufax came from Brooklyn, Fernando was from Mexico. This guy's one of us. And he's immortal."

Fame came so fast for De La Hoya, now 35, yet has been so lasting: A bronze statue of the boxer will be joining those of Magic Johnson and Wayne Gretzky outside Staples Center.

It began with the gold medal won for the U.S., and for his mom, who had died of cancer. Many still remember how he fought back tears on the victory stand.

By 1996, he was 21-0 as a pro. Then he landed a fight against the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez of Mexico. Chavez, who held the World Boxing Council light welterweight title, was beloved by Latino boxing fans here for his toughness, his Mexican roots and his common-man persona.

De La Hoya destroyed Chavez in a fourth-round technical knockout. He destroyed something else too: part of his fan base. Many Latinos were left feeling angry, they loved Chavez so. They openly mocked De La Hoya as a pretty boy and a "pocho" -- not a true Mexican, and not a true American, the boxer's former publicist Bill Caplan recalled.

This scorn flew full force later that year, when Chavez fought Joey Gamache in Anaheim and De La Hoya made a public appearance there. He was greeted with ear-splitting boos.

"Here I am, an athlete thinking only about being a champion," De La Hoya said. "I beat the biggest name in Mexico, and it was like everyone turned on me. The die-hard boxing aficionados couldn't stand me. I didn't understand."

Alexandro Jose Gradilla, assistant professor of Chicano studies at Cal State Fullerton, said De La Hoya probably never will be able to win over Latinos with strong roots in Mexico.

"This hits at the heart of the 'old' versus the 'new' thinking," Gradilla said. "While De La Hoya represents through his charities and financial success something that many can point to as a great thing, a source of great national pride is boxing.

"This is something the immigrant does better, and for some, the one thing they at least had was boxing and Julio Cesar Chavez."

Gradilla noted that even De La Hoya's style gets picked on.

"From the perspective of Mexicans, they don't get Oscar, a Mexican American, walking into the ring with mariachis. . . . It's a combination of national and male pride," he said. "Oscar can't measure up to the 'manliness' of a Mexican man. He's always going to be viewed with suspicion."

For De La Hoya, Saturday's bout is a pre-Cinco de Mayo celebration intended to welcome fans from all backgrounds and income levels -- some tickets have a face value of $25.

"He's good for us, because he's an example to everybody," Jairo Contreras, 23, an admitted former gang member, said last week as he stood on an East L.A. corner distributing job fliers to students at De La Hoya's old school, Garfield High. "We need more people to come out of the ghetto, you know?

"You need a spark, because without a spark, there's no hope. . . . There's a better life. Seeing Oscar do it from here, you say, 'I can do it too.' "

It is clear De La Hoya has helped to inspire. He has held several world boxing titles, is building his L.A.-based Golden Boy Promotions, and with John Long, founder of real estate investment firm Highridge Partners, formed Golden Boy Enterprises to invest in housing and mixed-use developments in Latino communities.

"I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood, but you have people there who want to succeed and work hard and live the American dream," De La Hoya said. "I struggled, I came from humble beginnings. But I'll continue to fight and make sure the message is still out there: Work hard, go after your dreams."

But the boos made it tough. It got so bad that De La Hoya was criticized for something as simple as moving from East L.A. to Montebello, which is next-door, though he now resides in Puerto Rico with his wife, Millie, and two of his five children.

At one point, "I said, 'The heck with it, I don't need to be the guy who gives back,' " he said. "And I had this mind-frame for quite awhile."

Comedian Paul Rodriguez, a friend of De La Hoya, said the audience that rooted most venomously against De La Hoya was "the Mexican who speaks Spanish and who roots for the Mexico soccer team over the U.S. soccer team, even though it's hard to understand why you're loyal to a country that wasn't loyal to you."

That sentiment still exists in spots.

Robert Hernandez, 50, emerged from working under a pickup at Rosemead Radiator in Boyle Heights to explain that he thinks of De La Hoya as "kind of a sissy; he's never fought the tough guys."

