Clinching a Foul

[Ambling Alp]

As for the clinching goes, it dpends on what you consider a clinch. It says no "hugging" or wrestling.

If you clinch, are you atleast technically "hugging"?

If you clinch, are you atleast technically "wrestling"?

The bigger question what is the penalty?
Should there be warnings?
If so, if it contiunes should the next step be points being deducted? If so, how many warnings before points are deducted?
If it still continues, at what point should there be a disqualification ?

Is there any further information of the Marquis of Queensbury Rules that address this?
It's not suprising that there are going to be problems if there are rules outlawing things but don't specify the penalty.

[raylawpc]

As for the clinching goes, it dpends on what you consider a clinch. It says no "hugging" or wrestling.

If you clinch, are you atleast technically "hugging"?

If you clinch, are you atleast technically "wrestling"?

The bigger question what is the penalty?
Should there be warnings?
If so, if it contiunes should the next step be points being deducted? If so, how many warnings before points are deducted?
If it still continues, at what point should there be a disqualification ?

Is there any further information of the Marquis of Queensbury Rules that address this?
It's not suprising that there are going to be problems if there are rules outlawing things but don't specify the penalty.

Nobody follows the MQ rules anymore. Every commission has its own rules, based on the MQ rules, but nobody follows the MQ rules anymore.

Here are Nevada's rules concerning fouls, etc:

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS FOR CONTESTS AND EXHIBITIONS

NAC 467.586 Unarmed combatants must report before contest or exhibition. (NRS 467.030) Each unarmed combatant must report to the representative of the Commission in charge of dressing rooms before the scheduled time of the first contest or exhibition of a program of unarmed combat.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 20, eff, 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97)

NAC 467.592 Proper attire and equipment of unarmed combatants. (NRS 467.030)

1. Each unarmed combatant must provide himself with a costume, which is subject to the approval of the Commission or its representative.

2. Each unarmed combatant must appear in proper attire. The unarmed combatants may not wear the same colors in the ring or, if the contest or exhibition is being held in a fenced area, in the fenced area, without the approval of the Commission’s representative.

3. The belt of the trunks must not extend above the waist line.

4. Each unarmed combatant must wear:

(a) A mouthpiece which has been individually fitted; and

(b) An abdominal protector which will protect him against injury from a foul blow. The abdominal protector must not cover or extend above the umbilicus.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 19, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001; R076-03, 12-3-2003)

NAC 467.598 Physical appearance of unarmed combatants. (NRS 467.030)

1. Each unarmed combatant must be clean and present a tidy appearance.

2. The excessive use of grease or any other foreign substance may not be used on the face or body of an unarmed combatant. The referees or the Commission’s representative in charge shall cause any excessive grease or foreign substance to be removed.

3. The Commission’s representative shall determine whether head or facial hair presents any hazard to the safety of the unarmed combatant or his opponent or will interfere with the supervision and conduct of the contest or exhibition. If the head or facial hair of an unarmed combatant presents such a hazard or will interfere with the supervision and conduct of the contest or exhibition, the unarmed combatant may not compete in the contest or exhibition unless the circumstances creating the hazard or potential interference are corrected to the satisfaction of the Commission’s representative.

4. An unarmed combatant may not wear any jewelry or other piercing accessories while competing in the contest or exhibition.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 18, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.605 Procedure for use of scorecards. (NRS 467.030)

1. The Commission’s representative in charge at a contest or exhibition shall, before the start of the contest or exhibition, give scorecards to each judge if the contest or exhibition is being judged.

2. The judges shall score each round of the contest or exhibition on an individual scorecard and sign it. The referee shall pick up the scorecard from each judge and turn in the scorecards at the Commission’s desk before the start of each round.

3. The Commission’s representative may show the scorecards to accredited representatives of the press after the completion of the contest or exhibition.

4. The Commission’s representative shall mail or deliver the scorecards with the rest of his reports regarding the contest or exhibition to the office of the Commission.

