Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Too bad HBO couldn't get this match, Armstrong vs. Arizmendi. Imagine, this same fight, only held in today's HBO ring, minus the usual HBO crew of Lampley, Merchant, Letterman, Buffer, etc.

From ringside Don Dunphy & Dick Enberg, and instead of the stale, "Let's get ready to rumble . . ." crap, we have a silver haired Jimmy Lennon Sr.'s, "All right fans, here we go . . .!"

Today's hi-def cams and inovative production techniques would show us so much more of how great these guys really were.

Only in my dreams . . .


-Rick Farris

Rick, about that dream, can you imagine today's tech getting a 3 angled slo-mo shot of El Gato dumping Antonio Cervantes with that left hook? Or zooming in catching the chicanery taking place during Napoles-Muniz I? Or the claret red of Ramos vs Ramos in high def? Good dreams.

Scartissue

Yeah Scar, occasionally we get a 'throw back" fight, one that brings to mind the Ramos & Ramos war, but it seemed all so more common when we in Southern Cal were fed a weekly dose of brilliant boxing action, every thursday night, and for awhile every monday, or saurday nights when Parnassus and Don Fraser would put on the FORUM Boxing Club fights from a variety of venues, such as The FORUM itself, Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, The Long Beach Arena (and the old Civic Aud. that was razed in the early 70's), the Valley Music Theatre (which was converted to a church, and recently torn down), Devonshire Downs Fair Grounds, Anaheim.

We were spoiled. Here was the key to the success of L.A. boxing of the era, good COMPETITIVE matches. Whether the talent was world class, or local prelim kids the competition was fierce, and a total mis-match was rare. Some of the best I remember were the guys like Frankie "too Sweet" Jennings, some may rate them as "opponents" in the overall scope of boxing history, but these were talented guys, with slick moves that were hard learned, they lived in gyms, they had to.

Today, everybody is protected. Protected by management, promoters, cable networks, etc. Nobody dare lose, according to network execs, it kills the ratings. What about guys like Ike Williams, excuse me, the GREAT Ike Williams! He lost more than twenty times. You know, when you fight a lot, sometimes you just get up on the wrong side of the bed, you have your mind elsewhere, whatever? Homan beings are not 100% every single day of the week, not even a trained, focused professional boxer.

When we keep it real it's far more exciting.

-Rick

Scar and Rick
That's what a lot of the younger boxing fans don't understand. They think that what goes on today is what it has always been. A guy at work is always asking me about the 50's,60's,and 70's.I tell him the divisions were deep with talent. Fighters had careers that spanned close to 100 fights. There were non title fights. Trilogies. The public demanded that certain matches be made. The promoters put these bouts together. Every tank town and city had a weekly boxing card. Lots of good gyms with good trainers. You had to work hard and stay sharp to stay up there. The fans wouldn't buy any phony hype like you see today. Oscar DeLaHoya would have to wait in line for a big fight back then.

Rick,you mentioned Ike Williams. He'd make a fortune today. But you know,maybe if he was fighting today,he'd have maybe 30 fights under his belt. They'd keep fighters away from him. You referred to Ike Williams as THE GREAT Ike Williams. Maybe if he was around today,you wouldn't put THE GREAT in front of his name.

[dagosd2000]

Mother's Day today. What have you guys got goin'? My Mom passed away a while back,but my daughter and husband and the two grandkids are going to take us out for Chinese food. My old wise Mexican principal who hired me way back when,told me being a good Mom is the most important job in the world. You know, when I see a good Mom,I know he was right.

[kikibalt]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

[kikibalt]

Shane Mosely speaks at WBHOF's "Women In Boxing" luncheon. March 13, 2008, Commerce Casino

[kikibalt]

Audie Aragon remembers his father, Art Aragon, the original "Golden Boy".

[kikibalt]

L.A. County Sheriff Lee Baca speaks at WBHOF event 2008. Hall of Fame referee Gwen Adair is in background.

[kikibalt]

Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez
Painting by diego

"Beautiful"

[kikibalt]

Another painting of Gato by diego

[bennie]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

Both Gonzalez boys looks good. Great amateur, Paul. He won the Val Barker award in the LA Olympics, much to the chagrin of Pernell Whitaker. He had a bizarre pro career: he beat really good opponents in his early fights and then bottomed out.

