ali over rated

[Raff The Frenchman]

Ali in my opinion was vastly over rated and would have trouble winning a WBO title today. Reasons being
too small
no defence
fought too many stiffs
rudimentry skills where lacking

Bernard Briggs?...let me see...Hasn't Shannon Briggs recently declared he was the greatest HW of all time?...
are you a relative?

[granberry]

Steve Lott is a flaming Ali shill.

I talked to him on the phone when he was newly working for Bill Cayton and Cayton wasn't around.

Lott rattled off every Religion of Ali talking point with the rapidity of a machine gun.

I NEVER talked to a more more flaming, unashamed Ali shill.

[raylawpc]

Shall do.

You know the term Troll for forums...where it come from ?

Harold Johnson and Jimmy Young are african americans however...

According to Wikipedia: "An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

More from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

[granberry]

One of the Ali salesman talking points Steve Lott offered me was that Ali was "just a kid" when he fought Doug Jones.

He poured out the Religion of Ali talking points thick and fast.

Apparently Cayton was getting decripit and hired Lott to answer his phone.

It was a surprise for me to run into a glib modern media type there after years of talking to Jimmy Jacobs and Cayton.

I wonder if Lott had any part in Cayton's disastrous decision to sell/give his and Jimmy Jacobs' fight film collection to ESPN.

Jacobs spent decades finding and recopying/transferring those films to better, more modern and less fragile and less vulnerable film.
Now they sit unused at ESPN.

Jacobs would be ill, as would Cayton, if they could see what a mistake it was to let EPSN have those films.

[Robinson]

That is sad if ESPN does not show those fights. I know they have ESPN classic, but surely they could show more variety than the bouts that they do show.

Anyone know how much ESPN paid for the collection?

[raylawpc]

According to Jacobs' obit in the NYTimes, he owned more than 17,000 films at the time of his death with his partner, Bill Cayton.

Keep in mind that many of these are silent films of lousy quality. Like any network, ESPN is in it for the ratings. Except for diehard boxing fans, how many general viewers would watch - oh, let's say Abe Attell v. Johnny Kilbane in silent format? (I don't know if they even filmed Attell-Kilbane - just using it as an example of two boxing names now largely forgotten by the typical sports fan.)

But I do wish they would show a greater variety. I'm a little tired of watching Rocky KO Archie over and over on ESPN. I did enjoy watching Robinson-Rocky Castellani and Davey-Graziano recently. So maybe there is hope . . .

BTW, Cayton sold the collection to Walt Disney Company (which owns ESPN) in 1998. The terms of the sale were not disclosed.

[bjermaine]

According to Jacobs' obit in the NYTimes, he owned more than 17,000 films at the time of his death with his partner, Bill Cayton.

Keep in mind that many of these are silent films of lousy quality. Like any network, ESPN is in it for the ratings. Except for diehard boxing fans, how many general viewers would watch - oh, let's say Abe Attell v. Johnny Kilbane in silent format? (I don't know if they even filmed Attell-Kilbane - just using it as an example of two boxing names now largely forgotten by the typical sports fan.)

But I do wish they would show a greater variety. I'm a little tired of watching Rocky KO Archie over and over on ESPN. I did enjoy watching Robinson-Rocky Castellani and Davey-Graziano recently. So maybe there is hope . . .

BTW, Cayton sold the collection to Walt Disney Company (which owns ESPN) in 1998. The terms of the sale were not disclosed.

i'm with you on this one. when espn purchased the library i was hoping to see a lot more variety with what was shown. i mean i love tyson-douglas but i've seen the fight a 100 times in the past year.

[Knucklez]

re the Cooper/Clay delay.

I've read Steve Lott's report before and others like it which say there was no more than a couple of seconds' delay.

On the flip side of that, I've seen interviews with Henry Cooper where he says that the fight had to be stopped so that someone could fetch another glove from the locker room, which at Wembley is '150 yards away', according to Cooper himself.

It seems odd that he would concoct a story that was so different from what seems to be the actual facts.

[raylawpc]

re the Cooper/Clay delay.

I've read Steve Lott's report before and others like it which say there was no more than a couple of seconds' delay.

On the flip side of that, I've seen interviews with Henry Cooper where he says that the fight had to be stopped so that someone could fetch another glove from the locker room, which at Wembley is '150 yards away', according to Cooper himself.

It seems odd that he would concoct a story that was so different from what seems to be the actual facts.

Well then, Cooper's story must be the truth. After all, no fighter in history has ever lied or embellished the facts to explain why he lost . . .