5. Reports of each contest or exhibition will be kept on file in the office of the Commission.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 41, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.612 Method of judging boxing contest or exhibition. (NRS 467.030)

1. Each judge of a boxing contest or exhibition that is being judged shall score the contest or exhibition and determine the winner through the use of the following system:

(a) The better boxer of a round receives 10 points and his opponent proportionately less.

(b) If the round is even, each boxer receives 10 points.

(c) No fraction of points may be given.

(d) Points for each round must be awarded immediately after the end of the period of unarmed combat in the round.

2. After the end of the boxing contest or exhibition, the announcer shall pick up the scores of the judges from the Commission’s desk. The majority opinion is conclusive and, if there is no majority, the decision is a draw.

3. When the representative of the Commission has checked the scores, he shall inform the announcer of the decision and the announcer shall inform the audience of the decision over the speaker system.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 42, eff. 7-3-79]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.628 Conduct of chief second and assistant seconds; instructions to unarmed combatants by referee. (NRS 467.030) The referee shall, before starting a contest or exhibition, ascertain from each unarmed combatant the name of his chief second, and shall hold the chief second responsible for the conduct of the assistant seconds during the progress of the contest or exhibition. The referee shall call unarmed combatants together before each contest or exhibition for final instructions, at which time each unarmed combatant must be accompanied by his chief second.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 21, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97)

NAC 467.635 Limitations on seconds. (NRS 467.030)

1. No unarmed combatant may have more than three seconds except that in a contest for a world title or in a special event the Commission may authorize four seconds.

2. Only one of the seconds may be inside the ring ropes during a period of rest.

3. A second may not coach loudly or excessively from the corners during a period of unarmed combat.

4. Any excessive or undue spraying or throwing of water on an unarmed combatant by a second during a period of rest is prohibited.

[Athletic Comm’n, §§ 74-76, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.642 Duties of ringside physician. (NRS 467.030)

1. The ringside physician designated by the Commission shall sit at the immediate ringside at every contest or exhibition. A contest or exhibition may not proceed unless the ringside physician is in his seat at ringside. The ringside physician shall not leave until after the decision in the final contest or exhibition. He shall be prepared to assist if any serious emergency arises and shall render temporary or emergency treatments for cuts and minor injuries sustained by the unarmed combatants.

2. If an unarmed combatant appears to have been injured during a period of unarmed combat, his manager or second shall not attempt to render aid to him before the ringside physician has had an opportunity to examine him.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 49, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.649 Warning before start of round. (NRS 467.030) Ten seconds before the beginning of each round the timekeeper shall give warning to the seconds of the unarmed combatants by blowing a whistle.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 81, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97)

NAC 467.655 Duration of round. (NRS 467.030, 467.150)

1. A round of unarmed combat, other than the final round, includes a period of unarmed combat and a period of rest that follows immediately after the period of unarmed combat. The final round of unarmed combat includes only a period of unarmed combat.

2. Except for contests or exhibitions of mixed martial arts and elimination boxing contests, a period of unarmed combat must be 3 minutes in duration, unless a shorter duration is approved by the Chairman of the Commission or the Commission’s representative. A period of rest following a period of unarmed combat must be 1 minute in duration, unless a different duration is approved by the Chairman of the Commission or the Commission’s representative.

3. A round of unarmed combat, other than the first round, does not begin until the immediately preceding period of rest has ended and the bell sounds signaling commencement of the round. The first round of unarmed combat begins when the bell sounds signaling commencement of the contest or exhibition.

(Added to NAC by Athletic Comm’n, eff. 12-13-82; A 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.662 Persons allowed in ring. (NRS 467.030)

1. No persons other than the unarmed combatants and the referee may be in the ring or, if the contest or exhibition is being held in a fenced area, in the fenced area, during the progress of a period of unarmed combat.

2. The referee may, in his discretion, stop a contest or exhibition if an unauthorized person enters the ring or fenced area during a round.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 22, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.668 Fair blow in boxing. (NRS 467.030) A fair blow in boxing is one delivered with the padded knuckle part of the glove on the front or side of the head or the front or side of the body above the belt.