[Rick Farris]

Rick, about that dream, can you imagine today's tech getting a 3 angled slo-mo shot of El Gato dumping Antonio Cervantes with that left hook? Or zooming in catching the chicanery taking place during Napoles-Muniz I? Or the claret red of Ramos vs Ramos in high def? Good dreams.

Scartissue

Yeah Scar, occasionally we get a 'throw back" fight, one that brings to mind the Ramos & Ramos war, but it seemed all so more common when we in Southern Cal were fed a weekly dose of brilliant boxing action, every thursday night, and for awhile every monday, or saurday nights when Parnassus and Don Fraser would put on the FORUM Boxing Club fights from a variety of venues, such as The FORUM itself, Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, The Long Beach Arena (and the old Civic Aud. that was razed in the early 70's), the Valley Music Theatre (which was converted to a church, and recently torn down), Devonshire Downs Fair Grounds, Anaheim.

We were spoiled. Here was the key to the success of L.A. boxing of the era, good COMPETITIVE matches. Whether the talent was world class, or local prelim kids the competition was fierce, and a total mis-match was rare. Some of the best I remember were the guys like Frankie "too Sweet" Jennings, some may rate them as "opponents" in the overall scope of boxing history, but these were talented guys, with slick moves that were hard learned, they lived in gyms, they had to.

Today, everybody is protected. Protected by management, promoters, cable networks, etc. Nobody dare lose, according to network execs, it kills the ratings. What about guys like Ike Williams, excuse me, the GREAT Ike Williams! He lost more than twenty times. You know, when you fight a lot, sometimes you just get up on the wrong side of the bed, you have your mind elsewhere, whatever? Homan beings are not 100% every single day of the week, not even a trained, focused professional boxer.

When we keep it real it's far more exciting.

-Rick

Scar and Rick
That's what a lot of the younger boxing fans don't understand. They think that what goes on today is what it has always been. A guy at work is always asking me about the 50's,60's,and 70's.I tell him the divisions were deep with talent. Fighters had careers that spanned close to 100 fights. There were non title fights. Trilogies. The public demanded that certain matches be made. The promoters put these bouts together. Every tank town and city had a weekly boxing card. Lots of good gyms with good trainers. You had to work hard and stay sharp to stay up there. The fans wouldn't buy any phony hype like you see today. Oscar DeLaHoya would have to wait in line for a big fight back then.

Rick,you mentioned Ike Williams. He'd make a fortune today. But you know,maybe if he was fighting today,he'd have maybe 30 fights under his belt. They'd keep fighters away from him. You referred to Ike Williams as THE GREAT Ike Williams. Maybe if he was around today,you wouldn't put THE GREAT in front of his name.

Great post, and so true, Dagos. The contemporary practice of "labeling" everything has completely ruined the essence of what is, or is not, great. It's all relative, but my definition of great usually balances upon "who" I believe "would" win matched against fighters of anothe era. Truth told, I never assume anything in boxing, but based on what I have seen and experienced, I've watched certain boxing basics slowly slip down the drain, with the loss of the great trainers, there is a noticable loss of talent in the ring.

Today boxers need'nt fight more than 100 times, and they are facing other boxers shy of defensive skills (which may equate to inadequate offensive skills as well.) They have beautiful bodies that are the product of "enhancers" as well as a form of weight lifting that actually inhibits boxing skills and moves necessary to make them happen. The guys who shy away from today's so-called "conditioning trainers" and just go out and do a little manual labor, like shoveling, lifting, bending, dipping down, on your feet, carrying off balance and adjusting.

