Germany's best HW

[Robinson]

Who would you gents consider to be Germany's best ?

They have an illustrious history in the division...often mared in controversy...but also full of solid challengers.

Deutche uber alles
Schmelling is the obvious choice...but is he the top man..

[Robinson]

Plus he seemed so perfect for that fight. Smart, calculated...aggressive but not reckless.

I would love to see more of his earlier fights.

I think I have an article some where in one of my dads sailing mags of all places..about Schmelling...if memory serves he helped get the crew of Australia II in shape for the America's cup.

It went over some of the training he put himself through...I tried mimicking it when I was a teen.

Ill dig it up.

Kym

[Flump]

Has to be Schmeling, no other German heavyweight competed in world class for as long, or won the title.

Walter Neusal, Karl Mildenberger, Jurgen Blin, Axel Schultz etc were a few rungs below.

[dr_devious]

Max Schmelling by a mile

[dempseyfire]

Of course the top dog is Max.

A few other names that would certainly make the top 10 are the 6'5 Hein Ten Hoff, who beat Neusel twice and gave Jersey Joe Walcott a competetive scrap.

There is also Heinz Neuhaus, who knocked out Hoff in one round and also beat Brian London, Rex Layne, an old Joey Maxim, and drew with Henry Cooper.

Both were knocked out by Ingo Johansson.

[Cap]

Considering that Schmeling usually fought at cruiserweight, you don't think there's been any cruiser or heavyweight in the last 15 years who could beat him in a boxing ring today?

Cap

[The Great John L]

Considering that Schmeling usually fought at cruiserweight, you don't think there's been any cruiser or heavyweight in the last 15 years who could beat him in a boxing ring today?

No

[dempseyfire]

Considering that Schmeling usually fought at cruiserweight, you don't think there's been any cruiser or heavyweight in the last 15 years who could beat him in a boxing ring today?

Cap

I think Schmeling loses to a peak Tyson, edges Holyfield in a close decision, and a fight with Lennox would be 50/50 in my book.

Max had incredible timing and precision in his punches, I've never seen a fight where he didn't land some flush shots on his opponent. He had trouble with Max Baer's reach, but Baer also had to walk through some flush right hands in the early going. Lewis would be much more cautious than Baer, and also lacked Baer's chin. On the flipside, if Lewis landed a dynamite right cross early, he could take Max out.

[The Great John L]

Considering that Schmeling usually fought at cruiserweight, you don't think there's been any cruiser or heavyweight in the last 15 years who could beat him in a boxing ring today?

Cap

I think Schmeling loses to a peak Tyson, edges Holyfield in a close decision, and a fight with Lennox would be 50/50 in my book.

Max had incredible timing and precision in his punches, I've never seen a fight where he didn't land some flush shots on his opponent. He had trouble with Max Baer's reach, but Baer also had to walk through some flush right hands in the early going. Lewis would be much more cautious than Baer, and also lacked Baer's chin. On the flipside, if Lewis landed a dynamite right cross early, he could take Max out.

df, good points. I thought Cap was referring to German fighters of the past 15 years.

I would give a number of HWs of the past 15 years a good shot at beating Schmeling. I would favor Lewis and probably Bowe to beat him 2 out of 3 times and could see both Klitschko’s winning 1 of 3, while Holyfield could split a 4 fight series. Since Tyson was in prison 15 years ago you would have to go with the post prison Iron Mike and that version would have had some real problems against a peak Schmeling, although I could also see him maybe splitting a short series.

[Cap]

Considering that Schmeling usually fought at cruiserweight, you don't think there's been any cruiser or heavyweight in the last 15 years who could beat him in a boxing ring today?

Cap

I think Schmeling loses to a peak Tyson, edges Holyfield in a close decision, and a fight with Lennox would be 50/50 in my book.

Max had incredible timing and precision in his punches, I've never seen a fight where he didn't land some flush shots on his opponent. He had trouble with Max Baer's reach, but Baer also had to walk through some flush right hands in the early going. Lewis would be much more cautious than Baer, and also lacked Baer's chin. On the flipside, if Lewis landed a dynamite right cross early, he could take Max out.

df, good points. I thought Cap was referring to German fighters of the past 15 years.

Yes.