[Athletic Comm’n, part § 26 & § 27, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.675 Acts constituting fouls in boxing. (NRS 467.030) The following acts constitute fouls in boxing:

1. Hitting below the belt.

2. Hitting an opponent who is down or is getting up after being down.

3. Holding an opponent with one hand and hitting with the other.

4. Holding or deliberately maintaining a clinch.

5. Wrestling or kicking.

6. If the referee has signaled that the opponent has been knocked out, striking an opponent who is helpless as a result of previous blows and so supported by the ropes that he does not fall.

7. Butting with the head or shoulder or using the knee.

8. Hitting with the open glove, the butt of the hand, the wrist or the elbow, and all backhand blows.

9. Purposely going down without being hit.

10. Striking deliberately at that part of the body over the kidneys.

11. Deliberately using the rabbit punch.

12. Jabbing the opponent’s eyes with the thumb of the glove.

13. Using abusive language in the ring.

14. Engaging in any unsportsmanlike trick or action which causes injury to an opponent.

15. Hitting on the break.

16. Hitting after the bell has sounded the end of the period of unarmed combat.

17. Hitting an opponent whose head is between and outside of the ropes.

18. Pushing an opponent about the ring or into the ropes.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 23, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.682 Duties of referee; warnings; deduction of points; disqualification. (NRS 467.030)

1. A referee is responsible for enforcing the rules of the contest or exhibition. He shall not permit unfair practices that may cause injuries to an unarmed combatant.

2. The referee shall warn the unarmed combatants whenever they are committing fouls.

3. If an unarmed combatant commits a foul, the referee may deduct points from him or disqualify him.

[Athletic Comm’n, part § 26, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.688 Fouls: Deduction of points; effect of low blow. (NRS 467.030)

1. If an unarmed combatant fouls his opponent during a contest or exhibition or commits any other infraction, the referee may penalize him by deducting points from his score, whether or not the foul or infraction was intentional. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2 of NAC 467.698, the referee may determine the number of points to be deducted in each instance and shall base his determination on the severity of the foul or infraction and its effect upon the opponent.

2. When the referee determines that it is necessary to deduct a point or points because of a foul or infraction, he shall warn the offender of the penalty to be assessed.

3. The referee shall, as soon as is practical after the foul, notify the judges and both unarmed combatants of the number of points, if any, to be deducted from the score of the offender.

4. Any point or points to be deducted for any foul or infraction must be deducted in the round in which the foul or infraction occurred, and may not be deducted from the score of any subsequent round.

5. An unarmed combatant may not be declared the winner of a contest or exhibition on the basis of his claim that his opponent committed a foul by hitting him below the belt. If an unarmed combatant falls to the floor of the ring or otherwise indicates that he is unwilling to continue because of a claim of a low blow, the contest or exhibition must be declared to be a technical knockout in favor of the unarmed combatant who is willing to continue.

6. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, §§ 31 & 43, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.695 Fouls: Disqualification; withholding of purse. (NRS 467.030) An unarmed combatant guilty of a foul in a contest or exhibition may be disqualified by the referee and his purse ordered withheld by a Commissioner or the Commission’s representative. Disposition of the purse and the penalty to be imposed upon the unarmed combatant will be determined by the Commission.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 24, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 11-2-88; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.698 Fouls: Intentional. (NRS 467.030)

1. If the referee determines that a contest or exhibition may not continue because of an injury caused by an intentional foul, the unarmed combatant who committed the intentional foul loses by disqualification.

2. If the referee determines that a contest or exhibition may continue despite an injury caused by an intentional foul, the referee shall immediately inform the Commission’s representative and the judges and shall deduct two points from the score of the unarmed combatant who committed the intentional foul.