This is what fighters do in the ring. When a guy steps out of the ring after the fight, it isn't just the aches caused by punches, but by balancing yourself when out of position, making your body right itself. This strains muscles not addressed by guys like Mackie Shilstone or Rob Garcia, DeLaHoya's guy. The dude is pulling in bank by strectching out one boxer. Hooray from Mr. Garcia, why not? It's all B.S. anyway, right? Now, he doesn't handle cuts or wrap hands, that's Joe Chavez. He doesn't train the boxer, that's Floyd Sr., he doesn't carry the bottle, that's brother Joel. So what the Hell does Mr Garcia do? He makes Oscar some real cool meals, lots of healthy crap, I'm all for it! He also keeps tabs on his muscle strength, injuries, etc. Is this important and or necessary? You bet it is, however, in the old days, that was just one of many jobs handled by the trainer. Cuts are often a specialty concession, and an outside guy comes in on fight night, or not, usually just a cornerman trys to stop bleeding.

Anyway, things change.

-Rick

[Rick Farris]

Another painting of Gato by diego

Geez, Dagos . . . you've captured "El Gato" perfectly! As my Brit friends would say, "Brilliant!"

Hey champ, I would say you have a few friends here.

-Ricardo

[Rick Farris]

Audie Aragon remembers his father, Art Aragon, the original "Golden Boy".

I met Audie when we both were breaking into the film industry at Universal in the mid-70's, he as a grip, and myself a lighting tech. His brother, Art Jr. was killed in a motorcycle accident, on his way to work as a grip on a Michael Jackson film, "Moon Walker", in the late 80's. I recall him not showing up on the set for work one day, and this was not like Art Jr. A couple hours later, a phone call notified the production company that Art Aragon Jr. had died on his motorcycle on his way to Universal Studios back lot, where we were shooting.

I didn't know Art Jr. as well as I do Audie. Audie is a highly respected film tech, who works on big budget motion pics. His memories of his father were touching and captured the hearts of the 400 plus guests he was addressing. It's always good to see Audie Aragon, and don't be surprised to see him rep his pop at the WBHOF banquet.

-Rick

[dagosd2000]

Another painting of Gato by diego

Geez, Dagos . . . you've captured "El Gato" perfectly! As my Brit friends would say, "Brilliant!"

Hey champ, I would say you have a few friends here.

-Ricardo

Thanks
I want to thank Frank for helping me get "El Gato"on there. Next time though when he takes up boxing,I'm going to tell him not to get his nose broke. Broken noses are tough to paint. There's a special course on painting broken noses(just kidding).

You're right about these "special conditioners". They may get these guys in shape for a triathalon,but can they teach boxing skills? No.I was watching a replay of Patterson and Chuvalo. Not the greatest of heavyweight fights,but I was intrigued by the skill level of both fighters. Even Chuvalo. Slipping punches,counter punching. Just their movement in the ring was impressive. The leverage they put in their punches. Today,I've seen so many fighters that can't throw a right hand properly.

Last,I want to wish all the mothers of the posters out there a "Happy Mothers Day". We'll try to give you a little more attention and get away from the computer.

[dagosd2000]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

I don't know how you guys feel,but I like the "cut" of the jacket that way. Like the ones the two Gonzalezes and LaBell are wearing. I think it contours the body better. Today I see these athletes with these suits that have the lapels choking their necks. The heavy guys that wear these kinds of suits look like some of my wife's tamales on Christmas Eve.

[Expug]

Another painting of Gato by diego

Geez, Dagos . . . you've captured "El Gato" perfectly! As my Brit friends would say, "Brilliant!"

Hey champ, I would say you have a few friends here.

-Ricardo

Thanks
I want to thank Frank for helping me get "El Gato"on there. Next time though when he takes up boxing,I'm going to tell him not to get his nose broke. Broken noses are tough to paint. There's a special course on painting broken noses(just kidding).

You're right about these "special conditioners". They may get these guys in shape for a triathalon,but can they teach boxing skills? No.I was watching a replay of Patterson and Chuvalo. Not the greatest of heavyweight fights,but I was intrigued by the skill level of both fighters. Even Chuvalo. Slipping punches,counter punching. Just their movement in the ring was impressive. The leverage they put in their punches. Today,I've seen so many fighters that can't throw a right hand properly.

Last,I want to wish all the mothers of the posters out there a "Happy Mothers Day". We'll try to give you a little more attention and get away from the computer.

Wonderful work there Dagos.
You are an artist my friend.
Speaking of triathalons , I had a conversation with some dingbat at a party a few years ago.
Somebody told her Id had some fights.
She scoffed and said that nothing is tougher than The Chicago Marathon.
Like Id never done anything.
I told her that boxing was like running a marathon while somebody is beating your ass.
I dont know if I got the point across or not.

