it isnt he has fought a bunch of nobodys continues to call himself a two time world champ he is extrememly talented but he seems to run away from the best compitition. and when he has stepped up has gotten beaten kessler was a good fight he was winning the ottke fight but manny siaca was just embarresinggranberry wrote:Bernard,BERNARD BRIGGS. wrote:ali was like mundine and akways fought his fighters 2 years after there prime
I don't know much about Mundine; can you give more detail on this?
From his record Mundine looks impressive.
ali over rated
Liston, Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley were at their 'best' when Ali fought them?p4p1 wrote:you must be joking they are nothing alike ali fought the best beat the best at the time they were on offer he didnt duck or hide from anyoneBERNARD BRIGGS. wrote:ali was like mundine and akways fought his fighters 2 years after there prime
i never said they were but it wasnt his fault that they were not mundine waits for them to not be that is the differencegranberry wrote:Liston, Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Zora Folley were at their 'best' when Ali fought them?p4p1 wrote:you must be joking they are nothing alike ali fought the best beat the best at the time they were on offer he didnt duck or hide from anyoneBERNARD BRIGGS. wrote:ali was like mundine and akways fought his fighters 2 years after there prime
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Smokin'Moe
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 22 Jan 2008, 17:08
When Ali and Frazier got into the ring as undefeated fighters
Ali left the ring as a defeated fighter.
Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back in the 15th round.
Frazier also knocked Ali down in the 11th
but the 'referee', who had stuck his fingers in Frazier's eye in the previous round, called it a "slip."
For the rest of the 11th round, Ali staggered around so badly that even Ali salesman Ferdie Pacheco called it "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote.
Frazier's manager and trainer Yank Durham was alive and present for that fight, so Eddie Futch had no opportunity to betray Frazier.
The other two fights are of no significance, except of course to Ali partisans who are desperate to hide from the fact that Joe Frazier (who no one ever called the greatest fighter of all time), beat the hell out of undefeated Ali and knocked him flat on his back.
They can't swallow that, so they awkwardly try to focus attention away from that.[/quote]
i havent read every page of this topic but i agree with this 100%
I've always wondered WHY no one began calling the man who beat ali as the 'greatest"
wouldnt it make sense? Frazier needs to be given his due and he is one of the GREATEST fighters ever
Ali left the ring as a defeated fighter.
Frazier knocked Ali flat on his back in the 15th round.
Frazier also knocked Ali down in the 11th
but the 'referee', who had stuck his fingers in Frazier's eye in the previous round, called it a "slip."
For the rest of the 11th round, Ali staggered around so badly that even Ali salesman Ferdie Pacheco called it "the terrible 11th" in a book he wrote.
Frazier's manager and trainer Yank Durham was alive and present for that fight, so Eddie Futch had no opportunity to betray Frazier.
The other two fights are of no significance, except of course to Ali partisans who are desperate to hide from the fact that Joe Frazier (who no one ever called the greatest fighter of all time), beat the hell out of undefeated Ali and knocked him flat on his back.
They can't swallow that, so they awkwardly try to focus attention away from that.[/quote]
i havent read every page of this topic but i agree with this 100%
I've always wondered WHY no one began calling the man who beat ali as the 'greatest"
wouldnt it make sense? Frazier needs to be given his due and he is one of the GREATEST fighters ever
Frazier hit Ali on the chin with his left hook near the start of the 11th round and Ali went down on both knees.
Merchante (who had poked his finger in Frazier's eye in the previous round) ran in and called it a "slip."
Frazier, who was waiting in a a neutral corner, looked astonished.
In the rest of that round Ali staggered around the ring so badly that even Ali shill Ferdie Pacheco called "the terrible eleventh" in a book he wrote.
All that is perfectly visible.
Ali was visibly hurt much worse than Ron Lyle was when the ref stopped his fight with Ali and declared Ali the TKO "winner."
Merchante (who had poked his finger in Frazier's eye in the previous round) ran in and called it a "slip."
Frazier, who was waiting in a a neutral corner, looked astonished.
In the rest of that round Ali staggered around the ring so badly that even Ali shill Ferdie Pacheco called "the terrible eleventh" in a book he wrote.
All that is perfectly visible.
Ali was visibly hurt much worse than Ron Lyle was when the ref stopped his fight with Ali and declared Ali the TKO "winner."
Here's Ali-Frazier rd. 11 on YouTube. Everybody can see for themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vSGwEhB2U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vSGwEhB2U
Last edited by raylawpc on 14 May 2008, 16:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Smokin'Moe
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 22 Jan 2008, 17:08
i must admit i watch the FOTC about every couple of weeks (probly my favorite fight)raylawpc wrote:Hi Moe:
Do you think Mercante deliberately poked Frazier in the eye?
Did anyone in the Frazier camp maintain that Frazier decked Ali in the 11th? I don't recall if that they did.
i never seen mercante stickin his fingers in fraziers eye although i do remember a confusing part in the later rounds when frazier starts walking off a little bit and yells something to his corner...i dont know what about though
i for one believe ali slipped but the whoopin he received at the end of the round should have been called a standing eight count cuz you cant be flopping around like a fish outta water during a fight like that
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Smokin'Moe
- Heavyweight
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Really?? so that must be why he was shoutin to his corner..raylawpc wrote:Thanks Moe. BTW, Mercante admits in his autobiography that he accidentially stuck his finger in Frazier's eye, and Frazier complained loudly about it. (Who can blame him?)
mercante refereed tons of title fights..whats his book called?
Moe, its called Inside the Ropes. Not a bad book.
For someone interested in the old timers, the best book by a referee is a gem called Inside Pugilism by George Siler.
In addition to being a referee, Siler was the boxing correspondent for the Chicago Tribune. He was really a terrific writer in that quaint turn-of-the-century style. My goal is to someday edit an anthology of his columns from the Tribune. They paint a vivid picture of boxing at the start of the MQ days.
For someone interested in the old timers, the best book by a referee is a gem called Inside Pugilism by George Siler.
In addition to being a referee, Siler was the boxing correspondent for the Chicago Tribune. He was really a terrific writer in that quaint turn-of-the-century style. My goal is to someday edit an anthology of his columns from the Tribune. They paint a vivid picture of boxing at the start of the MQ days.
Merchante DROVE his fingers upward into Frazier's eye in what is call a knife-hand in some types of martial arts.
He was trying to break a clinch (caused by Ali, of course) and missed the fighters' arms as he drove his hand upward with the fingers bunched together straight into Frazier's eye.
If he had done that to Ali, we would never hear the end of it.
But he did it to Frazier, so who cares.
He was trying to break a clinch (caused by Ali, of course) and missed the fighters' arms as he drove his hand upward with the fingers bunched together straight into Frazier's eye.
If he had done that to Ali, we would never hear the end of it.
But he did it to Frazier, so who cares.