3. If an injury caused by an intentional foul results in the contest or exhibition being stopped in a later round:

(a) The injured unarmed combatant wins by technical decision, if he is ahead on the scorecards; or

(b) The contest or exhibition must be declared a technical draw, if the injured unarmed combatant is behind or even on the scorecards.

4. If an unarmed combatant injures himself while attempting to foul his opponent, the referee shall not take any action in his favor and the injury must be treated the same as an injury produced by a fair blow.

(Added to NAC by Athletic Comm’n by R070-01, eff. 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.702 Fouls: Accidental. (NRS 467.030)

1. If a contest or exhibition is stopped because of an accidental foul, the referee shall determine whether the unarmed combatant who has been fouled can continue or not. If the unarmed combatant’s chance of winning has not been seriously jeopardized as a result of a foul and if the foul did not involve a concussive impact to the head of the unarmed combatant who was fouled, the referee may order the contest or exhibition continued after a reasonable interval. Before the contest or exhibition begins again, the referee shall inform the Commission’s representative of his determination that the foul was accidental.

2. If the referee determines that the contest or exhibition may not continue because of an injury suffered as the result of an accidental foul, the contest or exhibition must be declared a no decision if the foul occurs during:

(a) The first three rounds of a contest or exhibition that is scheduled for six rounds or less; or

(b) The first four rounds of a contest or exhibition that is scheduled for more than six rounds.

3. If an accidental foul renders an unarmed combatant unable to continue the contest or exhibition after:

(a) The completed third round of a contest or exhibition that is scheduled for six rounds or less; or

(b) The completed fourth round of a contest or exhibition that is scheduled for more than six rounds,

Ê the outcome must be determined by scoring the completed rounds and the round during which the referee stops the contest or exhibition.

4. If an injury inflicted by an accidental foul later becomes aggravated by fair blows and the referee orders the contest or exhibition stopped because of the injury, the outcome must be determined by scoring the completed rounds and the round during which the referee stops the contest or exhibition.

5. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 25, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001; R076-03, 12-3-2003; R058-05, 12-29-2005)

NAC 467.713 Determination to stop contest or exhibition: Injury to unarmed combatant. (NRS 467.030) The referee shall determine whether a contest or exhibition should be stopped because of an injury to an unarmed combatant.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 77, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.718 Determination to stop contest or exhibition: One-sided contest or exhibition; risk of serious injury. (NRS 467.030) The referee may stop a contest or exhibition at any stage if he considers it too one-sided or if either unarmed combatant is in such a condition that to continue might subject him to serious injury.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 29, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 8-26-83; 11-2-88; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.723 Determination to stop contest or exhibition: Unarmed combatant not honestly competing. (NRS 467.030) If the referee decides that an unarmed combatant is not honestly competing, he may stop the contest or exhibition before its scheduled completion, disqualify the unarmed combatant and recommend the purse of that unarmed combatant be held pending investigation by the Commission.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 30, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.728 Leaving ring during period of rest prohibited; effect of failure to resume competition. (NRS 467.030) An unarmed combatant shall not leave the ring or, if the contest or exhibition is being held in a fenced area, the fenced area, during any period of rest that follows a period of unarmed combat. If an unarmed combatant fails or refuses to resume competing when the bell sounds signaling the commencement of the next round, the referee shall award a decision of technical knockout to his opponent as of the round which has last been finished, unless the circumstances indicate to the referee the need for investigation or punitive action, in which event the referee shall not give a decision and shall recommend that the purse or purses of either or both unarmed combatants be withheld.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 33, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.735 Gloves to be wiped by referee after fall of unarmed combatant. (NRS 467.030)

1. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 2, before an unarmed combatant may resume competing after having been knocked or having fallen or slipped to the floor of the ring, the referee shall wipe the gloves of the unarmed combatant with a damp towel or the referee’s shirt.

2. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 34, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.740 Procedure for counting; knockdown; knockout; technical draw. (NRS 467.030)

1. When an unarmed combatant is knocked down, the referee shall order the opponent to retire to the farthest neutral corner of the ring, by pointing to the corner, and shall immediately begin the count over the unarmed combatant who is down. The referee shall audibly announce the passing of the seconds, accompanying the count with motions of his arm, with the downward motion indicating the end of each second.

