amateur rules other than the obvious

[boxmel]

Yeah, but I was honest about it.

Now - (pondering) - does this make you Honest Abe or "I Cannot Tell A Lie" George?

[zhdamistro]

How about donte wilder. Didnt he have around 20 fights when he qualified for the olympics?

[boxmel]

How about donte wilder. Didnt he have around 20 fights when he qualified for the olympics?

Somewhere around there.

[Canada]

Thats some amazing natrul talent

[boxmel]

Thats some amazing natrul talent

Actually, he struggled quite a bit at the Olympic Trials. Mike Hunter had his 35th bout during the Olympic Trials in Houston. Wilder has learned a lot since Houston and is maturing well. I don't think Wilder is in the "natural talent" class, but he's extremely hardworking.

[Dennis]

Wilder has some natural talent in that he has some god-given advantages. He is 6'7" tall with very long arms. He also has "heavy hands" and now that he is learning the necessary boxing skills he is able to use those advantages. Deontay now knows how to use his reach much better, is more relaxed in the ring, is in better condition and doesn't tire as easily as he used to do.

Deontay Wilder is an exception to the rule about needing well over 5 years to reach the Olympic level. Most exceptions to the rule have been in the heavier weight divisions. Deontay might win a medal and then he, like George Foreman, would be exceptions to the rule about winning a medal in the Olympics.

I believe if you would compile a chart of the Olympic boxing medalists over the last 10 Olympics, that the vast majority (well over 80%), had been involved in amateur boxing for over 5 years. I would think the typical experience level is probably about 10-12 years.

[jtyson]

Wilder has some natural talent in that he has some god-given advantages. He is 6'7" tall with very long arms. He also has "heavy hands" and now that he is learning the necessary boxing skills he is able to use those advantages. Deontay now knows how to use his reach much better, is more relaxed in the ring, is in better condition and doesn't tire as easily as he used to do.

Deontay Wilder is an exception to the rule about needing well over 5 years to reach the Olympic level. Most exceptions to the rule have been in the heavier weight divisions. Deontay might win a medal and then he, like George Foreman, would be exceptions to the rule about winning a medal in the Olympics.

I believe if you would compile a chart of the Olympic boxing medalists over the last 10 Olympics, that the vast majority (well over 80%), had been involved in amateur boxing for over 5 years. I would think the typical experience level is probably about 10-12 years.

I agree, I believe he can medal.

When he turns pro, post-Olympics, He will be a force if he stays at the 200 limit and fights at Cruiserweight

[locoxelbox]

Deontay Wilder is an exception to the rule about needing well over 5 years to reach the Olympic level. Most exceptions to the rule have been in the heavier weight divisions. Deontay might win a medal and then he, like George Foreman, would be exceptions to the rule about winning a medal in the Olympics.

I believe if you would compile a chart of the Olympic boxing medalists over the last 10 Olympics, that the vast majority (well over 80%), had been involved in amateur boxing for over 5 years. I would think the typical experience level is probably about 10-12 years.

The world record probably goes to Mexican heavyweight Joaquin Rocha who fought at the 1968 Olympics with only eleven bouts coming in. And the funny thing is he won a bronze medal! Rocha started boxing only one and a half year before the Olympics, won two close bouts before being stopped by Ionis Chepulis (USSR).
Of course there were other times with no qualifying and many boxers hardly had any international experience.

[hello2007]

what! hes 6'7 and a cruiserweight? hows that possible. Im 6'0 152 in amateurs and I think thats big

[Dennis]

It is very possible. With low bodyfat % and a slender frame, 200# is relatively easy for a 6'7" guy. We had a 6'7" boxer in our gym who boxed in the 165# class. He was more slender than Deontay and had an even greater height and reach advantage. An 84-86" reach in the 165# class!

Look at all the basketball players who are 6'7" - 6'10" that weigh between 190-210 pounds. These guys aren't trying to keep their weight down. In fact most are trying to gain muscle and add weight. There are even 7'0" guys that walk around at 200-210 pounds and could make 201# at a weigh-in by watching their food and liquid intake right before the weigh-in.

[Gray-Fox]

I don't think Wilder is in the "natural talent" class, but he's extremely hardworking.

I think this comment shows a lack of fundamental knowledge about what it takes to be a top boxer, amateur or professional. I can only assume it comes from never having boxed...although you may have, in which case it is even worse!

[boxmel]

I think this comment shows a lack of fundamental knowledge about what it takes to be a top boxer, amateur or professional. I can only assume it comes from never having boxed...although you may have, in which case it is even worse!

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I just don't happen to put Wilder in the "natural talent" category - whatever that means. How that comment shows a lack of fundamental knowledge, blah, blah, is beyond me. To me, hard work, dedication and focus make a top amateur. Very few, if any, wake up one day and are automatically "top." And, frankly, what does having boxed, or not having boxed, have to do with the subject6?

[Gray-Fox]

I think this comment shows a lack of fundamental knowledge about what it takes to be a top boxer, amateur or professional. I can only assume it comes from never having boxed...although you may have, in which case it is even worse!

