GLASS JAWS!

erlene · Post by **erlene** » 06 Mar 2004, 14:47

We've descussed who's got the best punch, but i'd really like to know, WHO'S GOT THE WORST CHIN...!!!

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 06 Mar 2004, 14:48

erlene wrote:We've descussed who's got the best punch, but i'd really like to know, WHO'S GOT THE WORST CHIN...!!!

Carl Thompson's chin ain't good.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 06 Mar 2004, 15:02

ok i know i may get a slgging for this but for a heavyweight and a big heavyweight at that i always considered lewis to have a very bad chin. the only two big big punches he got tagged with, mccall and rahman, it was bye bye lennox.

one of the reasons ill never consider him being "a great"

richter-scale · Post by **richter-scale** » 06 Mar 2004, 15:28

Tommy Hears had a bit of a suspect chin. mind you if you didn't knock him, he would certainly knock you!

bigynzing · Post by **bigynzing** » 06 Mar 2004, 15:35

Good old Herbie Hide..his chin is of the finest south east pottery.

richter-scale · Post by **richter-scale** » 06 Mar 2004, 15:41

bigynzing wrote:Good old Herbie Hide..his chin is of the finest south east pottery.

Ha ha yeah herbs chin certainly wasn't great, as bowe happily found out. Don't think enzo's chin is granite come to think of it!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 06 Mar 2004, 16:00

neil r wrote:ok i know i may get a slgging for this but for a heavyweight and a big heavyweight at that i always considered lewis to have a very bad chin. the only two big big punches he got tagged with, mccall and rahman, it was bye bye lennox.

one of the reasons ill never consider him being "a great"

Those two right hands that upended Lewis were massive shots, would've put any heavyweight in trouble I reckon.
The Lewis chin was good enough to see him dominate the division for a good few years, and you aint gonna do that with a glass jaw!

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 06 Mar 2004, 16:57

MightyWarrior wrote:
neil r wrote:ok i know i may get a slgging for this but for a heavyweight and a big heavyweight at that i always considered lewis to have a very bad chin. the only two big big punches he got tagged with, mccall and rahman, it was bye bye lennox.

one of the reasons ill never consider him being "a great"
Those two right hands that upended Lewis were massive shots, would've put any heavyweight in trouble I reckon.
The Lewis chin was good enough to see him dominate the division for a good few years, and you aint gonna do that with a glass jaw!

sure. but what i meant was this.. your right they were massive shots but then other heavyweights have been hit with huge shots and not crumbled. Holyfield is an example of this on several accasions and tyson was in trouble more than once, in articular against bruno, who despite his shortcomings as a genuine world class heavyweight could pack a huge punch, but they werent sparked to the same degree lewis was. off the top of my head i can think of lewis only taking huge punches twice and both times he was out.

as for him dominating the division then your right. however that was perhaps more due to his boxing skills which he undoubtedly had, and his size and ability to take opponents out when the time was right for him as opposed to his ability to survive sustained punching.

Shirow · Post by **Shirow** » 06 Mar 2004, 17:19

I won't disagree that Lewis' chin isn't the best but how come that can be used as a reason for not being a great? Surely it's even more reason.

It would be like saying that if Tua had become undisputed champ that you couldn't consider him a great because he was too short.
Surely having a worse chin than most of the other top level boxers andstill dominating makes him greater.

Anyway - stepping off my soapbox - i'd have to go with The Cat too. I can't believe there has ever been a fighter who has risen as high while at the same time being so vunerable.

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 06 Mar 2004, 17:39

Shirow wrote:I won't disagree that Lewis' chin isn't the best but how come that can be used as a reason for not being a great? Surely it's even more reason.

It would be like saying that if Tua had become undisputed champ that you couldn't consider him a great because he was too short.
Surely having a worse chin than most of the other top level boxers andstill dominating makes him greater.

Anyway - stepping off my soapbox - i'd have to go with The Cat too. I can't believe there has ever been a fighter who has risen as high while at the same time being so vunerable.

Shirow.. the reason i think that having a suspect chin stops him for being rated as a great is simply this. one of the criterea of judging a boxers standing is his ability to ship a punch. in my opinion lewis filed on that count.

the size of a fighter in judging his ability is negligible. although the acepted wisdom may be that the bigger the fighter the greater his ability to withstand a puch. for example would a straweight knock out a heavy weight? on the other side of the coin i would suspect that many strawwights would certainly feel the effect of a lewis punch. it tends to equate the bigger the guy the better his ability at survivng big hits.

there are exceptions to the rule. tyson is a prime example of that. you could make an argument that one of the reasons that many would rate a young tyson as a great was because of his lack of stature. he was hit throughout his career by guys much bigger and heavier than him pre-douglas and coped. and lets not forget that the guys who floored lewis were smaller than him (though i may be wrong about macoll, if so i stand corrected!!) there are many other reasons why i wouldnt have lewis rated as a great, his chin is simply one of them.

however this is a thread about glass chins so we may have to agree to disagree on the merits of lewis mate!