2. The timekeeper, by effective signaling, shall give the referee the correct 1-second interval for his count. The referee’s count is the official count. Once the referee picks up the count from the timekeeper, the timekeeper shall cease counting. No unarmed combatant who is knocked down may be allowed to resume competing until the referee has finished counting to eight. The unarmed combatant may take the count either on the floor or standing.

3. If the opponent fails to stay in the farthest corner, the referee shall cease counting until he has returned to his corner and shall then go on with the count from the point at which it was interrupted. If the unarmed combatant who is down arises before the count of 10, the referee may step between the unarmed combatants long enough to assure himself that the unarmed combatant who has just arisen is in condition to continue. If so assured, he shall, without loss of time, order both unarmed combatants to go on with the contest or exhibition. During the intervention by the referee, the striking of a blow by either unarmed combatant may be ruled a foul.

4. When an unarmed combatant is knocked out, the referee shall perform a full 10-second count unless, in the judgment of the referee, the safety of the unarmed combatant would be jeopardized by such a count. If the unarmed combatant who is knocked down is still down when the referee calls the count of 10, the referee shall wave both arms to indicate that he has been knocked out.

5. If both unarmed combatants go down at the same time, the count must be continued as long as one is still down. If both unarmed combatants remain down until the count of 10, the contest or exhibition must be stopped and the decision is a technical draw.

6. If an unarmed combatant is down and the referee is in the course of counting at the end of a period of unarmed combat, the bell indicating the end of the period of unarmed combat must not be sounded, but the bell must be sounded as soon as the downed unarmed combatant regains his feet.

7. When an unarmed combatant has been knocked down before the normal termination of a period of unarmed combat and the period of unarmed combat terminates before he has arisen from the floor of the ring, the referee’s count must be continued. If the unarmed combatant who is down fails to arise before the count of 10, he is considered to have lost the contest or exhibition by a knockout in the round containing the period of unarmed combat that was just concluded.

8. If a legal blow struck in the final seconds of a period of unarmed combat causes an unarmed combatant to go down after the bell has sounded, that knockdown must be regarded as having occurred during the period of unarmed combat just ended and the appropriate count must continue.

9. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 35, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 11-2-88; 12-2-97; R083-00, 9-22-2000; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.745 Resumption of count in certain circumstances. (NRS 467.030)

1. If a knockdown occurs before the normal termination of a period of unarmed combat and the unarmed combatant who is down stands up before the count of 10 is reached and then falls down immediately without being struck, the referee shall resume the count where it was left off.

2. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 36, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.748 Adjudication of technical knockout. (NRS 467.030)

1. If a contest or exhibition is terminated because an unarmed combatant is:

(a) Unable to continue;

(b) Not honestly competing;

(c) Injured; or

(d) Disqualified,

Ê it may be adjudged a technical knockout to the credit of the winner.

2. Except as otherwise provided in subsection 3, a contest or exhibition which is won by other than a full count of 10 or the scoring of the judges must be adjudged a technical knockout to the credit of the winner.

3. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

(Added to NAC by Athletic Comm’n, eff. 11-2-88; A 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.752 Treatment of unarmed combatant after knockout or technical knockout; placement on ill and unavailable list; reinstatement. (NRS 467.030)

1. An unarmed combatant who has been knocked out must be kept in a prone position until he has recovered. Except for the referee or chief second who may remove his mouthpiece, no one may touch him until the ringside physician enters the ring, attends him and issues any instructions to his handlers.

2. If the referee has rendered a decision of technical knockout against an unarmed combatant, the unarmed combatant must be placed on the ill and unavailable list for a period designated by the Commission’s representative after consultation with the Commission’s physician, but that period must not be less than 15 days. The unarmed combatant may not engage in any contest or exhibition during this period without the approval of the Commission.