[dagosd2000]

Geez, Dagos . . . you've captured "El Gato" perfectly! As my Brit friends would say, "Brilliant!"

Hey champ, I would say you have a few friends here.

-Ricardo

Thanks
I want to thank Frank for helping me get "El Gato"on there. Next time though when he takes up boxing,I'm going to tell him not to get his nose broke. Broken noses are tough to paint. There's a special course on painting broken noses(just kidding).

You're right about these "special conditioners". They may get these guys in shape for a triathalon,but can they teach boxing skills? No.I was watching a replay of Patterson and Chuvalo. Not the greatest of heavyweight fights,but I was intrigued by the skill level of both fighters. Even Chuvalo. Slipping punches,counter punching. Just their movement in the ring was impressive. The leverage they put in their punches. Today,I've seen so many fighters that can't throw a right hand properly.

Last,I want to wish all the mothers of the posters out there a "Happy Mothers Day". We'll try to give you a little more attention and get away from the computer.

Wonderful work there Dagos.
You are an artist my friend.
Speaking of triathalons , I had a conversation with some dingbat at a party a few years ago.
Somebody told her Id had some fights.
She scoffed and said that nothing is tougher than The Chicago Marathon.
Like Id never done anything.
I told her that boxing was like running a marathon while somebody is beating your ass.
I dont know if I got the point across or not.

Pug
She's nothing but a bluff. You should have told her,"OK,I'll race you in the Chicago Marathon. And after you beat me,you get in the ring with me,and when it's over tell me your second thoughts. After your jaw heals."

[Expug]

Its what weve talked about in this thread quite a bit.
Things are different in many ways nowadays.
Not too much courtesy at all.
Everyones always trying to one up everyone else.
Belittle each other. Lotta ridiculous browbeating going on.

[kikibalt]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

I don't know how you guys feel,but I like the "cut" of the jacket that way. Like the ones the two Gonzalezes and LaBell are wearing. I think it contours the body better. Today I see these athletes with these suits that have the lapels choking their necks. The heavy guys that wear these kinds of suits look like some of my wife's tamales on Christmas Eve.

diego,
Remember when suits were "cut" like this?

[dagosd2000]

Its what weve talked about in this thread quite a bit.
Things are different in many ways nowadays.
Not too much courtesy at all.
Everyones always trying to one up everyone else.
Belittle each other. Lotta ridiculous browbeating going on.

That's why I feel at ease around you and Frank,Rick,Bennie,Scar,and the rest of the crew.I was never on one of these Forums before. At first I liked expressing myself,then I found out that it became nothing but back and forth name calling. Most posters are decent,but there's a handfull out there that are insulting. Then there are the ones that if you don't agree with them,they'll be sure to always get the final word in to prove that you're wrong. And then the lists. The ten best. The ten worst. Or who could have beaten who? This thread,unless we get blindsided,stays away from the arguing. When someone baits us,we skirt around them. They're on the "Pay No Mind List." We "kid" each other pretty good sometimes,but that comic relief is a blessing and enhances the thread.

We've run the gamut of emotions here. Some of the moments are very touching. Other times we're making each other laugh. We know when someone is down,and then we rally around the guy. We're looking out for each other. We get into a rhythm sometimes when we're off topic. Some of the gags are priceless. Like I've said, this is a running social commentary with the sport of boxing being its catalyst.

BTW,if you guys don't agree with me on the way suit lapels should look,you're really gonna' piss me off.

[dagosd2000]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

I don't know how you guys feel,but I like the "cut" of the jacket that way. Like the ones the two Gonzalezes and LaBell are wearing. I think it contours the body better. Today I see these athletes with these suits that have the lapels choking their necks. The heavy guys that wear these kinds of suits look like some of my wife's tamales on Christmas Eve.

diego,
Remember when suits were "cut" like this?

Geez Frank
I'm writing that last post,and I come back and see the suit ads. Like I said,we look out for each other. What's beginning to worry me though is we're beginning to read each other's minds.