At Sunday's Fiesta Broadway downtown, Fernando Lopez of Oaxaca, Mexico, said he won tickets to De La Hoya-Forbes on a radio call-in show but refused to take them because he dislikes De La Hoya.

Lopez, wearing a Mexican soccer club's jersey, also admitted his favorite boxer was Chavez. "I don't like [De La Hoya] much because he claims the American flag and the Mexican flag," he said. "He can't decide where he's from. And he fights like a woman."

Amid a lunchtime crowd at El Tepeyac Cafe in Boyle Heights, school bus driver Gabriel Aguilar, 30, recalled how he once dismissed De La Hoya's victories as "fixed fights" and had explained away Chavez's loss by citing the loser's age.

Yet, Aguilar said, he finally realized some of the ridicule was misguided after his female cousin said her husband "hated" the boxer but, he said, "that was only because she had got Oscar's signature on her bra."

Working at a swap meet on East L.A.'s Whittier Boulevard, fan Veronica Montesdeoca badly wanted to talk about De La Hoya. A Spanish speaker, she hurriedly found a translator.

Montesdeoca, 29, who has bought every De La Hoya pay-per-view bout since 1998, said women she knows watch him "just because they like him and how he fights."

"His face is so beautiful," she said. "The guys say things. . . . I guess when you fight, your face is supposed to be ugly. But I'm proud of him. His family is Mexican, and I'm Mexican."

Shelton, the director, said De La Hoya took care of whatever boxing questions lingered in his last dozen bouts by going 7-5 against some top fighters: Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley (twice), Fernando Vargas, Bernard Hopkins, Ricardo Mayorga and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

It was Vargas who taunted De La Hoya before their match by declaring himself the "real Mexican." Vargas lost in an 11th-round technical knockout, and then tested positive for steroids.

It was that stirring triumph over the street-toughened Vargas, Aguilar said, that gained De La Hoya the greatest respect from his most fervent doubters.

"When someone is as successful as Oscar is, some resent it," Shelton said. "He's the greatest thing to ever happen to Southern California boxing. He's crossed over ethnic lines, gender lines, young, old. He's a movie star who doesn't act, and he's never failed to fight well."

De La Hoya has donated millions of dollars to Southland causes. On L.A.'s Eastside, he has opened a youth center and cancer treatment and neonatal centers at White Memorial Medical Center. He has also established the charter Oscar De La Hoya High School and routinely offers food and toy giveaways.

Helping his hometown, he decided, was the right thing to do, even if, he said, "two out of 100 people are booing you."

"You think about the big picture and realize people need help," he said. "I still hear things here and there, but I chalk it up to characters whose girlfriend may have a crush on me. I hope those people who were booing me have had kids born in this country now who they want to achieve the American dream, like me."

That dream is still fresh.

"From the day those fans -- literally thousands -- went to LAX and greeted me after Barcelona, there was no way I'd ever forget that," he said. "The flashbacks from that day, that reminds me that they're the ones who started my career, and this is something I have to do back for them."

Rodriguez points to De La Hoya's "presence in the community, his investment in us," and said that some in the community should bring signs to Saturday's fight reading, "I'm sorry."

"He's suffered hearing those things that he's too pretty, or not Mexican enough," Rodriguez said. "But, for my money, he's the best thing to ever come out of East L.A."

[email protected]

[email protected]

Frank
What's your take on DeLaHoya? Is he treating the fighters that are with him on the level? I've never seen such a popular fighter in recent years. He loses,and he's still a big draw. He's a good lookin' kid,like us,and with that smile and manners all the Mexican girls in my class are in love with him. The shit can hit the fan with this guy and he always comes out smellin' like a rose.
raylawpc
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Post by raylawpc »

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote: You think diego can go 1 round?.. :wink:
Anyone who looks at my expanding waistline will tell you that however long he could go would be longer than I could . . . :wink:

I hope to meet your friend Diego sometime. He sounds like a really nice guy in these posts.