3. If an unarmed combatant has been knocked out by a blow to the head, he must be placed on the ill and unavailable list for at least 45 days, unless the Commission orders that he be placed on the ill and unavailable list for a different period. Before he is reinstated, he must satisfactorily pass an examination performed with a computerized tomographic scanning device or an electroencephalogram, or both, if the Commission or its physician finds that such an examination is necessary to determine his condition.

4. Whenever it appears that an unarmed combatant may have suffered a head injury, he must undergo such an examination if directed to do so by the Commission or its physician.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 51, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 8-26-83; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.757 Procedure when unarmed combatant has fallen through or been knocked through ropes. (NRS 467.030)

1. An unarmed combatant who has been knocked or has fallen through the ropes and over the edge of the ring platform during a contest or exhibition:

(a) May be helped back by anyone except his seconds or manager; and

(b) Will be given 20 seconds to return to the ring.

2. An unarmed combatant who has been knocked or has fallen on the ring platform outside the ropes, but not over the edge of the ring platform:

(a) May not be helped back by anyone, including, without limitation, his seconds or manager; and

(b) Will be given 10 seconds to regain his feet and get back into the ring.

3. If the seconds or manager of the unarmed combatant who has been knocked or has fallen pursuant to subsections 1 and 2 helps the unarmed combatant back into the ring, such help may be cause for disqualification.

4. When one unarmed combatant has fallen through the ropes, the other unarmed combatant shall retire to the farthest corner and stay there until ordered to continue the contest or exhibition by the referee.

5. An unarmed combatant who deliberately wrestles or throws an opponent from the ring, or who hits him when he is partly out of the ring and is prevented by the ropes from assuming a position of defense, may be penalized.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 37, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97; R083-00, 9-22-2000)

NAC 467.760 Determination of whether unarmed combatant is down; effect of hanging onto or being held up by ropes. (NRS 467.030)

1. An unarmed combatant shall be deemed to be down when:

(a) Any part of his body other than his feet is on the floor; or

(b) He is hanging over the ropes without the ability to protect himself and he cannot fall to the floor.

2. A referee may count an unarmed combatant out if the unarmed combatant is on the floor or is being held up by the ropes.

3. The provisions of this section do not apply to a contest or exhibition of mixed martial arts.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 38, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97; R070-01, 8-31-2001)

NAC 467.765 Announcement of winner. (NRS 467.030) At the termination of each contest or exhibition that was judged, the announcer shall announce the winner and the referee shall raise the hand of the winner.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 39, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-2-97)

NAC 467.770 Change of decision after contest or exhibition; factors considered by Commission. (NRS 467.030) The Commission will not change a decision rendered at the end of any contest or exhibition unless:

1. The Commission determines that there was collusion affecting the result of the contest or exhibition;

2. The compilation of the scorecards of the judges discloses an error which shows that the decision was given to the wrong unarmed combatant; or

3. As the result of an error in interpreting a provision of this chapter, the referee has rendered an incorrect decision.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 40, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

NAC 467.778 Physician’s report to Commission after contest or exhibition; contents. (NRS 467.030) The physician designated by the Commission shall file a report after a contest or exhibition. The report must list each case in which an unarmed combatant:

1. Was injured during the contest or exhibition; or

2. Applied for medical aid after the contest or exhibition.

[Athletic Comm’n, § 50, eff. 4-25-78]—(NAC A 12-13-82; 12-2-97)

[Ambling Alp]

Oh, I know that. Most state commissions have their own rules and then the alphabet soups have their special rules for title fights etc.

However, we were talking about the history of the sport and at one time (and for a long time) the Marquis of Queensbury Rules were widely used.
(Even the rules today are loosely based on the Marquis of Queensbury Rules.)

There are really two main questions here:
1. Was there ever a time when clinching was regarded as a foul?
(I believe the answer is yes.)