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. I just don't happen to put Wilder in the "natural talent" category - whatever that means. How that comment shows a lack of fundamental knowledge, blah, blah, is beyond me. To me, hard work, dedication and focus make a top amateur. Very few, if any, wake up one day and are automatically "top." And, frankly, what does having boxed, or not having boxed, have to do with the subject6?

There's a "talent" behind every success. I think you just have a narrow view of what talent is. Not all talented boxers have to look as aesthetically pleasing as Floyd Mayweather. And aside from how he looks when he's boxing, I just don't see how you can judge that he is not in the "natural talent" category...unless he's losing to guys that he should be beating or just scraping past guys that he should be beating handily.

[hello2007]

call me crazy but I think there is such thing as being too tall for a weightclass where being so tall can work against you. I'm not saying its a bad thing for the wilder guy, I don't even know who he is. But I assume being so tall in a weight division can work against alot of people

[boxmel]

There's a "talent" behind every success.

Is that what I was referring to in my initial post? I don't think so.

I think you just have a narrow view of what talent is.

I think most people probably have differing views of what talent means to them - I wouldn't call them narrow

Not all talented boxers have to look as aesthetically pleasing

And where did I say that was my criteria for "natural talent?"

And aside from how he looks when he's boxing,

That's generally one way to make a determination - by looking at a boxer boxing.

I just don't see how you can judge that he is not in the "natural talent" category...

Okay, I'll bite. What IS natural talent to you?

unless he's losing to guys that he should be beating or just scraping past guys that he should be beating handily.

And the above definitely, in MY opinion, has nothing to do with determining whether or not a boxer has natural talent.

Just curious, what has been your experience seeing Wilder box? Where and when?

[Canada]

call me crazy but I think there is such thing as being too tall for a weightclass where being so tall can work against you. I'm not saying its a bad thing for the wilder guy, I don't even know who he is. But I assume being so tall in a weight division can work against alot of people

I know what you mean. It seems to me that when guys are extremly tall for thier weight that they often seem uncoordinated or sloppy, and cant really
"explode" with their shots if you know what I mean (think Berto,Cotto) . Manny Steward has said he believes all guys over 6'4 have trouble with their coordination. And often when guys are too tall the have no inside game because they need more room to get their shots off.

I think it would be better to be extremly tall for your weight than extremly short though. Height is an advantage in boxing.

[Dennis]

I would say that Wilder must have some natural talent to come from nowhere to the Olympics in just 2 years of boxing. He actually seams fairly coordinated for a 6'7" guy. I would say that Michael Jordan is coordinated and he is 6'6". LeBron James is coordinated and he is 6'8". There are many others who are over 6'4" and very coordinated.

[hello2007]

I was watching some random ama fight clips online and came across this one. I know we got some ref's in here so I was wondering what would be your input on this caution. It seems like a classic moment where the ref is screwing the fighter. Would you guys actually call the fighter on that and if so why. It seem's like the ref was making rules on the fly.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... d=34893476

[boxmel]

so I was wondering what would be your input on this caution.

She cautioned the boxer for pawing, or measuring, with his hand - twice.

It seems like a classic moment where the ref is screwing the fighter.

Please explain why. He didn't get a warning so how did he get classically screwed?

Would you guys actually call the fighter on that and if so why. It seem's like the ref was making rules on the fly.

Yes - it was a good call because it is a rule infraction. It also didn't cost the boxer anything - except, I would hope, he stopped pawing.

[hello2007]

I feel its screwing him over because what exactly is he doing illegal by keeping his arm like that.

[boxmel]

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. And, obviously, you don't like rules - tough. If the ref is doing his/her job, he/she will give cautions when necessary to keep a boxer from being disqualified. Most of our elite boxer will try a couple of infractions until they are cautioned a couple of times and then quit.

I think you need to familiarize yourself with the rules. Most amateur boxers include the rules in their style - at least the good ones do. If you can't change your style to conform with the amateur rules, maybe you shouldn't be an amateur boxer. Just my opinion, of course.

[hello2007]

he did it because it was most likely muscle memory. You know I still didn't get a answer to this. Which is why exactly aren't you allowed to do that.

I wonder how chris byrd got through the amateurs since that is his style, at least that how it seems from tv.

[boxmel]

he did it because it was most likely muscle memory.

Whatever that means.

You know I still didn't get a answer to this. Which is why exactly aren't you allowed to do that.

It is not considered "clean" boxing - the pros do it all the time; the amateurs do not. Your goal is to outpoint your opponent by boxing him or her - if you are "holding off" your opponent you are not only stopping your opponent from landing any punches, you, too, are not throwing. Rather than beating a dead horse, just believe me that it's a foul and best not done.

I wonder how chris byrd got through the amateurs since that is his style, at least that how it seems from tv.

Sigh. Chris didn't do this as an amateur ; pro style is different and you're allowed many more "amateur rule infractions," i.e., holding, hitting on the arms, rabbit punching, blah, blah.

I think you need to figure out exactly what kind of rules you are addressing - amateur or pro. We can answer questions about amateur rules on this forum.