(Come to think about it, you and I have been cyberfriends for quite a while now, yet we've never met face-to-face. The internet is a fascinating phenom, isn't it?)
Tom,

I met diego and his wife at the father and son luncheon and found both to be down to earth people, as I know you are too, you guys are my kind of people.

Yeah, we haven't met face to face, but we have talk on the phone and I know what you look like.. :D
Actually Frank. That picture you saw wasn't really of me - I just used it to test the system.

This is me:

Image
kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote: Anyone who looks at my expanding waistline will tell you that however long he could go would be longer than I could . . . :wink:

I hope to meet your friend Diego sometime. He sounds like a really nice guy in these posts.

(Come to think about it, you and I have been cyberfriends for quite a while now, yet we've never met face-to-face. The internet is a fascinating phenom, isn't it?)
Tom,

I met diego and his wife at the father and son luncheon and found both to be down to earth people, as I know you are too, you guys are my kind of people.

Yeah, we haven't met face to face, but we have talk on the phone and I know what you look like.. :D
Actually Frank. That picture you saw wasn't really of me - I just used it to test the system.

This is me:

Image
Tom,

I know that guy, I met him in hell... :lol:
kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

dagosd2000 wrote:
kikibalt wrote:De La Hoya to come home to cheers, not jeers
Image
Wally Skalij / Los Angeles Times
Straight out of East L.A., Oscar De La Hoya will fight in his own backyard on Saturday, at the Home Depot Center, for the first time in eight years.
Many think backlash from some Latinos over the success of East L.A. boxer will finally be put to rest when he fights Steve Forbes in his first match here in eight years.

By Lance Pugmire and Kevin Baxter, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers

There was a time, not so long ago in Oscar De La Hoya's memory, when the "Golden Boy" from East L.A. was treated not to hometown worship, but to boos.

On Saturday, he fights Steve Forbes, and for De La Hoya it is in a sense a homecoming because he hasn't boxed here in eight years.

Many close to the Olympic gold medalist predict a cascade of cheers from the expected capacity crowd of 27,000 at Home Depot Center's soccer stadium -- a tribute, they say, that will finally end what they see as a stubborn backlash to De La Hoya's success.

That success came swiftly. He won instant fame after the 1992 Barcelona Games, and his leading-man looks and charisma fueled wild popularity when he turned pro.

Yet, there was an undercurrent of disfavor.

Some still call him a traitor. Others still revile him as a pretty boy. Some in his own neighborhood still are ready to boo him. The disdain is less mean now, though, and certainly less enveloping.

"I didn't understand it," De La Hoya said the other day. ". . . Everywhere I'd go, I'd get booed. It was frustrating."

Ron Shelton, who wrote and directed "Bull Durham" and "White Men Can't Jump," has closely followed De La Hoya.

"We have a lot of icons in L.A., but not many of them are homegrown," Shelton said. "Magic was drafted from Michigan, Koufax came from Brooklyn, Fernando was from Mexico. This guy's one of us. And he's immortal."

Fame came so fast for De La Hoya, now 35, yet has been so lasting: A bronze statue of the boxer will be joining those of Magic Johnson and Wayne Gretzky outside Staples Center.

It began with the gold medal won for the U.S., and for his mom, who had died of cancer. Many still remember how he fought back tears on the victory stand.

By 1996, he was 21-0 as a pro. Then he landed a fight against the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez of Mexico. Chavez, who held the World Boxing Council light welterweight title, was beloved by Latino boxing fans here for his toughness, his Mexican roots and his common-man persona.

De La Hoya destroyed Chavez in a fourth-round technical knockout. He destroyed something else too: part of his fan base. Many Latinos were left feeling angry, they loved Chavez so. They openly mocked De La Hoya as a pretty boy and a "pocho" -- not a true Mexican, and not a true American, the boxer's former publicist Bill Caplan recalled.