2. Was there an era when fighters were commonly severely penalized for clinching?
(I believe the answer is no.)

[raylawpc]

Oh, I know that. Most state commissions have their own rules and then the alphabet soups have their special rules for title fights etc.

However, we were talking about the history of the sport and at one time (and for a long time) the Marquis of Queensbury Rules were widely used.
(Even the rules today are loosely based on the Marquis of Queensbury Rules.)

There are really two main questions here:
1. Was there ever a time when clinching was regarded as a foul?
(I believe the answer is yes.)

2. Was there an era when fighters were commonly severely penalized for clinching?
(I believe the answer is no.)

You need to read George Siler's Inside Pugilism and W. W. Naughton's Kings of the Queenberry Realm. Those books each devote a chapter to the ambiguities of the original MQ rules, and problems associated with the enforcement of those rules at the turn of the century.

As I'm sure you know, George Siler was a top referee in those days and boxing correspondent for the Chicago Tribune. Naughton was the boxing writer for the San Francisco Examiner at the turn of the century and, arguably, the best boxing writer from that era.

Their comments about the original MQ rules are interesting and insightful.

In answer to your questions, I believe the answers are "no," and "no."

[ringsider]

When Bonecrusher Smith clinched against Mike Tyson, "referee" Mills Lane took a round away from him as early as the SECOND ROUND, for holding.

During the SAME TIME PERIOD, "referee" Richard STEAL gave Sugar Ray Leonard over thirty warnings BY NAME for holding, and NEVER TOOK A POINT AWAY from Leonard.

Which fight was Leonard warned over 30 times? Surely not the Hagler debacle. Where Hagler spent twelve rounds plodding after a better fighter unable to cut the ring off. Leonard wasn't doing any holding in that fight.

The only fight SRL held on to save his ass was the first Duran fight.

[granberry]

When Bonecrusher Smith clinched against Mike Tyson, "referee" Mills Lane took a round away from him as early as the SECOND ROUND, for holding.

During the SAME TIME PERIOD, "referee" Richard STEAL gave Sugar Ray Leonard over thirty warnings BY NAME for holding, and NEVER TOOK A POINT AWAY from Leonard.

Which fight was Leonard warned over 30 times? Surely not the Hagler debacle. Where Hagler spent twelve rounds plodding after a better fighter unable to cut the ring off. Leonard wasn't doing any holding in that fight.

The only fight SRL held on to save his ass was the first Duran fight.

When I asked Harold Johnson if he saw the Hagler-Leonard fight,

the first he thing said, in a mocking high voice, was

"Don't hold, Ray. Don't hold Ray."

I said, "What do mean?"

Johnson said, "Didn't you hear the referee? 'Don't hold Ray. Let him go Ray. Don't hold him Ray."

Playing dumb, I said. "So?"

At that point Johnson blew up.

"Any referee will take a point away after the thrid warning. This ref was paying lip service to the rules. He gave Leonard three or four warnings every round and never took a point away."

When I walked into Adrian Davis' gym just after that fight he saw me and walked up to me and said in a high voice, "Don't hold Ray. Let him go Ray. Did you see that #@$%&*# ? That referee was a joke."

But what do professional fighters like Johnson and Adrian Davis know?

[Robinson]

I think leonard won that fight. BUT....I do agree with what you say I think that Ray should have been deducted a point on that one.

I have that fight on audio and when listening to the commentary all you could hear was "stop holding ray"....

Steele's raspy command is one of those things I shall always associate with that fight.

Nearly every round.

In any case...Ray got away with it and Hagler's title.

Kym

[granberry]

Harold Johnson said to me of the Hagler-Leonard fight,

"I don't give Leonard any credit for running away."

Of the same fight Gene Fullmer said to me in a puzzled voice,

"How can you take a title by running away?"

[Robinson]

True. I think it was the spurts that he landed. I had it close. Though I scored it awhile ago...and have not watched it in ages.

When I first saw it, I thought Leonard won.

Then a few years later I thought Hagler won with the power shots.

Then I re watched it and gave it to Leonard on a margin.