Britisher Bob Mee explains the whole incident as follows: "In the interval [between the fourth and fifth rounds], which was extended slightly by the discovery of a tear in Clay's glove, Clay's corner applied smelling salts to help bring him around. By the time the delayed round five started, with a board official having run off to the dressing room to find a replacement pair of gloves and a plan to fit them after the round had ended, Clay had recovered." Bob Mee, The Heavyweights (2006), p. 70 (emphasis mine). Of course, since Clay stopped Cooper in the fifth, the new gloves weren't needed.

I am not saying the extra 8 seconds reported by Steve Lott didn't help Clay. (I can think of times when I could have used an extra 8 seconds with a fighter between rounds.) But the idea of a substantial delay is just an urban legend.

[BoxBuzz]

In these cases for my money, facts are the only things that matter.
Passionate opinions that run counter to the empirical evidence are just window dressing for the lost boys.

If someone can produce proof that the Ali Cooper fight was stopped in order to have a new glove manufactured and delivered to the ring...then I'm with you. Otherwise claims of this sort are no different than the people who claim that area 51 harbors alien life forms.

[raylawpc]

According to Jacobs' obit in the NYTimes, he owned more than 17,000 films at the time of his death with his partner, Bill Cayton.

Keep in mind that many of these are silent films of lousy quality. Like any network, ESPN is in it for the ratings. Except for diehard boxing fans, how many general viewers would watch - oh, let's say Abe Attell v. Johnny Kilbane in silent format? (I don't know if they even filmed Attell-Kilbane - just using it as an example of two boxing names now largely forgotten by the typical sports fan.)

But I do wish they would show a greater variety. I'm a little tired of watching Rocky KO Archie over and over on ESPN. I did enjoy watching Robinson-Rocky Castellani and Davey-Graziano recently. So maybe there is hope . . .

BTW, Cayton sold the collection to Walt Disney Company (which owns ESPN) in 1998. The terms of the sale were not disclosed.

i'm with you on this one. when espn purchased the library i was hoping to see a lot more variety with what was shown. i mean i love tyson-douglas but i've seen the fight a 100 times in the past year.

There's hope!! Last night was Castellani-Fullmer. A great fight!!

[BoxBuzz]

Maybe their getting the message?

[BERNARD BRIGGS.]

I see James Toney has won a fight at 40 something the over rated Ali couldnt do even when he fought duds like Trevor Berbeck

[HomicideHenry]

Wasnt aware that Fres Oquendo was comparable to Trevor Berbick

[Raff The Frenchman]

I see James Toney has won a fight at 40 something the over rated Ali couldnt do even when he fought duds like Trevor Berbeck

dude just STFU would ya?

[observer1]

I see James Toney has won a fight at 40 something the over rated Ali couldnt do even when he fought duds like Trevor Berbeck

lol. Give it a rest Trolly.

Toney beat a journeyman.

Trevor Berbick was a HW Champ.

BTW. does anyone know if this guy is or anyway linked to the infamous granberry ?

[banjo]

what is a "shill?"

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Toney beat a journeyman.

--- Really interesting how you people think fake fights are for real. Probably do WWE role play thing too.

If the boxorgs ruled his day, he'd be given the decision over Berbick and lined up for a title shot against WBA champ Weaver who'd be DQed in the first round, making Ali the 4x champ.

Instead of Floyd Cummings, Smokin Joe brought in for another go at Ali's belt, with controversial result causing the WBA to order an immediate rematch.

It's a new era. Internet trolls and whacko conspiracy theorists have been given credibility by the powers that be in charge of increasing world disorder. Bloggers become news journalists, and big business becoming a ward of the state while guys in dresses blow up everything they can.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Never, ever count this thread out. LOL.

Banj --- the term, "shill" is a synonym for a lick-spittle.

[Cojimar 1945]

The win over Williams is not one of Ali's best wins. In fact, Williams may not have even been ranked in the top 10 when he fought Ali. However, Ali fans overrating some of his less meaningful wins does not detract from Ali's many wins over guys who were top contenders. In terms of accomplishments, Ali rates very highly. Although people seem to overrate the 70s, guys like Foreman, Norton, Patterson and Lyle were top contenders when Ali beat them.

[Saurfang]

Ali over rated?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali over rated?

It's true. Many greats are.

[Saurfang]

D

[BERNARD BRIGGS.]

as Ali was over rated finger poker John Hopawarte is most under rated, he may not have the speed that Ali had but his punches are devestaing and would have been a good tryout for Ali

[Collins2000]

as Ali was over rated finger poker John Hopawarte is most under rated, he may not have the speed that Ali had but his punches are devestaing and would have been a good tryout for Ali

Great post, Bernie.

I think if they fought 3 times, Hoppa would definately win at least 2 of the fights against Ali.

Of course, I am talking about present day Hop-Frog and present day Ali.