This scorn flew full force later that year, when Chavez fought Joey Gamache in Anaheim and De La Hoya made a public appearance there. He was greeted with ear-splitting boos.

"Here I am, an athlete thinking only about being a champion," De La Hoya said. "I beat the biggest name in Mexico, and it was like everyone turned on me. The die-hard boxing aficionados couldn't stand me. I didn't understand."

Alexandro Jose Gradilla, assistant professor of Chicano studies at Cal State Fullerton, said De La Hoya probably never will be able to win over Latinos with strong roots in Mexico.

"This hits at the heart of the 'old' versus the 'new' thinking," Gradilla said. "While De La Hoya represents through his charities and financial success something that many can point to as a great thing, a source of great national pride is boxing.

"This is something the immigrant does better, and for some, the one thing they at least had was boxing and Julio Cesar Chavez."

Gradilla noted that even De La Hoya's style gets picked on.

"From the perspective of Mexicans, they don't get Oscar, a Mexican American, walking into the ring with mariachis. . . . It's a combination of national and male pride," he said. "Oscar can't measure up to the 'manliness' of a Mexican man. He's always going to be viewed with suspicion."

For De La Hoya, Saturday's bout is a pre-Cinco de Mayo celebration intended to welcome fans from all backgrounds and income levels -- some tickets have a face value of $25.

"He's good for us, because he's an example to everybody," Jairo Contreras, 23, an admitted former gang member, said last week as he stood on an East L.A. corner distributing job fliers to students at De La Hoya's old school, Garfield High. "We need more people to come out of the ghetto, you know?

"You need a spark, because without a spark, there's no hope. . . . There's a better life. Seeing Oscar do it from here, you say, 'I can do it too.' "

It is clear De La Hoya has helped to inspire. He has held several world boxing titles, is building his L.A.-based Golden Boy Promotions, and with John Long, founder of real estate investment firm Highridge Partners, formed Golden Boy Enterprises to invest in housing and mixed-use developments in Latino communities.

"I grew up in a rough and tough neighborhood, but you have people there who want to succeed and work hard and live the American dream," De La Hoya said. "I struggled, I came from humble beginnings. But I'll continue to fight and make sure the message is still out there: Work hard, go after your dreams."

But the boos made it tough. It got so bad that De La Hoya was criticized for something as simple as moving from East L.A. to Montebello, which is next-door, though he now resides in Puerto Rico with his wife, Millie, and two of his five children.

At one point, "I said, 'The heck with it, I don't need to be the guy who gives back,' " he said. "And I had this mind-frame for quite awhile."

Comedian Paul Rodriguez, a friend of De La Hoya, said the audience that rooted most venomously against De La Hoya was "the Mexican who speaks Spanish and who roots for the Mexico soccer team over the U.S. soccer team, even though it's hard to understand why you're loyal to a country that wasn't loyal to you."

That sentiment still exists in spots.

Robert Hernandez, 50, emerged from working under a pickup at Rosemead Radiator in Boyle Heights to explain that he thinks of De La Hoya as "kind of a sissy; he's never fought the tough guys."

At Sunday's Fiesta Broadway downtown, Fernando Lopez of Oaxaca, Mexico, said he won tickets to De La Hoya-Forbes on a radio call-in show but refused to take them because he dislikes De La Hoya.

Lopez, wearing a Mexican soccer club's jersey, also admitted his favorite boxer was Chavez. "I don't like [De La Hoya] much because he claims the American flag and the Mexican flag," he said. "He can't decide where he's from. And he fights like a woman."

Amid a lunchtime crowd at El Tepeyac Cafe in Boyle Heights, school bus driver Gabriel Aguilar, 30, recalled how he once dismissed De La Hoya's victories as "fixed fights" and had explained away Chavez's loss by citing the loser's age.

Yet, Aguilar said, he finally realized some of the ridicule was misguided after his female cousin said her husband "hated" the boxer but, he said, "that was only because she had got Oscar's signature on her bra."