Either way, Leonard looked fast and stole it. He did though like you said
do alot of running.

[granberry]

Just like Ali,

all Leonard had to do was last to the end without getting knocked out

and then collect his automatic "win."

There are no two fighters in the history of boxing who had more fake "wins" than Ali and Leonard.

[raylawpc]

True. I think it was the spurts that he landed. I had it close. Though I scored it awhile ago...and have not watched it in ages.

When I first saw it, I thought Leonard won.

Then a few years later I thought Hagler won with the power shots.

Then I re watched it and gave it to Leonard on a margin.

Either way, Leonard looked fast and stole it. He did though like you said
do alot of running.

I had Hagler ahead 7-5 by rounds if I recall correctly. It was a close fight, and I have no problem with folks who think Leonard won.

[Robinson]

Gran

What other fake wins do you think Leonard got...

I think he was very lucky to get the draw against Hearns in the rematch.

[ringsider]

Hagler was behind 4-0 after the first 4 rounds. He did not win more than 5 of the last 8 rounds. And just because you are the over rated champion coming foreward stumbling over your own feet amd missing, and getting countered to death, doesn't mean you win the round. Hagler blew it big time. But he was over matched.........

[Robinson]

I dont think he was overmatched...he was a damned good champion. Neither man was at there best however.

I had it 116-113 for leonard.

[Ambling Alp]

Oh, I know that. Most state commissions have their own rules and then the alphabet soups have their special rules for title fights etc.

However, we were talking about the history of the sport and at one time (and for a long time) the Marquis of Queensbury Rules were widely used.
(Even the rules today are loosely based on the Marquis of Queensbury Rules.)

There are really two main questions here:
1. Was there ever a time when clinching was regarded as a foul?
(I believe the answer is yes.)

2. Was there an era when fighters were commonly severely penalized for clinching?
(I believe the answer is no.)

You need to read George Siler's Inside Pugilism and W. W. Naughton's Kings of the Queenberry Realm. Those books each devote a chapter to the ambiguities of the original MQ rules, and problems associated with the enforcement of those rules at the turn of the century.

As I'm sure you know, George Siler was a top referee in those days and boxing correspondent for the Chicago Tribune. Naughton was the boxing writer for the San Francisco Examiner at the turn of the century and, arguably, the best boxing writer from that era.

Their comments about the original MQ rules are interesting and insightful.

In answer to your questions, I believe the answers are "no," and "no."

Those sound like interesting books. I will keep an eye out for them.
Thanks raylaw.

[raylawpc]

The actual title of Siler's book is Inside Facts on Pugilism. Sorry.

I looked at both books last night regarding clinching. To paraphrase, Naughton says that some folks maintain clinching is illegal, notably Billy Madden, the manager of John L. Sullivan. Naughton writes that, as a technical matter, he thinks Madden is correct. But practically, the rule is impossible because, when a fighter is tired or dazed by a punch, he will instinctively reach out to grab his opponent. Naughton also says that the public would never stand it if fights routinely ended by disqualification simply because one fighter happened to clinch his opponent.

Siler is briefer. He writes regarding rule # 2: "There is more or less wrestling and considerable hugging in every contest, but I have known of but few cases wherein fighters were disqualified for infringing that rule." Siler certainly permitted clinching.

The bigger issue in those days was holding and hitting and hittng on the break.

[granberry]

Leonard vs Hagler could only be sold to those who never saw a fight before.

The huge ten ounce gloves in a middleweight "title" fight.

The 12-round distance in a "title" fight.

Leonard warned over thirty times by name by the so-called 'referee' for the same infraction without a single point taken away.

Leonard punched after the bell in five of the twelve rounds.

While the 'referee' stood around and smiled.

Leonard threw 6 or 7 punches after the bell ended the 11th round.

While the 'referee' stood around and smiled.

A pathetic, pitty-pat "fight" on the level of an exhibition match.

Garbage---- only for those who have never seen a fight before and think they are watching "boxing."