[Rick Farris]

In the 60's, if you fought on the amateur portion of Thursday night's "Boxing from the Olympic", the winner would receive a lawn edger, or a sweater from Richard's Clothes For Men, on Spring St. downtown L.A.

-Rick Farris

[dagosd2000]

In the 60's, if you fought on the amateur portion of Thursday night's "Boxing from the Olympic", the winner would receive a lawn edger, or a sweater from Richard's Clothes For Men, on Spring St. downtown L.A.

-Rick Farris

Rick
You're so right about that. I remember Archie Moore was always getting approached by someone for a favor. When he fought Durelle the first time he had"Diamond Imports" written on the back of his robe. One time Murray Goodrich,who owned an Army surplus store(remember them?)gave Moore a robe that said"Goodrich On Main" on the back of it. I asked Archie what did he get for that. He told me he got a "pup" tent.

Funny,I don't remember Archie being much for going camping in the woods.

[dagosd2000]

Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez. Gene LeBell & Paul Gonzalez March 13, 2008

I don't know how you guys feel,but I like the "cut" of the jacket that way. Like the ones the two Gonzalezes and LaBell are wearing. I think it contours the body better. Today I see these athletes with these suits that have the lapels choking their necks. The heavy guys that wear these kinds of suits look like some of my wife's tamales on Christmas Eve.

diego,
Remember when suits were "cut" like this?

Now that's a suit. My tailor was Gino Albertini. He had a shop down in Little Italy. A real artist. "Shooey" Joe is still there. He's the cobbler. He can fix a shoe like new. Do anything that needs to be done. If you need a shoestring,he'll tell you to grab one off the wall free of charge. Usually get out of there not spending more than ten bucks. Likes baseball,but has posters and pictures of AC Milan Soccer team all over the wall. Then there's "Bushy" the Produce Guy. We call him "Bushy" cause he has this head of hair that grows out like an Afro.Has the best eggplant and bell peppers in town. Across the street is "Piggy" the Butcher. His last name is Pignatelli. No explanation needed. Veal that you can cut with a fork. Make your brains fall out. And last but not least,Joey "Olives" who owns the Italian Deli. The best ricotta in the United States. My Italian grandmother from Chicago said that so I know it's true.And only the best Italian olive oil. Bertolli is what we use.

Yeah,you got to pick and choose if you want it the way you like it. Who cares if you have to buy it from a guy they call "Piggy?"

[raylawpc]

Jimmy Heair fought in Oklahoma City right after his first pro loss to Rudy Barro, and I was in his opponent's corner. I was really looking forward to seeing him fight because of all the good press he got out in LA when he was coming up. Even though he beat my guy in three rounds, I wasn't overly impressed, and I didn't think he lived up to his PR.

I was more impressed with his wife - who was a bit of a dish, if I recall correctly. (Most fighters don't bring their wives on road trips, but I'm glad he did. ) Carlos Ortiz brought his wife with him when he fought in Oklahoma City - she was a nice looking gal too.

Ray (Tom) . . . I'll get Frank a few shots of Carlos Ortiz and his wife, Maria, taken at last year at the WBHOF Banquet, where Dan Hanley and I, interviewed Ortiz, along with Mando Ramos, Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez, Yaqui Lopez, Mando Muniz, George Benton and others. I have some nice stills taken that day, ome of which Frank Baltazar was kind enough to post here., Thanks to Frank, a lot of great history and memorabelia is seen here. I'd post them myself, but I'm not computor savvy.

-Rick

Thanks Rick

[raylawpc]

Jimmy Heair fought in Oklahoma City right after his first pro loss to Rudy Barro, and I was in his opponent's corner. I was really looking forward to seeing him fight because of all the good press he got out in LA when he was coming up. Even though he beat my guy in three rounds, I wasn't overly impressed, and I didn't think he lived up to his PR.

I was more impressed with his wife - who was a bit of a dish, if I recall correctly. (Most fighters don't bring their wives on road trips, but I'm glad he did. ) Carlos Ortiz brought his wife with him when he fought in Oklahoma City - she was a nice looking gal too.

Tom always lookin' at the gals...

The boss says I can look as long as I don't touch. . .