Working at a swap meet on East L.A.'s Whittier Boulevard, fan Veronica Montesdeoca badly wanted to talk about De La Hoya. A Spanish speaker, she hurriedly found a translator.

Montesdeoca, 29, who has bought every De La Hoya pay-per-view bout since 1998, said women she knows watch him "just because they like him and how he fights."

"His face is so beautiful," she said. "The guys say things. . . . I guess when you fight, your face is supposed to be ugly. But I'm proud of him. His family is Mexican, and I'm Mexican."

Shelton, the director, said De La Hoya took care of whatever boxing questions lingered in his last dozen bouts by going 7-5 against some top fighters: Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley (twice), Fernando Vargas, Bernard Hopkins, Ricardo Mayorga and Floyd Mayweather Jr.

It was Vargas who taunted De La Hoya before their match by declaring himself the "real Mexican." Vargas lost in an 11th-round technical knockout, and then tested positive for steroids.

It was that stirring triumph over the street-toughened Vargas, Aguilar said, that gained De La Hoya the greatest respect from his most fervent doubters.

"When someone is as successful as Oscar is, some resent it," Shelton said. "He's the greatest thing to ever happen to Southern California boxing. He's crossed over ethnic lines, gender lines, young, old. He's a movie star who doesn't act, and he's never failed to fight well."

De La Hoya has donated millions of dollars to Southland causes. On L.A.'s Eastside, he has opened a youth center and cancer treatment and neonatal centers at White Memorial Medical Center. He has also established the charter Oscar De La Hoya High School and routinely offers food and toy giveaways.

Helping his hometown, he decided, was the right thing to do, even if, he said, "two out of 100 people are booing you."

"You think about the big picture and realize people need help," he said. "I still hear things here and there, but I chalk it up to characters whose girlfriend may have a crush on me. I hope those people who were booing me have had kids born in this country now who they want to achieve the American dream, like me."

That dream is still fresh.

"From the day those fans -- literally thousands -- went to LAX and greeted me after Barcelona, there was no way I'd ever forget that," he said. "The flashbacks from that day, that reminds me that they're the ones who started my career, and this is something I have to do back for them."

Rodriguez points to De La Hoya's "presence in the community, his investment in us," and said that some in the community should bring signs to Saturday's fight reading, "I'm sorry."

"He's suffered hearing those things that he's too pretty, or not Mexican enough," Rodriguez said. "But, for my money, he's the best thing to ever come out of East L.A."

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Frank
What's your take on DeLaHoya? Is he treating the fighters that are with him on the level? I've never seen such a popular fighter in recent years. He loses,and he's still a big draw. He's a good lookin' kid,like us,and with that smile and manners all the Mexican girls in my class are in love with him. The shit can hit the fan with this guy and he always comes out smellin' like a rose.
diego,

As a fighter, I think he was a good fighter, not great by any means, I think he would have beaten Art Aragon, but not Enrique Bolanos.

As a person I couldn't tell you, as I don't now him, I met him once at one of Tony's fighter in 1990 and thats it.
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Post by raylawpc »

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote: Tom,

I met diego and his wife at the father and son luncheon and found both to be down to earth people, as I know you are too, you guys are my kind of people.

Yeah, we haven't met face to face, but we have talk on the phone and I know what you look like.. :D
Actually Frank. That picture you saw wasn't really of me - I just used it to test the system.

This is me:

Image
Tom,

I know that guy, I met him in hell... :lol:
Well, I've been in a few courtrooms where I thought I was in hell and the judge was . . . oh nevermind. :wink:
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Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote: Actually Frank. That picture you saw wasn't really of me - I just used it to test the system.