This is the same Schmeling who looked bad against a mediocre Sharkey twice, took eight rounds to dispose of a chubby Mickey Walker, got outworked by Steve Hamas, nearly let light heavy Young Stribling go the 15-rd distance, was destroyed by a clumsy one-armed Max Baer. On a good night I could see Axel Schulz extending him, maybe even winning. Go back a bit farther in time, I see Mildenberger or Neuhaus copping a decision.

I like the old timers, but Schmeling's revisionist legacy is based almost solely on one win over a young, over-confident Joe Louis. It wasn't that long ago that Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera, Baer and Braddock were considered amongst the worst heavyweight champions in history.

[dempseyfire]

I think Schmeling loses to a peak Tyson, edges Holyfield in a close decision, and a fight with Lennox would be 50/50 in my book.

Max had incredible timing and precision in his punches, I've never seen a fight where he didn't land some flush shots on his opponent. He had trouble with Max Baer's reach, but Baer also had to walk through some flush right hands in the early going. Lewis would be much more cautious than Baer, and also lacked Baer's chin. On the flipside, if Lewis landed a dynamite right cross early, he could take Max out.

df, good points. I thought Cap was referring to German fighters of the past 15 years.

Yes.

This is the same Schmeling who looked bad against a mediocre Sharkey twice, took eight rounds to dispose of a chubby Mickey Walker, got outworked by Steve Hamas, nearly let light heavy Young Stribling go the 15-rd distance, was destroyed by a clumsy one-armed Max Baer. On a good night I could see Axel Schulz extending him, maybe even winning. Go back a bit farther in time, I see Mildenberger or Neuhaus copping a decision.

I like the old timers, but Schmeling's revisionist legacy is based almost solely on one win over a young, over-confident Joe Louis. It wasn't that long ago that Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera, Baer and Braddock were considered amongst the worst heavyweight champions in history.

Schmeling, Sharkey, and Baer were never considered among the 'worst' chmapions in history, what they were derided for was being inconsistant. On their good nights they were dangerous fighters to any Heavyweight. To call Walker 'chubby' or Sharkey mediocre (and Schmeling was regarded by the wide majority of those present to have won vs Sharkey in the rematch) is just plain wrong. Axel Schultz??? He was crap, he wouldn't have even sniffed the top 10 in the 1930s. His claim to fame is getting jobbed vs a completly disinterested old Foreman. His fight with Botha was one of the worst HW title fights ever . . until the recent span of crap involving Briggs-Laykovich, Wlad-Ibragimov etc.

[Robinson]

I think Schmelling does well these days....HOWEVER he struggles with alot of champions and is beaten by many of them.

[HomicideHenry]

Schmeling is vastly under-rated by historians and critics, even fans today, based on the whole 'Louis-vs-The Nazi' propaganda, and its sad that such people label him as a cheese champion, because so-called experts such as Bert Sugar puts him in that category.

Truth is, Max Schmeling might very well have been THE greatest European heavyweight of all time, not just Germany's greatest heavyweight. He would have been champion, or at least a top five contender in any era, including ours which consists of 'super-heavyweights'.

[Cap]

I could maybe see him contending in today's cruiserweight division, but if you plunked Schmeling down amongst today's big guys he'd be hard-put to make the top ten. These huge blubberweights would push him around, hang all over him and wear him down. The biggest guy Schmeling fought was, I believe, Max Baer, who was only 6' 2 1/2" and about 220 (an early version of Andrew Golota). As for talent, even at his best, contemporary followers of the sport didn't think he was all that much at the time. He won the title on a questionable foul and then lost it on an equally questionable decision in what would have easily made the short list for the most boring fight of 1932. However, of all the mediocre champions between Tunney and Louis, he probably was the most skilled tradesman of the lot.

[dempseyfire]

I could maybe see him contending in today's cruiserweight division, but if you plunked Schmeling down amongst today's big guys he'd be hard-put to make the top ten. These huge blubberweights would push him around, hang all over him and wear him down. The biggest guy Schmeling fought was, I believe, Max Baer, who was only 6' 2 1/2" and about 220 (an early version of Andrew Golota). As for talent, even at his best, contemporary followers of the sport didn't think he was all that much at the time. He won the title on a questionable foul and then lost it on an equally questionable decision in what would have easily made the short list for the most boring fight of 1932. However, of all the mediocre champions between Tunney and Louis, he probably was the most skilled tradesman of the lot.

Right . . . .I guess Max would have to go on eating binges like James Toney to have any success with the crap Heavyweights of 2008 . . .

[Robinson]

food is good though