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 06 Mar 2004, 17:41

David Haye and Enzo 8)

Lickszz · Post by **Lickszz** » 06 Mar 2004, 17:54

Terry Norris had one of the worst chins I have ever seen.

$eif · Post by **$eif** » 06 Mar 2004, 18:20

Floyd Patterson! :(

neil r · Post by **neil r** » 06 Mar 2004, 18:38

$eif wrote:Floyd Patterson! :(

good call.. was knocked down more than any other haevy weight champ . 18 times i think

$eif · Post by **$eif** » 06 Mar 2004, 18:45

neil r wrote:
$eif wrote:Floyd Patterson! :(
good call.. was knocked down more than any other haevy weight champ . 18 times i think

But what if he had a good chin!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:08

British fighters with suspect whiskers.

Herbie Hide, Danny Williams (hurt by Sprott?!?!), Carl Thompson, Enzo Macrinelli, David Haye (although its a bit early to labell him chinny yet), Lawrence Murphy, Wayne Elcock, Wayne Alexander, Neil Sinclair, Ted Bami (again, it was a great shot though).

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:13

Enzo Mac and Haye Im suprised u put those 2 in. I think only thing with Haye is how low he carries his hands sometimes, I think if he kept his hands up in the fight where he was knocked down he wouldnt have been, has Enzo Mac even been knocked down. Until a fighter has been knocked down I dont think you can question his chin. Being shaken and being knocked down are 2 different things for me.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:17

jameswilson wrote:Enzo Mac and Haye Im suprised u put those 2 in. I think only thing with Haye is how low he carries his hands sometimes, I think if he kept his hands up in the fight where he was knocked down he wouldnt have been, has Enzo Mac even been knocked down. Until a fighter has been knocked down I dont think you can question his chin. Being shaken and being knocked down are 2 different things for me.

Ask Lee Swaby has Enzo been KD - he was KO'd big style by him, one clean shot.

Also, Bruce Scott had him down and almost out 3 fights ago.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:25

Bugger your right. For some reason I thought Enzo was unbeaten, I knew Swaby had eaten him by KO but for some reason caried on typing lol. OK so Enzo may be a little chinny, not bad news just means Haye will have a chance against him ha ha.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:36

BTW, Lewis' chin was Okay - I think it was his flaw but it wasn't a major flaw - he stood up to Klitchko's shots, and Ray Mercer's too big punchers.

Okay, he has been KO'd twice, but those shots were beauties from big punchers, remember Iron Chin Razor Rudduck he went down from a punch perfect shot from Lewis - do we ever question his chin?

Those KO's will always place him just down from the top spots of the all time heavy list and I'm not saying he's got an Ali chin - but he wasn't China chinned like a Hide, because Vitali Klitchko would be world champion by now.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:48

Yeah I thought Lewis had a very good chin. After seeing the shots Bruno caught him with there was little doubt in my mind about his chin. Ali had the greatest heavyweight chin tho. If people doubt that just look at the shot Joe Frazier caught him with to knock him down in their 1st fight he was up in 3 tremendous.

The_Power · Post by **The_Power** » 06 Mar 2004, 19:58

jameswilson wrote: Ali had the greatest heavyweight chin tho. .

Yeah probably the only thing he held over every heavyweight in history.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 06 Mar 2004, 20:02

The_Power wrote:
jameswilson wrote: Ali had the greatest heavyweight chin tho. .
Yeah probably the only thing he held over every heavyweight in history.

Thats actually a good point, although I think stamina must be up there with the very best, maybe Tunney, maybe Marciano or even Holmes - I give the edge to Ali though.

Best complete package of the lot of them though.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 06 Mar 2004, 20:05

He had the best boxing brain anyway. He saw how Foreman dismantled Frazier with sheer power and basically used his chin and body punch resistance to wear him down.

glittermonkey · Post by **glittermonkey** » 06 Mar 2004, 20:13

Bobby Vanzie always looks vulnerable to me.
Also Michael Gomez seems to be hurt easily. Makes for great fights though.

GLASS JAWS!

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