This is me:

Image
Tom,

I know that guy, I met him in hell... :lol:
Well, I've been in a few courtrooms where I thought I was in hell and the judge was . . . oh nevermind. :wink:
Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
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Post by raylawpc »

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote: Tom,

I know that guy, I met him in hell... :lol:
Well, I've been in a few courtrooms where I thought I was in hell and the judge was . . . oh nevermind. :wink:
Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
What I'd rather do is put Hap, Don Fraser and you in a room with a sixpack, BBQ and a tape recorder, and let you guys talk about California boxing while I'm recording your stories for posterity :TU:

Maybe I'll post some lawyer stories later.
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Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote: Well, I've been in a few courtrooms where I thought I was in hell and the judge was . . . oh nevermind. :wink:
Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
What I'd rather do is put Hap, Don Fraser and you in a room with a sixpack, BBQ and a tape recorder, and let you guys talk about California boxing while I'm recording your stories for posterity :TU:

Maybe I'll post some lawyer stories later.
I was talking to Don Fraser the other day, and he was telling me that he had just read the obit's and that a guy 82 years old had died, and the cause of death was old age, He tells me "what the hell are they talking about? old age!)
He is 81 and he thinks he is 25, for the father and son luncheon, I ask him on what table he was going to be sitting in, he Tells me "just look for the table with all the ladies, thats where I'll be"
Last edited by kikibalt on 03 May 2008, 00:30, edited 1 time in total.
kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote: Well, I've been in a few courtrooms where I thought I was in hell and the judge was . . . oh nevermind. :wink:
Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
What I'd rather do is put Hap, Don Fraser and you in a room with a sixpack, BBQ and a tape recorder, and let you guys talk about California boxing while I'm recording your stories for posterity :TU:

Maybe I'll post some lawyer stories later.
You would be able to write a book with all the stories that would be told in such a meet.
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Post by dagosd2000 »

Some of my closet friends I've made are these old time Mexican fellas that have grown up the hard way,worked hard,lived without,and now in their twilight years, have this storage of wisdom and stories that are nostalgic and romantic. There still is a number of them in my wife's hometown,Jiquilpan,Michoacan. They sit on the porch or in the plaza. They putter around giving the impression that they're still capable. Their hands reflect their past. Strong,calloused,dextrous. They've worked in the fields,on the "ranchos",built and torn down ,had to make it work wiithout the necessary equipment,be innovative and creative. They know every corner of the republic and the numerous work places north of the border. The ones that are old enough,always have a couple of "Pancho Villa" stories.

These old timers have big families that are with them and near by. They treat him with the dignity that he deserves without question. He may walk with a cane now,but he always walked with pride.

One example: My wife has an uncle named Anselmo. He lives in the mountains outside Jiquilpan. He has a wife and seven kids that are pretty much grown up and have their own families. Anselmo lives alone in the mountains. He built a one room house. Dirt floor.He has no electricity. There's an out house in the back. He has some cows,pigs,chickens. There's his little orchard of nectarine trees. He harvests the fruit and then gets on his old horse and brings it down to his wife. She sells it in the plaza in the morning.In the dry season Anselmo attaches a long hose to the stream that runs down from the mountain and waters the trees.

It's hard to tell when he's in the mood to come down from the mountain. Most of the time he visits his wife and family. But he doesn't stay too long. Jiquilpan is too crowded and civilized for him. I've seen the guy many times during my stays in Jiquilpan. Funny thing. I've never heard him talk. I see him riding his horse real slow and I'd say,"Buenos dias Don Anselmo."
He tips his hat looking straight ahead without any expression, still ridin' along. The last time I went back to Jiquilpan they told me that Anselmo had died. Had a heart attack while he was comin' down from the mountain. Fell off his horse and he was gone. That's the way those old guys go. Fast and sudden. Funny thing like I was sayin',I never heard him talk. But that's not to say he couldn't. If you ask around they'll tell you Anselmo could tell you one or two "Pancho Villa" stories.
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Post by kikibalt »

dagosd2000 wrote:Some of my closet friends I've made are these old time Mexican fellas that have grown up the hard way,worked hard,lived without,and now in their twilight years, have this storage of wisdom and stories that are nostalgic and romantic. There still is a number of them in my wife's hometown,Jiquilpan,Michoacan. They sit on the porch or in the plaza. They putter around giving the impression that they're still capable. Their hands reflect their past. Strong,calloused,dextrous. They've worked in the fields,on the "ranchos",built and torn down ,had to make it work wiithout the necessary equipment,be innovative and creative. They know every corner of the republic and the numerous work places north of the border. The ones that are old enough,always have a couple of "Pancho Villa" stories.

These old timers have big families that are with them and near by. They treat him with the dignity that he deserves without question. He may walk with a cane now,but he always walked with pride.

One example: My wife has an uncle named Anselmo. He lives in the mountains outside Jiquilpan. He has a wife and seven kids that are pretty much grown up and have their own families. Anselmo lives alone in the mountains. He built a one room house. Dirt floor.He has no electricity. There's an out house in the back. He has some cows,pigs,chickens. There's his little orchard of nectarine trees. He harvests the fruit and then gets on his old horse and brings it down to his wife. She sells it in the plaza in the morning.In the dry season Anselmo attaches a long hose to the stream that runs down from the mountain and waters the trees.

It's hard to tell when he's in the mood to come down from the mountain. Most of the time he visits his wife and family. But he doesn't stay too long. Jiquilpan is too crowded and civilized for him. I've seen the guy many times during my stays in Jiquilpan. Funny thing. I've never heard him talk. I see him riding his horse real slow and I'd say,"Buenos dias Don Anselmo."
He tips his hat looking straight ahead without any expression, still ridin' along. The last time I went back to Jiquilpan they told me that Anselmo had died. Had a heart attack while he was comin' down from the mountain. Fell off his horse and he was gone. That's the way those old guys go. Fast and sudden. Funny thing like I was sayin',I never heard him talk. But that's not to say he couldn't. If you ask around they'll tell you Anselmo could tell you one or two "Pancho Villa" stories.
Great story diego, just reading your writings makes it worth been here on this forum.
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Post by bennie »

Age is a funny thing. The late, great Harry Mullan had no time for Sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard just didn't turn him on. I feel the same about Oscar De La Hoya.
The Golden Boy bores me.
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Post by raylawpc »

kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote: Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
What I'd rather do is put Hap, Don Fraser and you in a room with a sixpack, BBQ and a tape recorder, and let you guys talk about California boxing while I'm recording your stories for posterity :TU:

Maybe I'll post some lawyer stories later.
You would be able to write a book with all the stories that would be told in such a meet.
That's the idea . . . :D :D
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Post by kikibalt »

bennie wrote:Age is a funny thing. The late, great Harry Mullan had no time for Sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard just didn't turn him on. I feel the same about Oscar De La Hoya.
The Golden Boy bores me.
Bennie,

I feel the same way as you about Oscar De La Hoyo, not that he bores me, but I got the feeling that something was not true about him, what? I don't know.
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Post by kikibalt »

kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

raylawpc wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
raylawpc wrote: Tom,

Tell us some lawyer stories.
What I'd rather do is put Hap, Don Fraser and you in a room with a sixpack, BBQ and a tape recorder, and let you guys talk about California boxing while I'm recording your stories for posterity :TU:

Maybe I'll post some lawyer stories later.
You would be able to write a book with all the stories that would be told in such a meet.
That's the idea . . . :D :D[/quote]

Tom,

Don Chargin too, has some stories to tell, I have spent time with him, one on one, and he has told me some wild stories.
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Post by bennie »

kikibalt wrote:
bennie wrote:Age is a funny thing. The late, great Harry Mullan had no time for Sugar Ray Leonard. Leonard just didn't turn him on. I feel the same about Oscar De La Hoya.
The Golden Boy bores me.
Bennie,

I feel the same way as you about Oscar De La Hoyo, not that he bores me, but I got the feeling that something was not true about him, what? I don't know.
Duran would have killed him.
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